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RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 11:30:12 AM   
imperatrixx


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Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That is crap...a good portion of those killed in the trade center were European nationals...Terrorism has not been an exclusive American problem yet we are doing the majority of fighting for others.

Butch


It's more of a problem in Israel, and they get a lot of guns from the US...as far as other countries being attacked...did you ever think that maybe they made a conscious choice not to make war with a foreign power in retaliation?

In fact I'd wager some of those countries would be happier if America didn't do the majority of fighting "for" them, especially in Iraq.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 11:30:38 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That is crap...a good portion of those killed in the trade center were European nationals...Terrorism has not been an exclusive American problem yet we are doing the majority of fighting for others.

Butch

And a majority of funding terrorists since the end of WWII as well, though I understand it's not tactful to mention that since the mujahadeen found themselves at a loose end and boracic since the collapse of the soviet union.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 11:32:12 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx
Yeah, and made a big spectacle of it on TV. We as a nation had the gall to complain about parades in the street celebrating 9/11 then a few years later we execute a man on TV for the America Fuck Yeah crowd to cheer on.

The thing that i don't remember anybody who was bitching about that mentioning back in '01 (or since) is the happy arabs dancing and waving their kalashnikovs around like a middle eastern coke advert were all Palestinians.
Can't imagine why they wouldn't like America, can you?


haha

I feel bad for America. If you look at its history, it went from being this Brave New World for immigrants to make a life for themselves, to a downright powerhouse of agricultural and industrial production, to the "leader of the free world" and now the world is passing it by.

It's really kind of sad.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 12:34:01 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx
Yeah, and made a big spectacle of it on TV. We as a nation had the gall to complain about parades in the street celebrating 9/11 then a few years later we execute a man on TV for the America Fuck Yeah crowd to cheer on.

The thing that i don't remember anybody who was bitching about that mentioning back in '01 (or since) is the happy arabs dancing and waving their kalashnikovs around like a middle eastern coke advert were all Palestinians.
Can't imagine why they wouldn't like America, can you?


haha

I feel bad for America. If you look at its history, it went from being this Brave New World for immigrants to make a life for themselves, to a downright powerhouse of agricultural and industrial production, to the "leader of the free world" and now the world is passing it by.

It's really kind of sad.



Some have actually said, America, a failed experiment ;

The Information Clearing house

but such a bright dream, is it salvageable ?

If not, truly, where next ?

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 7/12/2011 12:35:14 PM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 12:35:41 PM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline 		Oh another reason why we need to stop focusing on the past:

http://www.salon.com/news/united_nations/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/07/12/manning

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 12:42:49 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		The trouble is, whilst those in glass houses should not really throw stones, meaning that everyone uses torture in some way shape or form to attain what information is required, America as usual went one better, with 'As Seen On TV'', Abu Ghraib and that fortified by such a place as GTMO where the rights afforded the accused in US Law are ignored by keeping the accused off American soil, a very cunning plan, they used your laws against everyone to justify their actions.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 1:02:23 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		That said, they still haven't brought the 11/9 four to trial, and they're being held in America, aren't they?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 1:40:27 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It's more of a problem in Israel, and they get a lot of guns from the US...as far as other countries being attacked...did you ever think that maybe they made a conscious choice not to make war with a foreign power in retaliation?

In fact I'd wager some of those countries would be happier if America didn't do the majority of fighting "for" them, especially in Iraq.


If they would retaliate against an innocent country for the actions of another... then don't you think that is reason enough to exterminate them?

And remember the attack was not because of America's support of Israel...it was, if you believe the dead punk, because of American troops in Saudi Arabia during and after the Gulf war.

I'm with you about Iraq and the rest of the world... let the pussies do their own fighting or be afraid of subway travel...or the safety of their children in schools...or their places of work...OK by me.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 1:47:48 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx
Yeah, and made a big spectacle of it on TV. We as a nation had the gall to complain about parades in the street celebrating 9/11 then a few years later we execute a man on TV for the America Fuck Yeah crowd to cheer on.

The thing that i don't remember anybody who was bitching about that mentioning back in '01 (or since) is the happy arabs dancing and waving their kalashnikovs around like a middle eastern coke advert were all Palestinians.
Can't imagine why they wouldn't like America, can you?


They thought the Tube bombings were pretty cool too. Anglo-Saxon run countries of any stripe don't have many friends in the Middle East, save among the puppet states in  the Gulf Protectorates.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 1:48:09 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If they would retaliate against an innocent country for the actions of another... then don't you think that is reason enough to exterminate them?

