Curbing your slave's drive to service

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thetammyjo -> Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 9:28:56 AM)
I read and hear alot about how hard it is to find a good submissive or a good slave. Anyone else here have a slightly opposite problem of a slave or submissive who tried to do too much? This raised in my mind today with Fox. He doesn't work today (its their off-season so it will be off and on work at the Center) so he picked me up after my own job interview this morning. He informed me that he must have slept wrong because his neck was hurting a lot after I mentioned his desire to get mummified and that we'd have time this afternoon. Ok so we need to evaluate the neck situation and that's cool. But then he tells me that he really needs to mow the lawn because he knows my yard is important to me. I just looked at him and said firmly but softly, "You know being my slave does not mean you give up the things you want or need. Being my slave does not mean you do things when you are injured or in pain." He turned his head as much as he could, winced and replied, "Yes, Mistress." It made me reflect. He does this a lot. He'll express a desire he has (which is difficult for him because it still feels improper to him at times) and then he'll find other things that need to be done or he'll cushion his desires with lots of devaluing it and refering to it being completely my decision Anyone else have similar experiences? Or are we just weird?

mixielicous -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 9:32:16 AM)
no i find my Master frequently taking my hands and sitting me down. He doesnt verbally say anything but i know by His actions, that He doesnt expect me to sacrifice myself 100% of the time, which i try to do. its nice b/c it makes Him feel warm to me.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 9:39:42 AM)
I've noted that a majority of submissives/slaves are perfectionists, driven to please and control freaks. They need validation, they need to feel important, they need to feel useful- and they need to do it ALL just right. I deal with it in my own self by realizing that it's my own ego pushing things- I'm not the only one who can get it done, I'm not the one who decides what's most important to get done, and I have value in myself no matter what, and I deserve to put myself first. As the Alanis Morissette song "that i would be good" goes: That I would be good even if i did nothing That I would be good even if i got the thumbs down That I would be good if I got and stayed sick That I would be good even if I gained ten pounds As long as I remind myself that it's ok to take a break, that I'm still me, that it's my own insecurities driving me to sacrifice myself and that it's not healthy, then I'm good. I still appreciate having those around me who will remind me of this when I forget it though.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 10:28:22 AM)
And I'll add that while my partner doesn't have quite the same drive to provide and perfection that I do, he does have a VERY hard time expressing his personal desires and caveating them to DEATH. I put a stop to this by pointing out his caveating when he does it, tell him to just say it, and then in a light hearted, sympathetic way, remind him of why he doesn't need to constantly protect his desires from me. There used to be a lot of long silent periods as he took the time in his mind to cancel out all his caveats (which helped him recognize just how much he was doing it) and finally get the courage to ask or say what he wanted. But these days it's much more likely to be him making fun of himself about his inner desire to caveat and deflect and fairly quickly get to the point. Progress is being made.

thetammyjo -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 12:08:57 PM)
I've tried to help Fox with this habit while at the same time making it clear that I will make the decisions about when we do certain things. I wonder if some of it is a desire on his part that I'd bring up these fetish interests of his on my own (which I sort of did this morning though he'd mentioned the desire back on Sunday when he got home). We click well in many ways but not in most of his fetishes -- he's very into certain objects and materials whereas I'm more into situations and relationships. I also wonder if subconsciously he might set things up in his life to not cooperate with his desires -- planning other things, discoverying other services he could do, other study he could do, etc. I know I do this like with my exercise program -- just as it is going well, I hurt my knee or something whack like that.

MistressMelissa -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 3:27:01 PM)
My girl has a habit of pushing herself past what is healthy for her. Due to medical issues she is not always ably to properly serve me and this bothers her. It also tends to cause her to push to hard and harm herself. Step 1 is I remind her that her first priority is to protect my property and that includes her. Step 2 is I understand how important it is for her to serve me and sometimes I have to find new aproaches that she can serve me and not hurt herself. An example of this is the addition of slaves to the house. Phoenix is a submissive and I well understand the difference. Since she knows what I want and how I want my house to function it was a logical choice to make my majordomo and have her supervise the slaves brought into my house. She trains them to my needs and unsures everything is up to my standard. She still serves me it's just in a different way. Step 3 is you can always just put your foot down and tell them you want to do what it is they need and thus remove the choice from them. Example: "I would rather mummify you than hear the lawn mower today. You can cut the grass another time when I'm not here." You have acknowledge his concerns and you have set the priority as is your right. Thus he is serving you and getting a need met. A creative mind and thinking outside the box to make all the pieces fit is what makes us mistress(master) of our houses. Melissa Mistress of Ds Haven www.dshaven.com

