Unnecessary Roughness

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LadyPact -> Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 11:01:38 AM)
I don't watch a lot of tv, but the title and the concept for this thread literally comes from a new show that's been aired recently. If you haven't seen it, the basic premise for it is this: The main character of this show is a female therapist. Some of her clients are professional athletes that she is attempting to help them resolve their issues so they can do better in their careers. In the meantime, her life seems to be an absolute mess. She's thrown her husband out for cheating on her and going through a messy divorce. Her two children are teens, one of whom is acquiring a criminal record. She's broke, which is why she is adding clients to her practice which seem to add chaos to her life. In the meantime, it seems that she's jumping into a new relationship(s) before her anger at her soon to be ex is even resolved. As I'm watching this, I couldn't help thinking continually that it's probably a good idea to straighten out one's own life instead of trying to fix other people. Is there literally no other therapist in this town who has their act together? Why on earth would somebody want a person who can't even manage their life, relationships, and children to try to help them with their own life? Yet, isn't it funny that we see this same thing on this site all of the time? Folks who have their own mess of a relationship plastered all over the board trying to advise others on how to run a household? Sometimes, even people who are a mess themselves, aren't planted in reality, or not quite competent in some way, even for everyday living, want to dip into this particular section of the BDSM pool. Just thought I'd throw that out there to see what people think.

Kaliko -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 11:09:41 AM)
I think it's interesting to hear different perspectives, even if I don't take their advice. I recently had someone say to me "Why are you so weak?" This was coming from a woman whose husband put her in a neck brace, yet she's still with him. But, just because I think her marriage to an abusive husband is a wreck, that doesn't mean she doesn't have a point about my life that maybe I haven't seen before. It certainly got me thinking. So, I suppose same could go here for the boards. Even if someone is posting on a topic that they currently find themselves up in the air about in their own lives, I don't think that means they don't have anything valuable to say. Shoot, I would have to sign off CM completely. :)

RapierFugue -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 11:13:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact As I'm watching this, I couldn't help thinking continually that it's probably a good idea to straighten out one's own life instead of trying to fix other people. Is there literally no other therapist in this town who has their act together? Why on earth would somebody want a person who can't even manage their life, relationships, and children to try to help them with their own life? I've worked with a lot of Mental Health professionals over the years (as part of a previous job, not employing them, I should mention). They're generally at least as fucked-up as their patients, and frequently more so. I've never been able to work out if it's because exposure to so much lunacy, and so many flaky people, turned them a bit odd, or whether they were drawn to a life working in mental health because of their own inherent issues.

kalikshama -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 11:21:03 AM)
This makes me think of Running With Scissors. I know someone who was a patient of Dr. Turcotte (renamed Dr. