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I called him Sir because it was hot, and it made him hot and it made me hot, which was precisely the purpose of things at that time.

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ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

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ORIGINAL: Arpig
screams immaturity and insecurity

That's kind of how I feel about adults who still play D&D [;)]

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  I wouldn't worry if I were you.  There's a few things he doesn't understand.  One is, that he's a service top, not a Dom, so the perspective he holds is consequently different to that of a Dom.  If you watch these discussions carefully, you'll come to understand that he doesn't control the relationship.  She does.

His ego also gets bound up far too easily in these little discussions and he responds in a childish fashion.  Again, he just doesn't have a Dom's perspective, so don't go worrying if he responds in such a manner.  It's a mere symptom.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Depends on how you look at it.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact


Perhaps a different turn, but this isn't limited to s types alone.  We leather folks are just as particular when it comes to each other when we're talking about the other side of the kneel. 

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ORIGINAL: Awareness

I wouldn't worry if I were you.  There's a few things he doesn't understand.  One is, that he's a service top, not a Dom, so the perspective he holds is consequently different to that of a Dom.  If you watch these discussions carefully, you'll come to understand that he doesn't control the relationship.  She does.

His ego also gets bound up far too easily in these little discussions and he responds in a childish fashion.  Again, he just doesn't have a Dom's perspective, so don't go worrying if he responds in such a manner.  It's a mere symptom.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Yep. I must say, my overall impression is that the Arpig side and the Awareness side are talking about different contexts. Apples and oranges.

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ORIGINAL: ChasteDream

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

I never call anyone Sir but my Owner. If I called everyone Sir, how would I give my Owner the extra respect he deserves? I agree that if *I* approached a Dom wanting to play with them, submit to them or be considered by them then it might be a nice idea to start as I meant to go on. But this doesn't explain why Doms who approach me for 'a chat' or 'friendship' then try to insist on being called Sir. It seems to me that there are many low-status individuals who use online BDSM as a way to get the respect they fail to get in their real life. Unfortunately for them, they are not going to get that respect from me.

Another related irritation is when other subs (often Gorean) insist on calling my Owner Sir, even after he has told them not to. For him, Sir is the personal, sexual, intimate title that I give him and for others in BDSM to refer to him by that title is an attempt by them to position themselves as submissive to him, something which he has not asked for or consented to. It is particularly rude for them to continue after he has made his feelings clear, claiming 'that's just what I call all Doms' and imposing their standards onto him.

If someone says 'call me Sir' I simply say 'no thanks' and carry on with what I was saying previously. No-one can dominate you without your permission!

owned xxx

Well, obviously, both you and your owner are entitled to do and call one another and others as you prefer. For me however, I wouldn't be talking with you if you didn't address me as I prefer, respectfully. This is my preference, and I'm entitled to it, too. And obviously since you're a slave and I'm a Master, its crystal clear which of us is right!

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

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ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

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ORIGINAL: Arpig
screams immaturity and insecurity

That's kind of how I feel about adults who still play D&D [;)]

And you would be wrong, horribly and terribly wrong.

It takes a great deal of maturity, knowledge, and understanding of people and the nature of the interactions between them to be able to create a rational and complete character and then to write a coherent story involving that character when you have control only over that character's motivations and the actions he or she attempts. The DM requires these attributes to a greater degree, because he is in fact writing a novel with no ability to control the main characters.That is why the D&D games you played back in high school and college sucked hairy sweaty frost giant balls. None of you had matured sufficiently to appreciate the hidden depths and subtleties of the game well enough to play it properly.

Furthermore, your ill-informed, erroneous, bigoted attitude is quite common among the uninitiated non-believers, prevalent one might even say, and therefore, you need to be anything but insecure to continue playing the game of games as an adult.

Please, the next time you come to engage me another of these little exchanges, do try to come armed with something more than lack of wit and vision combined with a marked susceptibility to a Feeblemind spell, you might just avoid this sort of contretemps if you did.

Azkarba! Quickly elf, disable his followers while they are still mesmerized by the awe inspiring power of my bardic oratory ability! Cast a Massmorph on them and turn them into a forest to shade and cool me whilst I dispatch the the vermin's leader.

