Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Clinton's advice


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Clinton's advice Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:23:26 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/bill-clinton-advocates-constitutional-option-debt-ceiling-132253374.html

Clinton says he would raise the debt ceiling without approval. Do you think Obama should follow Clinton's advice?

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:25:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/bill-clinton-advocates-constitutional-option-debt-ceiling-132253374.html

Clinton says he would raise the debt ceiling without approval. Do you think Obama should follow Clinton's advice?



Yes

I think it would be better to have a constitutional crisis than it would be to have the entire word go into a very prolonged recession and 100s of 1000s of seniors homeless....

Edited to add, I do not think that he has the power to raise it constitutionally speaking, but there could be an argument about national security and executive emergency powers

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/19/2011 3:26:11 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:29:58 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Its a path with too much risk for Obama to take. He is supposedly a Constitutional scholar, and Clinton's interpretation of the 14th is unlikely to prevail a challenge in the SCOTUS. The validity of existing debt doesnt have fuck all to do with increasing the debt. Obama has so many chinks in his armor, failing on a Constitutional issue leaves him far too vulnerable.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/19/2011 3:30:48 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:32:59 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		See, I think the reverse is true. A lot of these Teas and Quasi-Teas ran on things like reducing debt, and now they're in a pickle. They may need the political cover afforded by handing it off to Obama.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:36:23 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

See, I think the reverse is true. A lot of these Teas and Quasi-Teas ran on things like reducing debt, and now they're in a pickle. They may need the political cover afforded by handing it off to Obama.


Its not political cover to put forth bills that are consistent with what you ran on despite the inevitable demagoguery they would and have invoked. They will need cover if they DONT put Blowboy on the line.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:37:59 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

See, I think the reverse is true. A lot of these Teas and Quasi-Teas ran on things like reducing debt, and now they're in a pickle. They may need the political cover afforded by handing it off to Obama.



They might be secretly relieved, but publicly they would blast him. The Sturm und Drang would be deafening....

I suppose it is what is more important to Obama... our future, or republican flack. This president seems far too interested in opinions from the Right. He does not seem to understand he cannot reason with these people, he cannot appeal to their logic or their patriotism. They are nihilists, and if they do not move soon to raise the debt ceiling, they are in fact traitors to their country in my opinion. They are willing to crash and burn this country to deprive Obama of 4 more years... un-freaking-believable

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:38:24 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		They have to raise the debt ceiling. Everyone knows it. You know it.

The only question is how they're going to make it palatable.

So you're actually speaking to my point--by handing it off to Obama, they can continue pretending they're doing something.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:39:16 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

See, I think the reverse is true. A lot of these Teas and Quasi-Teas ran on things like reducing debt, and now they're in a pickle. They may need the political cover afforded by handing it off to Obama.



They might be secretly relieved, but publicly they would blast him. The Sturm und Drang would be deafening....

I suppose it is what is more important to Obama... our future, or republican flack. This president seems far too interested in opinions from the Right. He does not seem to understand he cannot reason with these people, he cannot appeal to their logic or their patriotism. They are nihilists, and if they do not move soon to raise the debt ceiling, they are in fact traitors to their country in my opinion. They are willing to crash and burn this country to deprive Obama of 4 more years... un-freaking-believable


Too bad not raising the debt ceiling wont crash and burn the country...Obamas profligate spending will.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:41:04 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

They have to raise the debt ceiling. Everyone knows it. You know it.

The only question is how they're going to make it palatable.

So you're actually speaking to my point--by handing it off to Obama, they can continue pretending they're doing something.



What will you think if they don't raise the debt ceiling... why would they act so recklessly?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:44:19 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

They have to raise the debt ceiling. Everyone knows it. You know it.

The only question is how they're going to make it palatable.

So you're actually speaking to my point--by handing it off to Obama, they can continue pretending they're doing something.



What will you think if they don't raise the debt ceiling... why would they act so recklessly?



It depends on the circumstances. Raising the debt ceiling without major cuts in spending is far more reckless than not raising it at all. Watch how quick the ratings agencies are to downgrade US debt if McConnell-Reid is all that can get passed.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:46:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Too bad not raising the debt ceiling wont crash and burn the country...Obamas profligate spending will.


The house originates all spending bills (it is republican controlled, the same guys who borrowed and spent on the wars and are borrowing now) You should read up on that, the name it is called is the US Constitution.

Maybe you've heard of it, starting oh, from about 1st grade on to as far as you got in school..... 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/19/2011 3:48:40 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 3:54:20 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

They have to raise the debt ceiling. Everyone knows it. You know it.

The only question is how they're going to make it palatable.

So you're actually speaking to my point--by handing it off to Obama, they can continue pretending they're doing something.



Once again, they DONT have to raise the debt ceiling. Not raising it by 8/2 doesnt mean default, no matter how many talking heads parrot Geithner/Obama. Its the refusal to cut spending that will lead to a ratings downgrade and economic disaster, and Obama will deserve full blame for not making them (and for any tax increases that further exacerbate the recession).

"Just one day after Standard and Poor’s (S&P) placed the United States’ debt rating on “CreditWatch Negative,” S&P upgraded Ohio’s credit rating from “negative” to “stable.” This upgrade was prompted by the successful passage of a balanced two-year budget by the Ohio legislature that addressed an $8 billion deficit.

