RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor.

RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor.

Pay for Immates at their current budget

2% (1)

Pay for the elderly and others in financial hardship

48% (17)

Other.

48% (17)

Total Votes : 35

(last vote on : 8/15/2011 9:55:44 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

BitaTruble -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:22:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance http://www.welfareinfo.org/ I looked, I still didn't see where it said 3 million. CBO lists our expenses for SNAP/food stamps and child nutrition at around 80 billion a year. I have no idea where that 3 million number came from.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:22:19 AM)
quote: Im sorry Heather of course Your right your completely right. How terrible of me to have a difference of opinion from you at any point. I should just go and kill myself for committing such a crime against you or your god like owner... I will cease such behavior and never do it again. quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather Look, if you have a problem with Hanners from another thread, please take it up with her there. It has nothing to do with me or anything I said on this thread. The only thing I have argued with anybody on this thread about is you misstating something I said elsewhere. Now, what do you think of the proposal I made to free up money from the prison system to provide for the poor? Again I agree with EVERYTHING you and your owner will ever say EVER again because YOU and ONLY YOUR owner are ever going to be correct ever ... I bow down and WORSHIP you both... It seems like EVERY thread here turns into You and Hannah being right and thats all... And thats what YOU said YOU SAID I WAS WRONG... More then once on more then one thread.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:23:11 AM)
quote: I looked, I still didn't see where it said 3 million. The word "million" doesn't turn up on a search of that page. I suspect it may be on one of the pages linked to from there.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:26:11 AM)
Then please take that up on those threads. That is the general policy of the boards, I believe.

HannahLynHeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:32:51 AM)
quote: I have no idea where that 3 million number came from. a sort of inverse cloud cuckoo land?

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:36:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather quote: I have no idea where that 3 million number came from. a sort of inverse cloud cuckoo land? Thanks for your contribution to the discussion

HannahLynHeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:45:03 AM)
you're most welcome.

kykitten41 -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:48:38 AM)
well since a huge percentage of our prison population is made up of murderers...why not send them to fight our wars? they already have experience and are more than qualified for the job. it empties our prisons...leaving shelter for those less fortunate to have a home..and the money that had been used to house..feed and provide medical..can go to the elderly and homeless. it frees up money spent in training our military...and gives prisoners an opportunity to do what they do best..kill. thats my opinion.

rulemylife -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 1:22:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance And as for my opinion Id rather cut the spending we do on the people who cannot follow societies laws and push for more important things in my opinion such as making sure the elderly dont have to choose between their 60 dollar a month medication and wither or not they are going to eat. Again I state in america on average 1 in 8 people go hungry daily, 1 in 3 elderly people have to make the choice between feeding themselves and buying their medication. Over 30 percent of the working population lives in a bracket where they make less than 22 thousand dollars a year. However We spend more on people who rape, rob, and kill, then we do on the people who work every single day of their lives. So your alternative is what, starving them to death?

rulemylife -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 1:25:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Do You propose a way to fix it? With the way things are going within America crime rate is rising. Meaning We will have to care for more prisoners meaning the cost on the system will be higher taking away the little bit of funds we have for assistance. You mention its cold hearted to just kill prisoners instead allowing them to live in prison and taxing the american system... However is it not also being a cold hearted person to allow children, women, men and the elderly go hungry or starve to death because we spend too much on prisoners? The way to fix it is by not incarcerating people for non-violent crimes.

Strictmasterblue -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 1:38:29 AM)
Don't most Prison systems already allow inmates to do many jobs when possible. usually considered a privilage to earn some money for extras........?

shallowdeep -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 1:56:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather This would reduce the number of inmates by a huge factor <I don't feel like looking up the specific percentage, but I recall it being reported on the boards to be a shockingly substantial one>. Out of curiosity, I quickly searched for a number. The most recent figure I found was in this 2010 publication, Behing Bars II: Substance Abuse and America's Prison Population, from The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University, which appears to cover data from 2006. From page two of the report: quote: Few inmates are incarcerated for marijuana possession as their controlling or only offense. Inmates incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails for marijuana possession as the controlling offense accounted for 1.1 percent (25,235) of all inmates and 4.4 percent of those incarcerated for drug law violations. Those incarcerated for marijuana possession as their only offense accounted for 0.9 percent (20,291) of all inmates and 2.9 percent of those incarcerated for drug law violations. Based on those percentages, I'm not sure legalization would be quite the panacea for prison budget cost reductions you might have hoped. But, fully on topic, I'd agree with your "Other" vote.