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 4:56:21 PM)
We've certainly been through this on our end. I consider it my job, as the Owner, to set the pace for service... not just in letting the servants know when I need something done, but also when I want them to take time for recreation or personal needs. We have one part-time servant who runs his own business and has outside responsibilities. We arranged times for him to come and tend things here, but on several occasions, demands of his work interfered with time scheduled here. For a few weeks, he blew off his work requirements, because he didn't want to tell us he was going to have to reschedule -- until I found out and took matters into my own hands. Now, when he hesitates between a work project, a project with his outside responsibilities, and a project here, I "assign" him to attend to the most pressing of his projects. Sometimes it is us, but more often, he's prevented from letting some aspect of his outside responsibilities slide just to be able to be in service here. Part of managing our servants comes with this need to protect them from themselves. It's one of the least glorified of the owners' tasks, but one of the most crucial. Good luck to you, and blessings for having a servant that you need to tell when -not- to work, instead of one you have to push for any little progress towards getting what needs to be done, done... it isn't discussed much, but is one of the marks of a core-deep servant. LZ

ArchangelMichael -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 6:23:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I've noted that a majority of submissives/slaves are perfectionists, driven to please and control freaks. They need validation, they need to feel important, they need to feel useful- and they need to do it ALL just right. You just described me in a nutshell. I think the control freak aspect of myself is why I have a Dominant side.

kisshou -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 7:28:38 PM)
hiya TammyJo, reading your post made me want to grrr in frustration and reminded me once again why I can never understand the dominant mind first you say you want Fox to also have his needs and desires met but when he drops hints or tells you about desires of his you decide when things will happen , then obviously you are not making things happen because you are wondering if he is not bringing it up again so that he can sorta top you from the bottom by making you bring it up this is something I have struggled with, with the Owner and it is really frustrating for the slave because you feel like no matter what you say or do it is the wrong thing since those fetish desires are his but you are not really into them, then it is not really being pleasing by desiring something your Owner doesn't desire but the thing is , you (the slave) really do desire it I hope this makes sense, I can't tell you what to do , but I sympathize with Fox over this dilemma it is the same thing with serving hurt, Fox does the stuff you don't like to do, so, even if he is hurt he still has to do it because otherwise you (the Owner) would have to do it, and you won't like doing it the Owner resolved this by ordering me to rest and stating that is what would please Him, but even after all this time He still has to order it directly because I never, never want to lose my place with him, that is probably how Fox feels too

MsIncognito -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 7:47:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressMelissa My girl has a habit of pushing herself past what is healthy for her. Due to medical issues she is not always ably to properly serve me and this bothers her. It also tends to cause her to push to hard and harm herself. Maybe she'd be better able to deal with her limitations if she didn't get the sense that she isn't able to serve you "properly" at times? If she has physical limitations that keep her from doing things "properly" (what does that mean, exactly?) then maybe letting her know that serving completely to the best of her ability is what counts, not that she do things "properly." Just a thought. </hijack>

Sinergy -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 7:52:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I've noted that a majority of submissives/slaves are perfectionists, driven to please and control freaks. They need validation, they need to feel important, they need to feel useful- and they need to do it ALL just right. I deal with it in my own self by realizing that it's my own ego pushing things- I'm not the only one who can get it done, I'm not the one who decides what's most important to get done, and I have value in myself no matter what, and I deserve to put myself first. As the Alanis Morissette song "that i would be good" goes: That I would be good even if i did nothing That I would be good even if i got the thumbs down That I would be good if I got and stayed sick That I would be good even if I gained ten pounds As long as I remind myself that it's ok to take a break, that I'm still me, that it's my own insecurities driving me to sacrifice myself and that it's not healthy, then I'm good. I still appreciate having those around me who will remind me of this when I forget it though. While I love all the things my submissive does for me, I want to point out that I am with her not because of what she does, but because of who she is. The clothes will get dirty. The bed will be unmade again. Dishes will need to be done. I will probably be horny tomorrow. But feeling her hand on my thigh and talking about mountains I used to backpack in as a child or politics or uncorrelated carbon dating with her is something that is priceless to me. I want to delve deep into her soul and experience the world through her eyes, as she does with me in her own way. Sinergy

