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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:26:35 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

What part of his argument does his backstory negate?


You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

Tell me why you think Henry Ford was wrong.


Tell me why you think I think he was wrong, since I didn't any such thing.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/20/2011 8:27:09 PM >

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:33:15 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		wilbeur,

I think the two of you are simply having a miscommunication on this one. The way you wrote your sentence, "he" appears to refer to Henry Ford, when I suspect you mean Meyerson.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:42:28 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
Indeed, supply and demand. I should have added that inflation was just one aspect of wages in relation to the market. I think inflation is an issue too when it comes to inetrnational markets as it restricts labour "demand" in certain countries.


inflation of any type is the enemy of all mankind that is not in direct control of the countries monetary system as they can dance around it like fred astaire and make profits galore.

wrap your hear head around this.

inflation causes a delay going through the market and its the people earning wages who are the most affected from any inflationary whatever (and it ALWAYS increasing!) as they are the last compensated or adjusted for the difference and cannot write it off on income tax either.  (Oh banks can btw)

of course being last adjusted means that they are paying the higher "NEW" prices with "OLD" wage scales until the old boss comes around and gives them a raise if at all!

It works it way through the system, as everyone from government, corps, to the person making minimum wage screams for more money.

I went to the local buger joint today and a buger that was a dollar is now just shy of 2 bucks.

gas is doubled.

suffice to say we have 100% inflation since the year 2000, and the dollar was worth about 1.75 cents then meaning its about .7ish now.

the problem is that inflation is what causes EVERYONE to screaam for more money when in the end its costs no more to milk the damn cow today than is did 100 years ago.  In fact it costs less so why are we paying more?

The money aint worth shit and the last person to get compensated or I should say adjusted is the workers being at an extremely unfair disadantage by comparison to those controlling the monetary system.

and then at the same time employers ALWAYS want concessions along the way from the wage earnings so they often do not get a full adjustments and constantly fall behind.

its a rigged game that economists propagandize in favor of their own agendas.




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/20/2011 8:54:41 PM >

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:46:18 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

wilbeur,

I think the two of you are simply having a miscommunication on this one. The way you wrote your sentence, "he" appears to refer to Henry Ford, when I suspect you mean Meyerson.


Since I didnt respond to the post about Ford that "miscommunication" is hard to come by...unless youre a KenTroll who always is misreading or putting words in people's mouths.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/20/2011 8:47:07 PM >

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:51:11 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Take that tact if you like, but as a professional writer, I'm telling you your sentence says something different than you think. I first thought you meant Ford too.

Of course, if you're looking for an argument, you'll find it anyway somewhere, so carry on.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:53:39 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Take that tact if you like, but as a professional writer, I'm telling you your sentence says something different than you think. I first thought you meant Ford too.

Of course, if you're looking for an argument, you'll find it anyway somewhere, so carry on.


As a professional writer, "he" cant refer to somebody in a post I wasnt responding to! (and iirc was posted before the Ford post was!) Maybe you need to brush up on your reading, like your reading of the NBER and the Bush era recessions.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:55:20 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		OK. Be a dick. Argue on.

I should have known better.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:56:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. Be a dick. Argue on.

I should have known better.


Whatever, I'll be waiting for you to correct your error in the other thread.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:59:31 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"One of those crazy Marxists who thinks that laborers have a right to the owner's profits even though they take no risk."

No risk ? Seems to me labor did take risks. Took jobs with the promise of advancement and opportunity, devoted themselves and paid high loyalty to the company.

However it is a physical fact that loyalty has no mass, it goes up but it doesn't come down. However sometimes it doesn't go up. Some unions have abused the power of collective bargaining, notably some public employee unions, some UAW and teamsters etc., but unions were initially formed to gain footing against exploitation.

Take Henry Ford, he paid unprecedented wages, and required very hard work for it. Many people couldn't hack it there. But those who could were rewarded. There was no need for a union back then. Well last I heard Ford Motor Co. was unionized. Why ? What changed ?

Did the taste of le dolche vita breed greed or did the company change ? My Father worked for a company before it was unionized, he said it was great. When the union came, things went downhill and he left. Not all unions benefit the members. The only thing I can think of that unions always benefit is unions, save a very few. Some have extensive training and apprenticeship programs and are truly worthwhile. But most have one thing in common, that ultimately the employer bears the educational costs in one way or another. But is that wrong ?

In our divisive culture, you decide whether you think that is wrong or right, and you do it based on your own best interests, not on the society as a whole. And that divisiveness in and of itself indicates that some think that to have one ounce of patriotism or loyalty to anyone is socialism or communism, or something of the sort.

Is it true or not ?

T^T

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 9:07:47 PM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
Indeed, supply and demand. I should have added that inflation was just one aspect of wages in relation to the market. I think inflation is an issue too when it comes to inetrnational markets as it restricts labour "demand" in certain countries.

It works it way through the system, as everyone from government, corps, to the person making minimum wage screams for more money.

