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Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 6:01:37 AM

DarkSteven

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http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/07/10/pakistan.us/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The US ain't gonna release it until Pakistan starts working with us. Wonder what'll happen.

WAY overdue in my opinion. If they won't be an ally, why should we shell out?

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 6:54:19 AM

Anaxagoras

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Its a difficult situation. The US needs some help from Pakistan with the war. Clearly Pakistan is acting contemptuously whilst taking the aid so US criticism is warranted but if the US plays some hard ball it may just alienate Pakistan completely.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 7:13:33 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/07/10/pakistan.us/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The US ain't gonna release it until Pakistan starts working with us. Wonder what'll happen.

WAY overdue in my opinion. If they won't be an ally, why should we shell out?

Our foreign aid to Pak is believed by many to be the real basis of virtually their entire economy.

Risky bet but one worth taking. The real concern is not for Pakistan or their problems but for their nukes. We just do not want to see a jihadist military take over that could threaten any use.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 3

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 8:45:03 AM

Owner59

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Where`s rich and lucky to voice the Paki-outrage?

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 1:13:37 PM

willbeurdaddy

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unfortunately I think its only a portion of the scheduled aid, not all of it.

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 2:20:55 PM

Aneirin

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I feel there is an element in Pakistan that wants to go to war with the West, perhaps emulate the martyrs in the country next door, as there is a religious madness sweeping the world at this time, a suicidal madness that seems beyond reason.

Perhaps it is a symptom of over population, nature instilling a suicidal mentality into humankind to thin the race out a bit.

So, America's actions I do believe will perhaps tip the looney tunes in that country over the edge, but I think they were looking for that and could do little whilst the bribes were rolling in, those in receipt of the bribes were unconvinced by the call to arms, which could say religion can be bought.

Perhaps there will be a scrap in Pakistan between the suicidal religious murderers and the more moderate.

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 2:33:46 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

unfortunately I think its only a portion of the scheduled aid, not all of it.

Yep. But it's a start.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 4:25:18 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I feel there is an element in Pakistan that wants to go to war with the West, perhaps emulate the martyrs in the country next door, as there is a religious madness sweeping the world at this time, a suicidal madness that seems beyond reason.

Perhaps it is a symptom of over population, nature instilling a suicidal mentality into humankind to thin the race out a bit.

So, America's actions I do believe will perhaps tip the looney tunes in that country over the edge, but I think they were looking for that and could do little whilst the bribes were rolling in, those in receipt of the bribes were unconvinced by the call to arms, which could say religion can be bought.

Perhaps there will be a scrap in Pakistan between the suicidal religious murderers and the more moderate.

They like most societies and ours too, has moderates and apolitical types as well as radical, extreme elements.The hot heads, aching for war and talking shit.

Those two,or three factions vie for power and influence just like in any other nation.To throw them together as one monolithic POV is to simplistic.

I think President Obama is playing to the moderates while trying to not light a fire under the radical conservatives there

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/11/2011 4:27:11 PM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 4:39:16 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

unfortunately I think its only a portion of the scheduled aid, not all of it.

Its a third of it. This is a large enough some to make Pakistan think twice. I think witholding all of it would harm US efforts to destroy AQ operating in Pakistan.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 9

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/11/2011 8:18:18 PM

rawtape

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
The US ain't gonna release it until Pakistan starts working with us. Wonder what'll happen.
WAY overdue in my opinion. If they won't be an ally, why should we shell out?

Let me preface this by saying that I am not the biggest fan of Pakistan, what with having between 1-3 million of my countrymen slaughtered by their armed forces during the 1971 war. That said, how one views this decision to withhold aid depends on one's notions of the US role in Asia.

I think it will just confirm their (the Pakistanis') opinion of the US as an unreliable ally and drive them to seek further support from China (which has already built a strategic deep sea port in Pakistani territory at the apex of the Arabian Sea and at the entrance of the Persian Gulf, and is willing to sell Pakistan the J-20, their 5th generation stealth fighter). It is also quite possible that this escalating tit-for-tat game (recall that the Pakistanis withdrew the visas of numerous US agents in Pakistan, and this withdrawal of aid is partly a response to that) will also have repercussions for American troops in Afghanistan (transit for the bulk of the supplies is through Pakistan). Note that if the Pakistani government were to play that card, it would also go over well with their civilian population, who see the US as favouring India, and have not been overly happy with what they viewed as US encroachment on their sovereignty.

