Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me?

Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/6/2011 9:11:56 PM)
Problem: we're spending more than we take in. Difficulty: GOP states that anything raising taxes, including closing off favoritist tax loopholes that are obviously ridiculous, is off the table. Cantor's solution: The tax loopholes can be closed but only if taxes are cut elsewhere. In other words, he's willing to "give" on taxes as long as there is no benefit whatsoever to doing so. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/06/cantor-opens-the-door-to-possible-compromise-in-debt-limit-talks/ This has to be the lamest compromise proposal I've ever heard.

Lucylastic -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/6/2011 9:17:30 PM)
And then people wonder why Obama changes his tone flexibility my rear end That man is a waste of meat.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/6/2011 10:00:03 PM)
You are mischaracterizing it as "no benefit". If you get the government engineering out of a tax code that favors certain industries over others without draining more money out of private economy it is a tremendous benefit.

Termyn8or -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/6/2011 10:10:12 PM)
FR "Nobody does nothin for nobody but emself" - Bella, the "boss" on Star Trek TOS - "Piece Of The Action", circa 1969. Spock pointed out that he was employing a double negative. I see the relevance, does anyone else ? T^T

DarkSteven -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 5:12:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy You are mischaracterizing it as "no benefit". If you get the government engineering out of a tax code that favors certain industries over others without draining more money out of private economy it is a tremendous benefit. But the original idea is to reduce the debt. Cantor's proposal will reduce "government engineering of the tax code" (a horrible ungainly term that I wish there was a simple term for) but then at the same time will impose more tax cuts when that is counter to the stated goal. Revenue neutral. This whole exercise is ridiculous. The Republicans are trumpeting all the stuff that's off the table and posturing. I can't figure out what the Dems are doing. Any private sector business would have spent three hours on the whole mess, and would have simply made across the board spending cuts and maybe a 5%-10% tax hike, and followed up with a mandate to the GAO to get serious about fraud, waste, and abuse. Instead, we get months of partisan speeches, dire prognostications of just how much doom we'll have when we default, and a general sense that if our government leads us out of this it'll be because they're miracle workers, not because it's not that hard a problem in the first place.

Owner59 -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 5:17:26 AM)
It`s Grover and "THE PLEDGE".... They are so fuck`n scared of it and him.They are afraid to go against the high priest for they will be branded with the scarlet letter, "T". Annie-hoo, I thought Cantor quit,walked away for the negotiations,wimped out,etc.How he`s snipping from outside? WHAT AN ASS! Anyone looking for a moment will see Cantor`s talking gibberish. The bottom line is that he doesn`t want to use any money saved from the ruinous bush tax cuts to reduce the deficit. So much for GOP sincerity on lowering the deficit,wise financial stewardship,responsible behavior,etc. I don`t think he or most of his ilk are serious about the deficit despite all their talk and bluster on the subject.It`s all bushist.<punn intended> There is an awful image of the future they have where "taxes went up" under their watch. Those words ,in that order, frighten the bejesus out of`m.It`s as if death itself was standing there with it`s scythe and roll book,looking at them. Grover doesn`t give a fuck about them. He`s already said that anyone who allows any tax increase of any kind at all,INCLUDING the ending of a tax break,will be on his shit list. The members are afraid for their own frick`n jobs.It has nothing to do with what`s best for the nation. Grover`s gonna shun theme and say bad things about them and give money to their opponents,etc.......GOD FORBID. I`m mean GROVER forbid.[:D]

DomKen -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 6:45:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Problem: we're spending more than we take in. Difficulty: GOP states that anything raising taxes, including closing off favoritist tax loopholes that are obviously ridiculous, is off the table. Cantor's solution: The tax loopholes can be closed but only if taxes are cut elsewhere. In other words, he's willing to "give" on taxes as long as there is no benefit whatsoever to doing so. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/06/cantor-opens-the-door-to-possible-compromise-in-debt-limit-talks/ This has to be the lamest compromise proposal I've ever heard. This is what Gorver Norquist demands and Cantor, and all other senior GOP leaders, has signed his pledge.

DarkSteven -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 6:49:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen This is what Gorver Norquist demands and Cantor, and all other senior GOP leaders, has signed his pledge. My, how times have changed. When JFK ran, there were concerns that as a Catholic, he would represent the Pope and his church over the American people. Amazing that the entire GOP candidacy kowtows to Norquist and nobody seems to care about them worrying about his opinion more than the American people's.

DomKen -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 6:52:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen This is what Gorver Norquist demands and Cantor, and all other senior GOP leaders, has signed his pledge. My, how times have changed. When JFK ran, there were concerns that as a Catholic, he would represent the Pope and his church over the American people. Amazing that the entire GOP candidacy kowtows to Norquist and nobody seems to care about them worrying about his opinion more than the American people's. Plenty of people care. They're called liberals.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 7:03:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy You are mischaracterizing it as "no benefit". If you get the government engineering out of a tax code that favors certain industries over others without draining more money out of private economy it is a tremendous benefit. But the original idea is to reduce the debt. Cantor's proposal will reduce "government engineering of the tax code" (a horrible ungainly term that I wish there was a simple term for) but then at the same time will impose more tax cuts when that is counter to the stated goal. Revenue neutral. This whole exercise is ridiculous. The Republicans are trumpeting all the stuff that's off the table and posturing. I can't figure out what the Dems are doing. Any private sector business would have spent three hours on the whole mess, and would have simply made across the board spending cuts and maybe a 5%-10% tax hike, and followed up with a mandate to the GAO to get serious about fraud, waste, and abuse. Instead, we get months of partisan speeches, dire prognostications of just how much doom we'll have when we default, and a general sense that if our government leads us out of this it'll be because they're miracle workers, not because it's not that hard a problem in the first place. Unfortunately it is much harder than you seem to think it is. Spending cuts mean less borrowing, not less money immediately coming out of the private sector economy. Tax hikes drain more money out of the private sector economy. Even the Democrats admitted that recession (and if you dont think we are still in a recession their statistics have really clouded your mind) is not the time to raise taxes. Closing tax preferences (they arent loopholes, per se, despite the loose language of even some of the GOP) and cutting tax rates a commensurate amount may be revenue neutral in the short term, but will result in growth in the most profitable businesses instead of the boondoggles that the government wants to piss money away on. That raises revenue in the mid to long term. Unfortunately I doubt that Obama will give up tax preferences for his pets such as "green jobs". As far as the posturing and doom over "Default" goes, that is the same nonsense that got us TARP and the stimulus. They think it gives them cover and the ability to say "it could have been much worse if we didnt act" when their programs are abject failures. So far Ryan/Cantor refuse to play that game. Obama claims he will entertain a major restructuring of fiscal policy, including cuts in entitlements. We'll see.

DarkSteven -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 7:10:37 AM)
That to me is EXACTLY what concerns me. That opposition to this bullshit is done for ideological reasons only. Not for principle. The idea of one man demanding that the US process should bend to his will should be opposed by EVERYONE. The fact that not a single GOP candidate, even the ones that refused to sign, did not take a stance and say that their job is to represent the American people and be damned with what Norquist wants, is stunning. Romney was in the perfect position to state that he will not put the Mormon church's interests above America (which he did) and then expand that to include Norquist. I wish he had... Edited to add: This post was in response to Domken.

