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Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 5:00:34 AM

LadyConstanze

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Alfie is healing super well after his surgery, stitches are out and he's springy, the only problem is where he got injected in the shoulder, he's got a fist sized lump, makes him look like the hunchback of Notre Dame, I showed it to the vet when the stitches came out, she said it's rare but sometimes dogs react like this, it should disappear in a week, it got bigger so I brought him back and she was stunned. He doesn't seem to have any pain, she took a sample and the blood looked a bit odd, wasn't any clear fluid build up as expected, and she said it felt "crunchy" like there was some calcium build up, told me last Friday to keep him on antibiotics for a week, that should help, so far the lump doesn't seem to get smaller and he's getting a 2nd one.

Vet is completely stunned, said really no idea at all and Alf seems to have everything but normal reactions, she's researching like mad, apparently he's also the only Doberman ever who had lion's jaw as a puppy and she said it might have something to do with it but it's just speculation. But now where she gave him a local anesthetic while she was taking the tissue sample, he's forming another lump, despite the fact that she used a different anesthetic... The lumps don't see to be sensitive or painful, don't harm his appetite or seem to stop him from running about and playing. He's had shots before (vaccinations), he's been castrated so he's had anesthetics before.

I'm more than a bit concerned, if he ends up a slightly odd looking dobie with lumps, I can live with that as long as he's happy and healthy, but there's always the niggling worry that it might be something serious, I was wondering if it could have something to do with him being almost gutted by that barking rat of a Jack Russell? Anybody has a dog with such a weird reaction to anesthetic injections or odd lumps that are not lipomas?

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 5:11:32 AM

LillyBoPeep

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i went googling and found people reporting their dogs developing fibrous masses after vaccinations or other injections; some of them got smaller over time but were still present even after a year. it might be worthwhile to have a sample sent to a university research center. i've met a few vets who will do that if they can't figure it out on their own.
http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/why-do-dogs-develop-lumps-after-injections/
that little Q-&-A suggests that it might be an exaggerated immune response, but it's speculative.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 7/18/2011 5:12:01 AM >

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 5:24:52 AM

LadyConstanze

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Thanks, the girlie dog has it as well, but her lumps disappear fairly quick and they are soft, his are quite hard and "crunchy" - I think our vet (she's marvelous and very interested in research, plus she takes a special interest in Alfie as her thesis was about Dobies and she loves them, plus she cared for him when he was rescued from his first home as an abused puppy, so he's kinda her "pet project") said she plans to check with a teaching hospital and gets them to do some research, we should get the results of the tissue sample next week.

The whole problem is, it looks like work will take us both abroad for a while and we're not leaving the pets behind and Alf hasn't gotten the rabies vaccination...

One thing I'm glad about is that it's obviously a reaction, so not a tumor... But it's still a bit worrying...

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 5:33:31 AM

LillyBoPeep

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ah so another upcoming injection for him... another site that i read mentioned that lumps are an "adverse reaction" in about 20% of cases. none of my dogs got lumps with rabies vaccines, but it seems to happen to quite a few dogs. my dogs HAVE gotten swelling at an injection site that made a softer lump which disappeared quickly, but people do report these more solid-feeling ones, particularly after rabies. (my dogs have also always been mutts, and these articles i'm reading almost exclusively mention purebred dogs.)
it doesn't seem like people realy know what mechanism is causing them, though, or what to do about them other than surgically remove them if they become cumbersome.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 7/18/2011 5:34:15 AM >

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 6:09:22 AM

LadyConstanze

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I just spoke with the vet, she sent the question to her university...

Googled a bit and came across a horrible add where they are selling docked Dobermann puppies, so I called the RSPCA, they can't do anything or act upon anything as long as the surgery was done by a vet, doesn't matter which country it was in, as long as it it legal in that country it's legal here, they just won't be allowed to be shown...

http://www.sellyourpets.co.uk/dogs/dobermann/12369317/top-quality-dobermann-puppies/view

Oddly enough resident specialist for everything said only the other day that it is illegal to bring an animal to another country for the purpose of docking or cropping, oh well, seems the RSPCA is not well informed and got it all wrong...

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 8:31:40 AM

AlwaysLisa

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Lady C,

Over the years I have had about 5 dogs develop "bumps" at the injection site, warm compress with a towel seemed to help. Some were related, others not, so Im not convinced it's a genetic immunity issue, but I wouldn't rule it out. Is this a male Dobe you rescued? If so, then his genetic history would be unknown.

Light pressure with a warm cloth, followed by gentle messages to aid the fluid in resorption. Good luck, hope he gets better soon!

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 9:57:02 AM

LadyConstanze

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Thanks Lisa,

His history is actually fairly well documented, bought by a family from a breeder for lots of money, then developed the lion jaw and the idiots deemed him not pretty enough for a pedigree and kept him in a garage, whimpers were heard by neighbours and the completely neglected dog was rescued, then went through a couple of homes where he was too high maintenance (since we do the agility training with him, he's much happier and easier to manage, I'm used to dog walking but the little sod managed to give me blisters and was still in the mood to run another few hours), the vet we have took him on as her "free project" while he was in the care of the animal charity, she said he got injections when he was neutered and due to being chipped and tattooed it wasn't difficult to get his complete medical history and lineage.

The problem is that they are fast growing, very big (fist sized) and hard, Dobies tend to react a bit sensitive to injections, the girl usually also gets a bit of a blister after an injections but hers disappears within a week and is soft, his grow and get bigger. Nothing in his lineage or medical history that suggests that it's genetic. We also brought him to the vet for his shots when we got him (coincidentally the past owners got rid of him before the shots were due, ho hum), the vet suspects it might be calcium that collects there, he doesn't seem to mind if the lumps are pushed and prodded. I'm going to try the hot wet towel approach as it surely can't harm, apart from that wait for the lab results. He's quite hardy otherwise, high maintenance, stick mad but compared to the girl not very bright, takes him ages to figure out the interactive toys. Since it never ocured before, I was wondering if it could have something to do with the barking rat biting him...