So I see this ultimately as a loss of influence of the US in South Asia, with a concomitant increase of that of China. Hardball is effective when one has someone cornered and at a serious disadvantage -- which is not quite the case with Pakistan which has been in this situation previously (the aid package was not that large in the past either) and which has another potential ally in the wings eager to woo them.

Now, I personally don't see this as a poor decision on the part of the current US administration. Given the current state of the economy, the US would be hard put not to retrench. Moreover, the mood of the populace (according to recent polls) has been turning more and more isolationist. And, unlike some other posters, I am not overly concerned about how changes in the Pakistani regime might affect the role of their nuclear weapons. Governments (as opposed to non-state actors) tend to be rational and, except for the US, all other countries possessing nuclear weapons have used them only as deterrents.

But I can understand others not being too happy about ceding ground to China.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 10

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 12:28:33 AM

tweakabelle

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As always it seems there's one issue left unspoken - the status of Kashmir - which provides a key to understanding Pakistani behaviour.

Pakistani aspirations in relation to Kashmir underwrite its meddling in Afghanistan, and its close relations with the (Afghani) Taliban. They have dominated its relations with its bigger and more influential neighbour India and been the cause of several major wars between the two. It is the reason for Pakistan's arming or and support for Kashmiri terrorists. This includes those who launched the vile attack on Mumbai not so long ago. (One of the key organisers of this attack lives openly under Pakistani police protection in Lahore.) A further complication is Chinese interest as rawtape has outlined. It might be recalled by some that China and India fought a brief war in Ladakh, (a province of Kashmir) in the 60s.

The US would also do well to recognise the extent of suffering caused by terrorism in Pakistan. Thousands have died and many thousands have been seriously wounded, injured or displaced by internal terrorism in Pakistan. Pakistanis aren't any more fond of terrorists than any one else.

I don't pretend to understand the Kashmiri situation in enough depth to suggest a possible resolution. It complex, with multiple players and multiple interests involved. However, if Americans wish to have a reliable ally there, one that doesn't play a duplicitous game, and simultaneously minimise Chinese advances and influence, this key aspect of Pakistani policy needs to be recognised and somehow accommodated.

Currently Pakistan is falling apart in front of our eyes. A failed State there is in no one's interests.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/12/2011 12:31:44 AM >

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 6:27:26 AM

masternoname

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sounds good to me

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 7:35:31 AM

slvemike4u

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Please explain to the class why it"sounds good to me"....yanno actually put some effort into a damm post for once!

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RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 5:50:10 PM

masternoname

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Do you feel the UK's actions have had any effect on the rise in terrorism?

quote:

So, America's actions I do believe will perhaps tip the looney tunes in that country over the edge, but I think they were looking for that and could do little whilst the bribes were rolling in, those in receipt of the bribes were unconvinced by the call to arms, which could say religion can be bought

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 14

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 5:54:12 PM

masternoname

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You mean like you did in this example?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Please explain to the class why it"sounds good to me"....yanno actually put some effort into a damm post for once!

But since you asked so nicely I said "sounds good to me" because I read the article and I think it's a good idea to let them know we mean what we say.

now are you going to comment on the article or just continue to troll?

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 15

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 6:05:27 PM

slvemike4u

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I will continue to do whatever the fuck I choose to do.....and I will not ask a "by your leave" of anyone here.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to masternoname)

Post #: 16

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 6:07:31 PM

masternoname

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Typical liberal...do what I say not what I do

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I will continue to do whatever the fuck I choose to do.....and I will not ask a "by your leave" of anyone here.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 17

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 6:11:57 PM

Owner59

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A troll,..... with good hair<jealous>

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Post #: 18

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 6:15:56 PM

slvemike4u

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Owner I will need a clarification...which troll were you referring too...masternoname......or myself.I do happen to have a great ,full and curly head of hair......but I am not sure that one can tell that with my jack Daniels avatar

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 19

RE: Pakistan's aid is being held back. - 7/12/2011 10:38:49 PM

Musicmystery

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The key here is nuclear arms.

If they didn't have 'em, we wouldn't much care.

But they do.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 20

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