Owner59 -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 7:42:47 AM)
The ONLY ones claiming that there won`t be an economic turn-down are the Grover minions. For one,US treasuries will drop in value leading to a sell off,no longer making them a prefered investment. And our credit rating(yes folks,the USA actually has a credit rating)will drop to 'D'. It`ll cost us more to borrow the money we already borrow(mostly from the Saudis and Chi-coms,our frenenmies)so we`ll get less for our money. This reminds me of a kid with a loaded pistol,waving it around playing make pretend,with everyone else worried. Thinking default is meaningless, playing make pretend, is just as deadly to one`s finances or the nation`s.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 8:12:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The ONLY ones claiming that there won`t be an economic turn-down are the Grover minions. For one,US treasuries will drop in value leading to a sell off,no longer making them a prefered investment. And our credit rating(yes folks,the USA actually has a credit rating)will drop to 'D'. It`ll cost us more to borrow the money we already borrow(mostly from the Saudis and Chi-coms,our frenenmies)so we`ll get less for our money. This reminds me of a kid with a loaded pistol,waving it around playing make pretend,with everyone else worried. Thinking default is meaningless, playing make pretend, is just as deadly to one`s finances or the nation`s. Default isnt meaningless...default will never happen, which renders it less than meaningless, its moot.

Owner59 -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 8:29:46 AM)
[sm=abducted.gif] Will you show us all the super secrete Grover cult handshake?[:D]

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 8:55:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 [sm=abducted.gif] Will you show us all the super secrete Grover cult handshake?[:D] Will you show us the secret Jackson White cleft palate french kiss?

SternSkipper -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 9:15:29 AM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The ONLY ones claiming that there won`t be an economic turn-down are the Grover minions. For one,US treasuries will drop in value leading to a sell off,no longer making them a prefered investment. And our credit rating(yes folks,the USA actually has a credit rating)will drop to 'D'. It`ll cost us more to borrow the money we already borrow(mostly from the Saudis and Chi-coms,our frenenmies)so we`ll get less for our money. This reminds me of a kid with a loaded pistol,waving it around playing make pretend,with everyone else worried. Thinking default is meaningless, playing make pretend, is just as deadly to one`s finances or the nation`s. WillBe Default isnt meaningless...default will never happen, which renders it less than meaningless, its moot. WillBe's right, the GOP has never been anything but a bluff that fools the intellectually vulnerable in our society. Which therefore PROVES all the points you made. Owner ... I think you should thank WillBe

SternSkipper -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 9:20:57 AM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Will you show us all the super secrete Grover cult handshake? Will you show us the secret Jackson White cleft palate french kiss? You just don't want to admit the pube-Lickens use 'docking' as a greeting. [image]local://upfiles/18637/95CE0AA2BB914C8B8A4FCD150888518C.gif[/image]

Owner59 -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 9:34:49 AM)
The JW`s are everything wilbi and his ilk are about. Anti-government nuts who carry firearms who occationally get into it with park rangers(Ie the heavey hand of gubment,ZOG,the feds,etc.)who live outside of normal society in the mountains.They got a guy with w/ a shotgun sit`n at the road leading to their property. These are the things cons are all about and fight for. Right? lol There`s a reason wilbi knows about the JWs,tho most folks around here don`t.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 10:35:55 AM)
Steven, most of it is a lot of political theater. Neither side has a solution they think will really work, so they are positioning things in the hopes that when failure comes, it is blamed on the other side. Now that right there is the horrible thing we, as citizens, have allowed and perpetuate.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Can someone explain Cantor's stand to me? (7/7/2011 11:34:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper quote: quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The ONLY ones claiming that there won`t be an economic turn-down are the Grover minions. For one,US treasuries will drop in value leading to a sell off,no longer making them a prefered investment. And our credit rating(yes folks,the USA actually has a credit rating)will drop to 'D'. It`ll cost us more to borrow the money we already borrow(mostly from the Saudis and Chi-coms,our frenenmies)so we`ll get less for our money. This reminds me of a kid with a loaded pistol,waving it around playing make pretend,with everyone else worried. Thinking default is meaningless, playing make pretend, is just as deadly to one`s finances or the nation`s. WillBe Default isnt meaningless...default will never happen, which renders it less than meaningless, its moot. WillBe's right, the GOP has never been anything but a bluff that fools the intellectually vulnerable in our society. Which therefore PROVES all the points you made. Owner ... I think you should thank WillBe You cant rewrite history SS. TARP/Stimulus and "Default" are Dem crying points, not GOP.

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