Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Twuedom


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Twuedom Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Twuedom - 7/13/2011 10:12:35 PM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline 		I was reading a thread where the phrase "true submissive" got thrown around and I realized I have never once heard anything about a "true sadist" or a "true masochist". The same goes for "true top" or "true bottom".

Why is this? Why do people only seem to create and project ideals of "trueness" onto submissives and slaves, masters and dominants?

It seems a bit unfair. S/M is just as much a valid part of the "lifestyle" as D/S. Why should it's labels be spared the joy and splendor of "truedom"?

Maybe I just haven't been paying attention and I have missed all the "true sadist" and "true bottom" threads. If that's the case and you have a definition for "true sadist/masochist/top/bottom", I would love to hear it.

But please...don't use my thread as a jumping off point to lecture on the rare and exotic "true submissive" and "true dominant" you've been hunting for. The D/S side of thing has 24334324 threads on that subject. Let's let the S/M side of things have the spotlight for a little while.

(Non-serious posts are great, too, because this is only a half-serious thread)


_____________________________

I was once a Rabbit, driven Mad, by the Decadence of his Desires...
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Twuedom - 7/13/2011 10:20:34 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		haha actually yeah, i've gotten a few messages personally about whether or not i was a "true enough masochist" for someone's particular favorite activity. some people like to shove skewers through their boobs, some people don't. i'm one of those who don't. maybe i'm not twue enough?

i did once get irritated by a friend who said i "wasn't as good" (verbatim) as someone else who liked needleplay, particularly through her nipples. personally i just can't tolerate needleplay, and i wouldn't seek it out of my own accord. it was disappointing to me to be compared to someone else in that manner, like "extremity of activity = goodness." =p when i mentioned it to the person, that i felt it wasn't a fair thing to say, his only response was "okay well let's get some needles and see."
yeah okay... whatever.

i am who i am, and if that's not "good enough" for you, then fuck off. =p

anyway, just a longwinded way to say yes -- there ARE "twue masochist" discussions. there are people (sadists and masochists both) who build reputations for being "hard players," and if you don't play as hard as they do, they consider you as not being "twue."


_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Twuedom - 7/13/2011 10:30:35 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Because there isn't really a lot of wiggle room in defining a sadist or a masochist. a sadist derives pleasure from inflicting pain, a masochist derives pleasure from receiving pain. It's pretty cut and dried, there isn't a lot of theory involved.

One can debate the degree or depth of somebody's sadism or masochism, but they are pretty hard things to fake. One can be an incompetent sadist who endangers his target through a lack of knowledge, but that doesn't make him any less of a sadist.



_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Twuedom - 7/13/2011 11:15:59 PM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		A true sadist would be one who derives pleasure from inflicting pain on a non-consensual.
Just to be a stickler =p

I think s/m is an action. It is either do or do not where as d/s is on a continuum so people want to claim extreme ends of the scale.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Twuedom - 7/13/2011 11:16:56 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

A true sadist would be one who derives pleasure from inflicting pain on a non-consensual.
Why do you say that?

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to coookie)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Twuedom - 7/13/2011 11:59:37 PM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		Diagnostic criteria for 302.84 Sexual Sadism


A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving acts (real, not simulated) in which the psychological or physical suffering (including humiliation) of the victim is sexually exciting to the person.

B. The person has acted on these urges with a nonconsenting person, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Copyright 2000 American Psychiatric Association
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/sexsadismTR.htm

That is why. True sadism would be more akin to the clinical definition for me

< Message edited by coookie -- 7/14/2011 12:00:58 AM >

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 12:55:24 AM   
Palliata


Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline 		I've heard both true sadist and true masochist, though admittedly only a few times versus the "true dom/sub" bit which I'm pretty sure many people throw out more often than a handshake. I think it's because status as a dom or sub is a point of pride, and therefore the more "true" you are to that ethos the more pride you're entitled to. Masochism and sadism, on the other hand, are at best neutral - they simply describe a preference, like gay or exhibitionist.


_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

(in reply to coookie)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 1:49:55 AM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		to the op, that's why i don't use true as a prefix for words. to me it's too cliche-ish to be taken seriously. it's like on an anime "i'll show you my TRUE power" so hearing someone say something like that in real life is both hilarious and embarassing

_____________________________

your living nightmare

(in reply to Palliata)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 3:04:32 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Cookie makes an interesting point with her DSM definition of what a sadist is. I'd consider myself one who meets that description of sadist because I could find pleasure in inflicting pain on a nonconsensual partner, but, naturally, I'd never do that. It also doesn't mean I'd want to injure such a nonconsensual woman. I'm just saying it would turn me on to spank or flog someone who wasn't into it. Don't we often come pretty close to doing that when we introduce new submissives into spanking or flogging? Now given they want the experience, but it's an exciting thing to slowly build up a new girl with a flogger and have her not saying red until she enters that beautiful place she had no idea existed. I realize society doesn't allow me to grab any woman to show her what's possible and I'm not about to force myself on anyone, etc. What I am able to do is enjoy inflicting pain on someone who needs the pain and domination. That's exciting in itself to realize she needs me to spank, flog and cane her. She's helpless with me and that's erotic. She can't resist it when I hurt her and in a way that means it's nonconsensual even though she acquiesces. She, also, likes the fact I'm turned on by giving her pain. It's a circular thing, a cycle of both our needs. A tandem cycle.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to fadedshadow)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 3:26:25 AM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline 		A lot of good points all around.

quote:

ORIGINAL: coookie
I think s/m is an action. It is either do or do not where as d/s is on a continuum so people want to claim extreme ends of the scale.


Fair enough. But if we really wanted to, I think we could make a spectrum for S/M based on how much pain a masochist could take or...um....how many....times a sadist can swing a paddle before their arm got tired.

