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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/10/2011 5:03:51 AM   
RapierFugue


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Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

I don't believe it has to be that way though, at least not among the intelligent and scientific ... I think the true challenges are the goals we all want to reach, and for as long as we think small, and local, and parochial, then that's all we'll ever be, as a species.


You make an excellent point... As it stands now, there are many aspects of EVERY NASA mission that our local MIT Astrophysics Department includes the student population in contributing to the missions in the form of supportive research and experiment design that will likely be less, if not gone altogether from curriculum ... hopefully Mars will pick up the slack. But this going into private hands will only spur advancement along profitable avenues besides low orbit mobility and satellite launch and repair becoming a private competitive matter, I doubt there's much more we'll gain. So we NEED to reach further and we NEED to continue supporting NASA. At this critical point in time, we DON'T want to simply give up on space exploration. They keep talking about investing in the future from both sides of the aisle. I hope they get that


I honestly believe we won't get anywhere as a species until we stop thinking in local terms, and start thinking as a planet.

Obviously, since I'm not entirely naive, I feel the chances of that happening are pretty slim. But what are the alternatives? No one nation can hope to make the next significant jump on its own; as I understand it the costs are simply too high. So if one nation can't do it, might not a consortium of nations make the attempt? I.e. we stop NASA, we stop the ESA, and Russia & China also, and throw everything into one large-scale, better-funded organisation, managed by a pan-national group?

Or maybe I am too naive :) That's one pretty long-term pipe dream ... but then again, not 2 decades before the Russians sent a man into space, and the US put a man on the moon, most scientists believed sustained space flight of any flavour was impossible, due to the energy requirements to lift man out of orbit (when all they had were petrol-driven engines, and fairly duff ones too).

I also agree entirely that allow private business to run with this on its own will only increase problems, not solve them; companies are simply too short-term in their thinking, too conservative in their outlook (as well as being too defensive of their own proprietary interests) to effectively manage a space programme, regardless of the nation the company looks to.

Roll on Star Fleet ;)

<cue Brian May guitars>

(in reply to SternSkipper)
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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/10/2011 8:43:28 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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Ah, no worries Zefram will be around soon

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to RapierFugue)
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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/10/2011 2:14:07 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I remember back when the shuttle mission first started, there was an odd alternative being developed in Britain, a space vehicle that used air breathing engines to attain space, the HOTOL

I often wonder what happened to that project after it was kicked around various corporations and finally I believe ended up being sold or given to the Japanese.


HOTOL had huge center of drag issues that unfortunately could not be defeated without completely fucking aerodynamics. It was a nice idea. Pretty ship and all. But I can't believe it got as far as it did before they discovered their problems.



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Tinfoilers Swallow


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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/10/2011 2:21:14 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

I honestly believe we won't get anywhere as a species until we stop thinking in local terms, and start thinking as a planet.

Obviously, since I'm not entirely naive, I feel the chances of that happening are pretty slim. But what are the alternatives? No one nation can hope to make the next significant jump on its own; as I understand it the costs are simply too high. So if one nation can't do it, might not a consortium of nations make the attempt? I.e. we stop NASA, we stop the ESA, and Russia & China also, and throw everything into one large-scale, better-funded organisation, managed by a pan-national group?


Oh, I actually believe that NASA, it's reaching out to other nations after the moon mission and it's PERMANENT Spirit of sharing all it learns has brought the world much close to a community(EXCEPT FOR THE ALIEN BASES ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON!!!!!!! .... Sorry ... Just had to have an Art bell comedy moment).
   There'll be competition for a long time. And there seems to be a looming issue of other countries wanting possible call lunar policy obsolete and actually use the US's downtime to race there and establish territory. So I think it's really important at this time more than any to keep our hands in.
    Basically ANYBODY who doesn't think man's destiny lies well beyond this planet is kidding themselves.



_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/11/2011 12:43:48 AM   
Termyn8or


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Not having a viable replacement for the space shuttles is a step backward. This government is too goddamn nasty, this should have gone alot further. We got to the moon first, but Russia had the first artificial satellite, during a cold war it just wasn't going to work out well.

It's almost a foregone conclusion that to reach Mars, the vehicle will have to be built in space, or at least assembled there. Mars has less gravity than Earth, so this means quite a bit less power will be required. Like the moonshot, escaping the Earth's gravity is the biggest hurdle. It was a piece of cake to take off from the moon in compare. What's more, if the vehicle doesn't land on Earth afterward, it could likely be refueled and used again. This would require some sort of shuttle.

It doesn't matter because someone is going to do it. Someone has to maintain and repair satellites, however this seems like just another thing to be outsourced. If anyone thinks the private sector or other countries are going to do this for free, the world is full of oceanfront property. In most cases it is cheapest to do things one's self rather than pay someone else.

In some ways I consider our space superiority to be a national resource, another which has been squandered by shortsightedness. We invented all kinds of things that we don't make anymore, the shuttles are just another one. It's a damn shame.

I looked real quick so I'm not sure of the accuracy, but it seems a few years ago NASA's budget was about $7 billion. Billion not trillion. It surprised me a bit to find it so low so I don't really trust that figure, but for sake of argument, how much was the bank bailout again ? How about Iraq 2 ? How much do we pay these fuckups in congress ? Well let's see, $160,000 a year times 535.........plus benefits you can't even buy at any price.

Which does the country more good ? Much technology was developed by or for the space program and a bunch of it is used in industry now, wherever that is. Many products were touted as using space age technology. Products made here for the most part.

So they took a bunch of supplies to the space station, who is going to do it next time ?

When I was a kid I actually sat in a space capsule. It was fascinating to say the least. If they let people actually sit in the retired space shuttle, I don't think I'll bother to go, it just wouldn't be the same.

T^T

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 25
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