On June 29, Governor John Kasich signed a budget simultaneously reducing spending and cutting taxes. The spending cuts were wide-ranging but especially targeted local governments, schools, and nursing homes.

The budget also included measures to entice these entities to function more efficiently–localities were encouraged to share services or consider merging, and schools receiving Race to the Top grants were required to adopt a teacher evaluation policy and move to a performance-based pay system.

On the tax front, besides cuts for Ohioans, the new budget also provides a tax credit for companies that invest in Ohio. It is hoped this will help reduce unemployment in the state, which has already fallen to 8.4% from an 11.2% peak during the height of the financial crisis."

(And if one doesnt think Ohio's improving unemployment picture under a GOP governor promoting exactly the kinds of policies that the House GOP is promoting isnt going to swing critical electoral votes they've got their heads firmly planted in their ass).



< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/19/2011 4:06:07 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 4:55:50 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/bill-clinton-advocates-constitutional-option-debt-ceiling-132253374.html

Clinton says he would raise the debt ceiling without approval. Do you think Obama should follow Clinton's advice?


Yes.  In fact, I think regardless of whether republicans refuse to budge or not, it will be raised.  We'll find out soon enough, either way though, won't we? 


_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 5:02:23 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Am I ever gonna hear your poppin sound?  Wilb, am I ever gonna hear your poppin sound?

You know, the one where your head is comin out your ass?  Nah, didnt ever think so.

It omes in 8.6 percent in Ohio, running the all state comparison......

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=state:ST390000&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemployment+rate+in+ohio#ctype=l&strail=false&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality:S&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=state&idim=state:ST390000&tdim=true&hl=en&dl=en

Look out!!! You need to get outta the way of those turds so you can see yourself!!!  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 5:21:32 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yes

I think it would be better to have a constitutional crisis than it would be to have the entire word go into a very prolonged recession and 100s of 1000s of seniors homeless....

Edited to add, I do not think that he has the power to raise it constitutionally speaking, but there could be an argument about national security and executive emergency powers


I hope he can and I hope he does. I heard no complaining from Republicans when Bush Jr was on his spending spree. If we had a Republican president right now, the debt ceiling would be raised and there still would be no complaints from Republicans about spending. The only reason they're complaining is to try to make Obama a one term president. It makes me sick how rich Republicans want to keep what they don't even need while taking away from the poor and middle class. They claim they need to keep their money to create jobs. Then they hoard their money and turn around and say they don't have to create jobs because nobody is "entitled" to a job. Since they only want to create jobs overseas (if at all), maybe some of us think they aren't "entitled" to live in this country. It's time to raise the debt ceiling and tax the hell out of these two faced lying scum. If they respond by fleeing to countries like India, let them go. They're traitors and we're better off without them anyway.


< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 7/19/2011 5:43:01 PM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 5:43:04 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		There's no reason for him to do it now.

He should keep pressing for a deal that will cut spending and hike taxes, just like he's doing.  Failing that, he should try McConnell's suggestion of using debt ceiling raises that have been granted to him.  He can use the unilateral hike if it's nigh unto the deadline, and then claim credit for avoiding a default.

Note that both Geithner and Clinton have stated that this is a possibility.  Without delving into the legality of it, think of this as either trial balloons, or else as negotiating tactics.  After Obama trying to negotiate the health care bill for months with the GOP and then giving up and just ramming it down their throats, I doubt that the GOP will ignore this situation.  If the GOP keeps refusing to negotiate with him and he keeps going ahead and passing legislation over them, they're not going to be popular with their constituencies.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 8:24:37 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		The freaken page is shrunk....I can't read the thread as is....so you folks need to get to page two....so I can jump in....lol

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/19/2011 9:26:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

They have to raise the debt ceiling. Everyone knows it. You know it.

The only question is how they're going to make it palatable.

So you're actually speaking to my point--by handing it off to Obama, they can continue pretending they're doing something.



What will you think if they don't raise the debt ceiling... why would they act so recklessly?



It depends on the circumstances. Raising the debt ceiling without major cuts in spending is far more reckless than not raising it at all. Watch how quick the ratings agencies are to downgrade US debt if McConnell-Reid is all that can get passed.


Confirmed later by Moody's. Anything less than a $4 trillion deficit reduction is insufficient to avoid a downgrade of our credit rating.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/20/2011 12:34:12 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Its the refusal to cut spending that will lead to a ratings downgrade and economic disaster, and Obama will deserve full blame for not making them


Bullshit--

Obama called for Congress to cut deficits by $4 trillion over 12 years and commit to automatic, across-the-board spending cuts and tax increases if an initial target is not met by 2014.

There's also a bipartisan plan in the works.

The problem is not cuts. The problem is the GOP opposition to ending Bush tax cuts for incomes over $250,000.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703385404576259903446373140.html

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Clinton's advice - 7/20/2011 7:07:16 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

The problem is not cuts. The problem is the GOP opposition to ending Bush tax cuts for incomes over $250,000.


Like I have said, the Republican's refusal to look after country first and put their reelections ahead of our welfare to the point of having us go into default is treasonous... We all know we cannot possibly reach the goal of deficit reduction by cutting government spending, tax increases have to be a part of the overall plan. In this country compromise is key to accomplishing our business. We have two parties that should be able to be adults and compromise. The Republican Party is being beyond childish in their refusal to help make hard decisions and govern. I hope it costs them seats in 2012. I can already see the campaign ads if they cause a default with their narcissism.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Clinton's advice Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.313