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 10:01:26 AM

Iamsemisweet

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I do agility with my dogs also, lady C
A couple of years ago, my 12 yo bitch developed Lumps, which turned out to be mast cell rumors, kind of an immune system reaction, and fairly serious. Have they tested for that?

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 10:48:42 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I do agility with my dogs also, lady C
A couple of years ago, my 12 yo bitch developed Lumps, which turned out to be mast cell rumors, kind of an immune system reaction, and fairly serious. Have they tested for that?

The lump is exactly where they injected when he had surgery and developed right after the surgery, he's barely 2 years old. It would be very very odd if the lumps both show up right after the injection and in the place of the injections and it's not related to them. It's just super strange that he never had it before. Vet took a sample and sent it in, so should know more by the end of the week.

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 11:09:20 AM

LillyBoPeep

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i can't imagine they are unrelated to the injections; it's unfortunately not an entirely uncommon side-effect in some dogs. it doesn't seem to matter what it is (though there is more of a chance, it seems, with rabies vaccines) but there are a lot of reports of hard, fibrous lumps growing after ANY kind of injection.
hopefully your vet will get some good answers back from the lab she sent samples to.
have they stopped growing or are they still growing? they may have to be surgically removed.

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 12:21:53 PM

LadyConstanze

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The 2nd one is actually receding a bit, the first one stays the same size but feels even harder now, almost like a piece of bone. I dread to think how he's going to react when he gets the rabies vaccination, though unless I'll leave him behind (no way!) he's going to have that!

The vet is tossing around a bunch of theories and counter checking them (just ran into her when I had him do his agility training and jump hurdles), she thinks that maybe the antibiotics he was on due to the bite and the anesthetic might be the reason for the reaction, as long as the lumps aren't dangerous and don't bother him, I can live with a dog who looks funny, the poor bugger went through enough, a surgery for purely cosmetic reasons, no way!

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 12:25:05 PM

LillyBoPeep

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if they aren't growing anymore, that's a plus. if they were still growing, there's a possibility that they could become a hazard to him (get caught on things, interfere with his mobility, etc etc); but if he's otherwise fine and they're not growing anymore, then cosmetic surgery isn't necessary.
glad that the second one is receding. =)

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 12:29:07 PM

Charnegui

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Sorry Constanza, on this one I do not have an advise...
Gaia has also a lump on one of her paws... can be from lying down, a grass, the reaction to frontline or anything else... went to the vet's, they think it won't be an awfull thing. To remove it surgically it will cost about 300 euro's..... I need to win the jackpot first...

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 12:47:58 PM

AlwaysLisa

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Sounds almost like the fluid that was injected, wasn't put in deep enough, and it remained in a ball, just under the skin, where it turned. Before I started giving my own shots, I had that experience when a young, novice vet tech gave an injection and was nervous about how far to insert the needle. The lump turned hard, but hot packs did help, but if memory serves, it took a few weeks for the entire swelling to go down.

It doesn't sound like a problem from the rat attack, the fact it is at an injection site is highly suspect. Good luck, if things are receding, thats a great sign! You'll have to post pics of the agility, we are hooked here, it's great for retired show dogs, keeps em young and active!

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/18/2011 1:12:56 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Sounds almost like the fluid that was injected, wasn't put in deep enough, and it remained in a ball, just under the skin, where it turned. Before I started giving my own shots, I had that experience when a young, novice vet tech gave an injection and was nervous about how far to insert the needle. The lump turned hard, but hot packs did help, but if memory serves, it took a few weeks for the entire swelling to go down.

It doesn't sound like a problem from the rat attack, the fact it is at an injection site is highly suspect. Good luck, if things are receding, thats a great sign! You'll have to post pics of the agility, we are hooked here, it's great for retired show dogs, keeps em young and active!

I'd be surprised if it was a mistake by the vet, especially twice, as she's been treating the girl and she's ace, got a Weimaraner herself and they are amazingly similar in their reactions to Dobies, as I said, her thesis was about Dobies and any Dobie you see in the area goes to her, she was actually joking that it was a nice change for her when I showed up with one of my cats having an injured paw or the rat (a real pet rat, not a barking one)

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/21/2011 3:37:45 AM

LadyConstanze

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Massive relief!

Boy is a bit super sensitive (not his brain though, compared to the girl he's really daft but very sweet) and developed an allergy, his hunchback lump is softening up and slowly disappearing, the vet said Lisa's idea with the warm wet towels and massage is quite good and will help, though not do it immediately as it can aggravate the tissue while the lump is forming, but yes, rabies injections for his passport are going to be a lot of fun and games and it might be a good idea to keep aggressive barking rats away from him. Mind you on the way back from the vet we detoured through the park and I regret that I didn't have a mobile with camera with me. The smallest Yorkie ever decided to play chase with him and it was quite a sight, then he ran for about 40 minutes in mad circles with a Greyhound, they were both just eating up ground, the owner of the Greyhound, Kia and myself were just staring in awe (mind you Kia made sure that all the super dangerous pigeons stay away and the ducks keep to the lake - she's smart enough not to run with the nutters). He was less than enthusiastic about his agility training with hurdles and is now snoring gently - I might have the chance to work without interruption for a few hours!

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RE: Allergic reactions in dogs? - 7/26/2011 10:59:54 AM

kalikshama

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Glad to hear the lump is disappearing!

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