Smythe -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/16/2006 8:51:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo I've tried to help Fox with this habit while at the same time making it clear that I will make the decisions about when we do certain things. I wonder if some of it is a desire on his part that I'd bring up these fetish interests of his on my own (which I sort of did this morning though he'd mentioned the desire back on Sunday when he got home). We click well in many ways but not in most of his fetishes -- he's very into certain objects and materials whereas I'm more into situations and relationships. I also wonder if subconsciously he might set things up in his life to not cooperate with his desires -- planning other things, discoverying other services he could do, other study he could do, etc. I know I do this like with my exercise program -- just as it is going well, I hurt my knee or something whack like that. TammyJo, From reading you previously, I know that communication is not a problem in your household, and just like most things with you and yours, this has been thoroughly and openly discussed. I would suggest bypassing a lot of the relational complications by instituting a system. For example, Fox could write down all the fetishy things you have agreed that you might try with him and put them in a hat. Tell him that once a week, or month, or day or whatever you want, you will choose an activity from the hat and engage in that with him. you could do it randomly, or make it a reward for good service. This takes the choice away from him and whatever guilt he might be feeling about your indulging his fetishes. Then he will not feel that he needs to cut the grass in order to get wrapped in saran wrap. And you stay in control. Smythe

juliaoceania -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/17/2006 11:20:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I've noted that a majority of submissives/slaves are perfectionists, driven to please and control freaks. They need validation, they need to feel important, they need to feel useful- and they need to do it ALL just right. I deal with it in my own self by realizing that it's my own ego pushing things- I'm not the only one who can get it done, I'm not the one who decides what's most important to get done, and I have value in myself no matter what, and I deserve to put myself first. As the Alanis Morissette song "that i would be good" goes: That I would be good even if i did nothing That I would be good even if i got the thumbs down That I would be good if I got and stayed sick That I would be good even if I gained ten pounds As long as I remind myself that it's ok to take a break, that I'm still me, that it's my own insecurities driving me to sacrifice myself and that it's not healthy, then I'm good. I still appreciate having those around me who will remind me of this when I forget it though. While I love all the things my submissive does for me, I want to point out that I am with her not because of what she does, but because of who she is. The clothes will get dirty. The bed will be unmade again. Dishes will need to be done. I will probably be horny tomorrow. But feeling her hand on my thigh and talking about mountains I used to backpack in as a child or politics or uncorrelated carbon dating with her is something that is priceless to me. I want to delve deep into her soul and experience the world through her eyes, as she does with me in her own way. Sinergy Whomever ends up being your sub is indeed a very lucky lady...smiles

thetammyjo -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/17/2006 11:26:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kisshou hiya TammyJo, reading your post made me want to grrr in frustration and reminded me once again why I can never understand the dominant mind first you say you want Fox to also have his needs and desires met but when he drops hints or tells you about desires of his you decide when things will happen , then obviously you are not making things happen because you are wondering if he is not bringing it up again so that he can sorta top you from the bottom by making you bring it up this is something I have struggled with, with the Owner and it is really frustrating for the slave because you feel like no matter what you say or do it is the wrong thing since those fetish desires are his but you are not really into them, then it is not really being pleasing by desiring something your Owner doesn't desire but the thing is , you (the slave) really do desire it I hope this makes sense, I can't tell you what to do , but I sympathize with Fox over this dilemma it is the same thing with serving hurt, Fox does the stuff you don't like to do, so, even if he is hurt he still has to do it because otherwise you (the Owner) would have to do it, and you won't like doing it the Owner resolved this by ordering me to rest and stating that is what would please Him, but even after all this time He still has to order it directly because I never, never want to lose my place with him, that is probably how Fox feels too I have to decide when to do things cause he may have a desire when he needs to go to work or when we have gaming in 20 minutes or I have to get to work. He gives me the information and I have to exercise my authority but deciding when and how to to use that information. It is difficult in a poly house to make plans sometimes but its my job as the owner and dominant in the house to manage all this stuff. I asked him last night when his neck was still hurting (I made him rest and rubbed his neck) when he had to work this week. Then I said "Don't you dare schedule anything beyond what you have, boy, cause we are doing a mummification before the week ends. Got it?"'