The two principle sources of inflation or deflation are employee and consumer. If it goes up one one side it tends to increase on the other with greater demands.

quote:


I went to the local buger joint today and a buger that was a dollar is now just shy of 2 bucks.

They saw you coming.

quote:


suffice to say we have 100% inflation since the year 2000, and the dollar was worth about 1.75 cents then meaning its about .7ish now.

If it was 100% inflation I think it would be about .8 cents now but you must be going by some ancient standard as clearly cents have also gone down in value. The value of money roughly halves every decade.

quote:


the problem is that inflation is what causes EVERYONE to screaam for more money when in the end its costs no more to milk the damn cow today than is did 100 years ago.  In fact it costs less so why are we paying more?

No it costs way more. Farmers often don't make any money rearing and selling livestock due to the cost of feed and labour.

quote:


and then at the same time employers ALWAYS want concessions along the way from the wage earnings so they often do not get a full adjustments and constantly fall behind.

its a rigged game that economists propagandize in favor of their own agendas.

Many employers do indeed. With regard to economists my answer would be sometimes but not always. There are many left wing economists. A fairly famous one lives nearby.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 9:16:31 PM   
Palliata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Take that tact if you like, but as a professional writer, I'm telling you your sentence says something different than you think. I first thought you meant Ford too.

Of course, if you're looking for an argument, you'll find it anyway somewhere, so carry on.


As a professional writer, you should probably be aware that the word you want is 'tack' not "tact;" the expression is using the practice of taking a specific line relative to the wind on a sailboat as a metaphor for employing a specific rhetorical approach. It's usually best not to correct others until your own house is in order.


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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 9:22:44 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Take that tact if you like, but as a professional writer, I'm telling you your sentence says something different than you think. I first thought you meant Ford too.

Of course, if you're looking for an argument, you'll find it anyway somewhere, so carry on.


As a professional writer, you should probably be aware that the word you want is 'tack' not "tact;" the expression is using the practice of taking a specific line relative to the wind on a sailboat as a metaphor for employing a specific rhetorical approach. It's usually best not to correct others until your own house is in order.



He's usually a reasonable person but occasionally someone apparently pees in his coffee. You can forgive him a typo/usage error now and then.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 9:31:19 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		 To the topic, it's supply and demand.  Reduce the size of the labor pool, say by drastically increasing military recruitment as one possible element of that, employers will be forced to pay quality workers more to keep them.


edit cuz somebody already explained to Muse about te sailing metaphor

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 7/20/2011 9:32:51 PM >

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 9:31:48 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

'tack' not "tact;"


You're correct. Sorry.

The point, though, wasn't a correction, but clearing up a misunderstanding.

But the misunderstanding was willful, so yes, I should have let it go.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 9:42:24 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

 To the topic, it's supply and demand.  Reduce the size of the labor pool, say by drastically increasing military recruitment as one possible element of that, employers will be forced to pay quality workers more to keep them.


edit cuz somebody already explained to Muse about te sailing metaphor


Doubly fucked...you have to pay the military, draining resources from the private sector, and you decrease the labor pool. Im surprised Obama hasnt proposed it!

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 9:44:32 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

'tack' not "tact;"


You're correct. Sorry.

The point, though, wasn't a correction, but clearing up a misunderstanding.

But the misunderstanding was willful, so yes, I should have let it go.


Yeah, KenDoll does that often.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 10:02:38 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

To the topic, it's supply and demand.  Reduce the size of the labor pool, say by drastically increasing military recruitment as one possible element of that, employers will be forced to pay quality workers more to keep them.


Doubly fucked...you have to pay the military, draining resources from the private sector, and you decrease the labor pool. Im surprised Obama hasnt proposed it!



Look, Wilbur,  government takes in money, and spends it.  Get as pissy as you like (and there's plenty to get pissy about!) about how it gets squandered, but get over the fact of it.  Providing for the common defense is one of those things ours is supposed to do.

This is even an "investment" where we get something substantial and lasting in return for our dollars.  It's not like there isn't plenty for them to do, either.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 10:08:18 PM   
imperatrixx


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Status: offline 		I like how Willbur is so wacky that even the conservatives have to explain shit to him.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 10:09:46 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

To the topic, it's supply and demand.  Reduce the size of the labor pool, say by drastically increasing military recruitment as one possible element of that, employers will be forced to pay quality workers more to keep them.


Doubly fucked...you have to pay the military, draining resources from the private sector, and you decrease the labor pool. Im surprised Obama hasnt proposed it!



Look, Wilbur,  government takes in money, and spends it.  Get as pissy as you like (and there's plenty to get pissy about!) about how it gets squandered, but get over the fact of it.  Providing for the common defense is one of those things ours is supposed to do.

This is even an "investment" where we get something substantial and lasting in return for our dollars.  It's not like there isn't plenty for them to do, either.


Oh, we dont disagree there. I was commenting on his scheme to hire more military than you actually need just to shrink the private labor pool. broken window fallacy redux

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 10:10:49 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

I like how Willbur is so wacky that even the conservatives have to explain shit to him.


I like how you never have a fucking clue what youre commenting on.

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