I don't really see that happening, though. Perhaps people just don't tie S/M into their self-image like they do with D/S.

Thoughts?


< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 7/14/2011 3:28:47 AM >

_____________________________

I was once a Rabbit, driven Mad, by the Decadence of his Desires...

(in reply to coookie)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 3:44:19 AM   
BurntKitty


Posts: 3340
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: Here To Eternity.
Status: offline 		~FR~

I r a tw00 masochist. I'm a Mets & Jets fan from way back.

Depending on the top, I can last quite a bit on the cross at the local dungeon. Someone who starts slowly & builds up with a variety of paddles, floggers & a sjambok can take me to happy masoland, where someone who just wants to spank me will have me yawning. (Hey, it was late, and they were out of coffee...) I went from one month's play party being called "Jello Legs" to the next month's party: "Ol' Iron Ass".



_____________________________

Cat Quotes

Count Boogie's Foot Fetish Anti Creepy Training video


(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 4:04:07 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Interesting discussion. And BTW, I agree with cookie's definition of a true sadist (sorry, couldn't resist.)

Somehow this creepy vibe developed that said: if you are not an edge player, you are not real, true, or really truly in the lifestyle, or at least, you are less real, less true or less part of the lifestyle than me.

I hate that. It appears to have sprung from the online community, where anyone can pretend to be anything, at least for awhile.

Having said that, I will add that it's part of human nature for people to compare themselves with others, the technique of  "compare and contrast" is a basic way of viewing, evaluating, and judging that we learn from a very early age.

Unfortunately, humans often look for ways in which they can find themselves superior. Is it an ego thing, a self-esteem thing? I think that varies with the individual.

I also think telling someone "you are not sub enough" is probably a very good way to cull out the weaker subs with shaky self esteem who may very well not realize the dom making the statement is full of bullcrap. Oh excuse me, not a real, true dom.

YMMV










_____________________________



(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 4:27:26 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		I am a sadist and in the bdsm world I inflict pain on a consenting partner,Now thats the key word"CONSENTING'..I would label a true sadist as one who hurts and perhaps kills a non consenting partner in getting his/her jollys off..just my two cents..B

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 4:33:34 AM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fadedshadow
it's like on an anime "i'll show you my TRUE power" so hearing someone say something like that in real life is both hilarious and embarassing


Exactly. This is why, right before sex, I stand in front of the bed and yell out "Dom Mode Activate!" instead.

Way more classy and the ladies love it.


< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 7/14/2011 4:36:52 AM >

_____________________________

I was once a Rabbit, driven Mad, by the Decadence of his Desires...

(in reply to fadedshadow)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 4:36:35 AM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline 		Given the general definition of true sadists from several posters, I can understand why it's not as popular of a sentiment

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
I also think telling someone "you are not sub enough" is probably a very good way to cull out the weaker subs with shaky self esteem who may very well not realize the dom making the statement is full of bullcrap. Oh excuse me, not a real, true dom.

YMMV


Now, THAT is an interesting way of looking at it, one that I never thought of. Thanks for sharing.








_____________________________

I was once a Rabbit, driven Mad, by the Decadence of his Desires...

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 4:37:29 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BurntKitty

~FR~

I r a tw00 masochist. I'm a Mets & Jets fan from way back.

Depending on the top, I can last quite a bit on the cross at the local dungeon. Someone who starts slowly & builds up with a variety of paddles, floggers & a sjambok can take me to happy masoland, where someone who just wants to spank me will have me yawning. (Hey, it was late, and they were out of coffee...) I went from one month's play party being called "Jello Legs" to the next month's party: "Ol' Iron Ass".



A perfect illustration of how everything is relative. Floggers have me yawning.

Add me to the list of those who hate using the "true" descriptor for any of the labels.

Someone mentioned earlier about the actual definition of a sadist involving them hurting others non-consensually. I am not a sadist but I always kind of thought that, if I were, I would want to hurt someone who was really disliking it, not a pain slut. Hurting someone who wants to be hurt (and hurt more and more and more) would seem too much like work. Hurting someone who can't take a lot but is really suffering would seem so much sweeter Uh yeah, that's right, I'm not a sadist. Frankly, I always thought if I ever unleashed that, it would be overkill........luci


_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to BurntKitty)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 4:56:50 AM   
Charnegui


Posts: 1352
Joined: 5/1/2011
From: Puzzled
Status: offline 		I am who I am... and if in your eyes I am not a "twue" one, that's your point of view at me.

Having that said... does "true" exist ?

I strongly believe in the interaction between humans, so when I meet person A I am somewhat different than meeting up with person B. And I care less, of what people think of me!
Hey... it is just me.

_____________________________

There's a difference between my personality and my attitude; My personality is who I ám, my attitude depends on who you are.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 6:20:13 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coookie

Diagnostic criteria for 302.84 Sexual Sadism


A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving acts (real, not simulated) in which the psychological or physical suffering (including humiliation) of the victim is sexually exciting to the person.

B. The person has acted on these urges with a nonconsenting person, OR the sexual urges OR fantasies cause marked distress OR interpersonal difficulty.

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Copyright 2000 American Psychiatric Association
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/sexsadismTR.htm

That is why. True sadism would be more akin to the clinical definition for me


Big Or's there dontcha think?
Kinda not just non-consent only eh?


_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to coookie)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 7:59:10 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have seen the attitude that if you enjoy pain you are not a sub, because if you do your just a pain slut

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Twuedom - 7/14/2011 7:59:21 AM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

Exactly. This is why, right before sex, I stand in front of the bed and yell out "Dom Mode Activate!" instead.

Way more classy and the ladies love it.



KINKY WEAPONS SYSTEMS ONLINE


_____________________________

your living nightmare

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Twuedom Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094