thetammyjo -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/17/2006 11:30:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smythe quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo I've tried to help Fox with this habit while at the same time making it clear that I will make the decisions about when we do certain things. I wonder if some of it is a desire on his part that I'd bring up these fetish interests of his on my own (which I sort of did this morning though he'd mentioned the desire back on Sunday when he got home). We click well in many ways but not in most of his fetishes -- he's very into certain objects and materials whereas I'm more into situations and relationships. I also wonder if subconsciously he might set things up in his life to not cooperate with his desires -- planning other things, discoverying other services he could do, other study he could do, etc. I know I do this like with my exercise program -- just as it is going well, I hurt my knee or something whack like that. TammyJo, From reading you previously, I know that communication is not a problem in your household, and just like most things with you and yours, this has been thoroughly and openly discussed. I would suggest bypassing a lot of the relational complications by instituting a system. For example, Fox could write down all the fetishy things you have agreed that you might try with him and put them in a hat. Tell him that once a week, or month, or day or whatever you want, you will choose an activity from the hat and engage in that with him. you could do it randomly, or make it a reward for good service. This takes the choice away from him and whatever guilt he might be feeling about your indulging his fetishes. Then he will not feel that he needs to cut the grass in order to get wrapped in saran wrap. And you stay in control. Smythe Interesting idea. Thank you, Smythe. I really like that Fox is such a good servant but sometimes he, oh, its hard to explain, but having a perfectionist and self-sacrificer is better than the lazy type of slave by far at least for me.

kisshou -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/20/2006 5:59:57 PM)
I used to work so hard making things perfect that when the Owner got home, I would be wiped out. Through constant reinforcement he has me trained not to do that anymore, he explained to me that he would rather have things less perfect but have me full of energy still. You are one of the Dominant people on here I respect alot so I was hoping you would adress what I bought up a slave supressing a desire if it is not a desire an Owner shares. It can be very confusing for a slave to understand if an Owner wants you to suppress those desires or not.

scratchingpost -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/20/2006 6:47:34 PM)
This is to help the slave understand the Dominant mentality a little better Like aforementioned, yes it is pleasing to be served, HOWEVER it is more pleasing to keep My property in the best working order possible. If a slave is not kept well how will they be able to trust enough to surrender their complete power to You? If a slave is not kept well how will they be able to trust enough to obey all You wish to do to them expecially if it is something they are very fearful of? If a slave is not kept well how will they be able to truly serve Your needs? one cannot serve broken If a slave is damaged and broken how will they be able to please Your desires? In the OP the slave knows how the Dominant is about her lawn. Her lawn is imporant to Her it is Her property...Suppose in taking care of that lawn She negleted to pull a weed? what would result? more weeds causing more damage to the lawn. slave is damaged. if untreated (emotionally or physically) what would the end result be? Think of the care She puts in the lawn....something that if died can be reseeded and started again...can the slave be so easily replaced? no of course not. I am also farily certain that in order to have someone serve You, You have to care about them want them desire them on some level....a level a bit higher than wanting a lawn. I am a bit annoyed at My toy right now, he is ill. he works long hours, goes to school, as it is has barely time to serve Me (I encourage his going to school and working as I know it is deeply important to him) but, he forgets to care for himself and that makes it now impossible for Me to see and enjoy him. My boy makes Me smile and laugh and feel good, so I am deprived of that because it is replaced with worry that he is alright because he is ill. his failing to care for his basic needs (getting enough rest eating healthy (side note tangent can anyone tell Me if veggies are a hard limit that should be respected if there are no allergies to them and its a case of "but i dont like them"?) and maintaining his body which belongs to Me caused him to become run down tired and ill. How does that serve Me? My boy knows, My first priority is to keep him emotionally and physically well. I cannot do so if he doesnt comply, I care for what is Mine as the OP so obviously does as does a good Owner of any piece of property be it a lawn a car or a slave. If You take care of what is valuable and treasured it will remain for a long long time to come, If You do not and neglect it, it will be destroyed and You wont have it anymore and how could a caring dominant ever be served or happy and pleased with that?