theGuideGoddess -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 2:02:40 AM)
I would suggest that were the penalties for crime more harsh there would be less crime. As in days gone by, if we just took the murderer or thief down to the town square and hung him we would make an example. The criminals should have to work long and hard days to: 1. Repay their victims. 2. Pay for their keep. 3. Pay for their children. 4. Pay for the cost to society to prosecute them. Think 18 hour work days 6 days a week. I am pretty sure MANY would not commit the offense. In the end a death penalty might actually be the kinder, gentler choice to society. The elderly should be respected and cared for.....at least the upstanding citizens. The poor should be educated and have to work for their stipends....as it use to be. I would aptitude test all upon an initial request for assistance and then force an education towards their most likely aptitude. If they did not pass the test they would not get the check. They would have a choice. Our educational system needs a huge overhaul. The statistics on the actual level of education of many high school students is more than a little unsettling. We just pass those children right on through. God forbid that if someone should fail that they would actually learn that they OMG! Failed! I would also make higher education far more accessible. A government job should not be the best paying job on the market. Politicians should not get pensions.....the job was not meant to be a job, but a gift of service for the love of the country. If you imagine our justice system is actually just I would suggest you start watching some of the travesty that is occurring within our corrupt system. We have become a messed up and backwards country. So stuck in political correctness and concern for 'everyone's' right to 'equality' that we have lost focus. What is wrong is being presented as right and what is right is considered wrong. We are the only country in the world that has troops in nearly every country of the world. Bring the boys home. ALL of them. Get our nose out of the world's business. We have enough problems in our own house that need fixing without an ability to meet the needs. Finally: I would audit every single government (State and Federal)funded program and demand accountability for the monies. If you start crunching numbers and doing simple multiplication and division a lot of things are just not adding up. I am pretty sure we would uncover some corruption that would make Bernie Madoff look like a pretty good guy. We do need change in this country....but the kind we are getting is not in the best interest of the health of the country or the people and especially not our rights. TGG "Adversity causes some men to break; others to break records." – William A. Ward Some rules just should be broken. Rules that set people like OJ free.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 3:39:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shallowdeep ... from The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University, which appears to cover data from 2006. From page two of the report: quote: Few inmates are incarcerated for marijuana possession as their controlling or only offense. Inmates incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails for marijuana possession as the controlling offense accounted for 1.1 percent (25,235) of all inmates and 4.4 percent of those incarcerated for drug law violations. Those incarcerated for marijuana possession as their only offense accounted for 0.9 percent (20,291) of all inmates and 2.9 percent of those incarcerated for drug law violations. Based on those percentages, I'm not sure legalization would be quite the panacea for prison budget cost reductions you might have hoped. But, fully on topic, I'd agree with your "Other" vote. agreed. if anything, three-strikes laws should go away. there are people sitting in jail for 20 years just because they were look-outs on a small drug deal, and people convicted of manslaughter getting out in 5. =p that never made sense to me. but while there are lots of people in jail for fairly "harmless" drug crimes, they aren't so huge a percentage of the entire prison population that freeing them would magically change anything. i do think that if we're going to incarcerate people, we're responsible for their needs, so i'd vote other. but i think we really need to redefine what those needs are. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28913184/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/ahead-super-bowl-inmates-get-flat-screens/ that's a 2009 article about a prison in Mass. spending $77k on new flat-screen TVs for inmates, conveniently just before the superbowl. =p they say the money came from an inmate fund, but goodness does that ever seem silly. flat screen TVs are not a "need" for anyone, much less a person who's incarcerated.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 3:55:07 AM)
I agree.[sm=goodpost.gif] Our over-crowded prison population, lack of universal health care (even prisoners get health and dental care), myopic approach to education, and lack of ability to care for our own disabled and elderly make us a socially backward country. Although I agree the money to do better is there, I'm not sure more auditing is the answer. It seems to foster yet another layer of corruption. BTW OP: In my never humble opinion, you are completely out of line in regards your anti Heather/Hanners rant, and have derailed your own thread. Your 3 million figure is way off, and you got called on it. I, for one, prefer you address that as opposed to nit picking with Heather.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 4:32:44 AM)
I don't necessarily agree with a lot of what theguide says, except the part about bringing home all the troops, or at least most of them. I am sick of the wars, neither of which can be won. Time to throw in the towel In terms of supporting people, it pisses me off that people who can't afford or provide for them keep having children. Public assistance should be limited to two kids, or less, per family. there needs to be a safety net, but not an unlimited one. I am also not quite sure why we, as a society, are responsible for supporting the elderly, even the "upstanding" ones. Why shouldn't people plan for their own retirement? I know we all got ripped off on the social security thing, but surely no one ever believed that SS alone was going to be sufficient. And if they didn't plan for retirement, why is that my problem, as opposed to their families' problem? I agree three strike laws are crazy. However, in several states, these laws have been voted in by the public. If that is what the majority wants, how can you just ignore that? Finally, all of you who insist that prisoners should work for a living, I think that sounds like a great idea. But doing what?