The Iraqis or the Americans?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 1:49:19 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That is crap...a good portion of those killed in the trade center were European nationals...Terrorism has not been an exclusive American problem yet we are doing the majority of fighting for others.

Butch

And a majority of funding terrorists since the end of WWII as well, though I understand it's not tactful to mention that since the mujahadeen found themselves at a loose end and boracic since the collapse of the soviet union.


Sooooo Moon... now tell me why because America cut off funding after the collapse of the Soviets in Afghanistan does that equate to blowing up the trade center and killing 3,000 innocents....And please show me your statistics so we can compare Russia and China...and the UK, for that matter, and see how funding terrorists around the world compares... Or are you just assuming the US is the leader as usual?

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 1:51:47 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That is crap...a good portion of those killed in the trade center were European nationals...Terrorism has not been an exclusive American problem yet we are doing the majority of fighting for others.

Butch

And a majority of funding terrorists since the end of WWII as well, though I understand it's not tactful to mention that since the mujahadeen found themselves at a loose end and boracic since the collapse of the soviet union.

While the AQ were CIA contractors for a while, the Saudis have spend a bunch on various 'projects' since then. And much like in the case of the IRA, various displaced supporters around the planet contribute quite a pile to the kitty.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 1:55:20 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The Iraqis or the Americans?


Which other country?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 2:00:45 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		That whole "using the al queda urban demolitions programme as an excuse to invade a country that had neither WMDs nor anything to do with al queda" thing.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 2:21:48 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		The attack on Iraq was planned and set in motion well before Lord Bush's wayward son was 'elected' in both London and Washington. On the UK side - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Action_Against_Iraq_%28Parliamentary_Approval%29_Bill

As for the United States, the Iraq Liberation Act signed under Clinton's pen and the vigorous support of military solutions by the Neo-con's various think tanks and political groups was a clue.

The only mystery was, with Blair and Bush on the matter, and the parties they controlled having the control of  their respective legislatures/parliaments why it took these Anglo-Saxon corporate champions until 2003 to get the plan underway.

< Message edited by FirstQuaker -- 7/12/2011 2:22:41 PM >

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 2:49:04 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You have to prove that my friend...The people of the US believed we had reason to be there and in WMD's.

Myself I've said over and over from the beginning .... it was a mistake to invade Iraq but they were hardly innocent.

But back to the reason for the post....rightly or wrongly there will be no prosecution of Bush...even thought I believe there should be.

There are just not enough of me’s in this country.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 2:57:00 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		You are correct and things such as this are just colorful partisan noise and international political wankery.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 6:14:12 PM   
masternoname


Posts: 164
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline 		well if you believe the glass house theory then maybe you UK chaps should shut up about the US. You don't exactly have a clean record when it comes to torturing people and taking over land.

but after reading your little rants on Israel policies in the US I can understand your hatred of us. Not that I think you are right but I do understand it now

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The trouble is, whilst those in glass houses should not really throw stones, meaning that everyone uses torture in some way shape or form to attain what information is required, America as usual went one better, with 'As Seen On TV'', Abu Ghraib and that fortified by such a place as GTMO where the rights afforded the accused in US Law are ignored by keeping the accused off American soil, a very cunning plan, they used your laws against everyone to justify their actions.



(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 6:48:03 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Technically, Gitmo is American soil. Try wandering onto US military base anywhere in world--US soil.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Arrest Bush II for War Crimes - Human Rights Watch - 7/12/2011 10:40:48 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		I'm not sure that getting into a US vs UK rant is a good way of dealing with this.

FWIW, my view is that Blair & Co are every bit as culpable as Bush & Co in relation to Iraq. Just to show I'm not being selective, I'm going to add the name of the Australian PM Howard. Howard ought to be in The Hague answering war crimes charges for his role in dragging us into the Iraq imbroglio too. I'd happily arrest the disgusting weasel myself. I'd delight in throwing the key down the Mariana Trench at its deepest point too.

I'm heartened to see that Americans here, virtually unanimously, aren't trying to defend what went on and are as repulsed as anyone else by it.

As things stand, there's no particular reason why the same events couldn't re-occur. Manufacturing consent isn't that difficult as we all found out. Wouldn't prosecutions send an unmistakeable signal that if it ever happens again, there will be a price to pay? Not just to the US but to the entire world?

Do people feel that is a desirable signal to send?

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 40
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