MistressMelissa -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/20/2006 7:31:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito Maybe she'd be better able to deal with her limitations if she didn't get the sense that she isn't able to serve you "properly" at times? If she has physical limitations that keep her from doing things "properly" (what does that mean, exactly?) then maybe letting her know that serving completely to the best of her ability is what counts, not that she do things "properly." Just a thought. </hijack> Greetings, My girl suffers from a laundry list of physical handicaps ranging from carpal tunnel in each hand which due to server asthma and an allergy to any metal prevents them from doing surgery to repair her hands and thus the inability at times to hold a cup, dish or pot and the ability for detail finger work like sewing or picking up something small. She also has dizzy spells and has blacked out, which the doctors can't figure out the cause With only 38% lung capacity (up from 33%) combined with asthma she is often gasping for breath walking across my house. She is unable to shop without use of a power cart to get her around the store. Since she is no longer able to keep up with the house work and the daily running of the house she is no longer able to serve me properly, her words not mine. Her loyalty and desire to serve is priceless. She still has the ability to manage my house and teach others what they need to know to be of service. So while she condemns herself for what she can not do, I strive to find other ways in which she can be of service to me. Recently she rearranged my bedroom and just about crippled herself for the next three days. Her answer was, "since I had to clean under the bed I might as well just rearrange the funiture while I was at it". MelissaMistress of Ds Havenwww.dshaven.com

PhoenixLM -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/20/2006 7:35:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito quote: ORIGINAL: MistressMelissa My girl has a habit of pushing herself past what is healthy for her. Due to medical issues she is not always ably to properly serve me and this bothers her. It also tends to cause her to push to hard and harm herself. Maybe she'd be better able to deal with her limitations if she didn't get the sense that she isn't able to serve you "properly" at times? If she has physical limitations that keep her from doing things "properly" (what does that mean, exactly?) then maybe letting her know that serving completely to the best of her ability is what counts, not that she do things "properly." Just a thought. </hijack> Please understand that it is not my Mistress' standards but mine, my training, and my concept of properly serving.

thetammyjo -> RE: Curbing your slave's drive to service (5/20/2006 9:16:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kisshou You are one of the Dominant people on here I respect alot so I was hoping you would adress what I bought up a slave supressing a desire if it is not a desire an Owner shares. It can be very confusing for a slave to understand if an Owner wants you to suppress those desires or not. I have never, ever told Fox to surpress any of his desires. In fact, during training I insist that folks tell me their desires and needs as thoroughly as possible and multiple times. They are amazed when I use something from these descriptions -- of course, I'll use them. I want my slave happy but I also want it to be in my own way, my own style, so I mix up stuff. However this doesn't mean that he or another submissive or slave will be comfortable expressing said desires or even needs. There have been many times when Fox has claimed he didn't need bondage or latex or rubber to be happy with me. Note I said "claimed" cause I think that's BS. Telling him that its BS though is very likely to make him defensive. So I find forcing the scheduling of his desires is necessary and once I'd done this he relaxes into the event (be it in an hour or a few days). So I have a return question: Why do sme submissives and some slaves who are in relationships where their desires and needs are valued still hold back on expressing them? Fox still says after 6.5 years that it doesn't feel "right" to him to tell me or ask me. He'll do things like come home with more plastic wrap and casually let me see it. That's so frustrating to me cause it makes me want to grab the stuff, shove it in his and scream "Just say it!"... but I don't follow my negative emotions (or at least I try not to).

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