Stand foul varlet! You are alone gnoll vomit, tis only you and I now. Prepare to defend yourself you heathen son of a half-orc and a three-breasted Balthtazrite whore!


ETA: Just in case anybody didn't catch it...[:D]

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Why is it, I wonder when pronouncements come from your friends, they're all valid but when they come from someone else, they're the product of insane levels of ego.

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*wink* You're as full of shit as anyone else Hanners. Might pay to remember that.

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ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

This is where we branch off and agree to disagree. I simply don't share that same perspective of Jeff at all. I agree with a lot of his viewpoints and if they define him as a service top, then the same applies to me.

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But...hey...you two clearly have some kind of beef going on here and my posts seem to be the medium for hashing it out. So if you don't mind repling directly to each other about how you feel regarding each other, that would be great.

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ORIGINAL: subtlyAlpha


(my very first thread outside of Intro! *happydance*)

This is something I've encountered a couple of times (and as I think about it, from the same 'demographic'), and I wanted to run it past the wide variety of opinions here, to see if I can get a better understanding of it.

I've been 'instructed' to call Dom's who I'm just starting to talk to (as in within the first few days) Sir.

It grates me. It makes me feel like they are demanding a level of 'respect' higher than the one that they have earned. It makes me feel like they are focusing on me as a submissive, rather than as a woman who submits. It makes me feel like they are trying to 'skip' the getting to know you part of a relationship, and heading full speed into 'kneel, bitch!'. It's usually accompanied by them calling me 'good girl' or 'little one', as well. *sideeye*

It's explained as being a matter of respect - as acknowledging them as Dominants, and respecting their position and authority. Well and good, from their point of view.

I'm new - I'll freely admit that. I only became consciously aware of my submissive tendencies about 9 months ago, and the one Dom that I had a brief (and long-distance) relationship with was, and is, a dear friend, so perhaps that's shaped my perspectives on how initial contacts and interactions should go. In my mind, there is a clear progression from one stage to another - stranger, acquaintance, friend, lover/Dominant. Those stages might take 3 years or 3 months to progress through, depending on the people involved - but it's a progression. It's not a leap from stranger to Dom, because that's the side of the dynamic they claim.
Play partners are a bit different, in my mind, as there isn't the same expectation that the individual who flogs me in the Club will ever be anything but a willing Top. And just because they are in the role of a Top, they might not even be a Dom/me.

I'm very polite, courteous, and diplomatic to a fault at times, and I tend to respect everyone - even those who have not yet 'earned' it. Being instructed to call someone I've just met in the lifestyle Sir, though? It - irks me. I feel like at the start of our interaction, we are equals - two humans approaching each other, and trying to learn enough about the other to see if we want to be more than ships passing in the choppy online waters. And there ain't no way they would call me Ma'am - nor would I want them to. Kiya is JUST fine.

To me, it seems like it would be more valuable to progress through a relationship to the point where I wanted to call them Sir. Where calling them Sir seemed simply natural. It would indicate a change in attitudes, perceptions, dynamic and expectations - on both sides of the kneel.

So.

Am I being unreasonable here? Is the progression of connection/relationship that much different in BDSM? Is it truly outlandish to expect to be able to consider a Dom a friend before one considers them their Dom? Is it exceptionally unsubby to believe I'm the equal of any Dom until we chose to enter into a power synergy/exchange relationship? (And I won't go into how I feel about equality as people/humans AFTER that. *wrygrin*)

And, perhaps the core question - how best do I express that I feel like they don't have the 'right' to demand a stranger call them Sir, without casting aspersions on their experience and dynamic? I usually handle it by not 'addressing' them at all.....

Thank y'all in advance for any insights on this....

K.

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I believe that every Domme should call her sub by an honorific.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Once, on the other side, I was chatting away in a pretty friendly way - the way I do here on the boards, with a femdom. It had gone to a few messages both ways, and I felt that we were getting on. Then I suddenly realised I didn't know what she wanted me to call her. At that point she said, 'You can call me Mistress X or Ma'am'.

A bit of force from her clicked with a bit of unspoken desire from me. She chose just the right time, as it were, to remind me that what I thought was an apple could be an orange. A couple of cmails earlier it would have rubbed me up the wrong way. When she did it though: it was undeniably hot.