kalikshama -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 5:19:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kykitten41 well since a huge percentage of our prison population is made up of murderers...why not send them to fight our wars? they already have experience and are more than qualified for the job. it empties our prisons...leaving shelter for those less fortunate to have a home..and the money that had been used to house..feed and provide medical..can go to the elderly and homeless. it frees up money spent in training our military...and gives prisoners an opportunity to do what they do best..kill. thats my opinion. Haha. People are in prison because they are unable to follow society's rule. Basic Training / Boot Camp is all about following rules. People in the military who cannot follow rules are kicked out or placed in military prisons. It's not the ability to kill that makes a good soldier, it's the ability to follow orders. Just where do you get your "huge percentage" figure from? I found stats on violent versus non violent crime, but none that break it out by homicide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Violent_and_nonviolent_crime Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. Only 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges. [21][22]

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 5:24:10 AM)
How about all those nasty jobs no one else wants to do: sanitation work, sewage treatment, online support help.... We also have the option of not incarcerating non-violent offenders and drug addicts. As a country I think we could be far more creative in terms of expecting a criminal to compensate his/her victim. As far as expecting people to plan for their retirement, great idea. That's like saying we shouldn't provide public school, people should plan to educate their children. We shouldn't have fire departments, people should plan on not having fires. Shit happens, to everyone. Some shit you can't plan for. And though I don't prfess to have all the solutions, I think it's obvious our social help structures are crumbling under the current economic strain, and will continue to do so until we find better ways of handling age old problems. Let's not be naive here. How a society, any society,cares for its young, elderly and sick is an indicator of how socially advanced that society is, and we in the US are slipping. JMO, YMMV BTW: I am heavily pro death penalty, in those cases where the person has confessed or there is overwhelming proof of murder(s). However, I don't see it as a deterrent, it's government sanctioned killing for the purpose of revenge. It no doubt has a side benefit of providing closure for the victim's family. In a legal sense, the death penalty can not be murder, since murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. The death penalty is government sanctioned (in some states, at least) so technically it can't be murder.

kykitten41 -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 5:28:07 AM)
true the military is about following orders...but so do prisioners have to abide by rules..unlike prisoners..soilders who disobey..will have a pay reduction..leave taken away..ect if its not such a horrible offense..why are they there for...their health? i think not...

0ldhen -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 5:29:44 AM)
Yup.......build a prison state for murderers, rapists, pedophiles, let them loose in it with farm implements, chickens, cows etc......Survive or die. Giant electrified fence, shoot to kill instructions for perimeter guards. That is for the ones of whom it was a circumstantial evidence case. Just shoot the ones actually caught in the act. Next, anybody convicted of other crap, put an electronic bracelet on them, send them home to work, take the fees for the monitoring out of their paycheck. Make drugs legal, control them like booze. Those who are in prison for child support, state owned factories until they are no longer in arrears. Wallah tadah, we just saved billions........

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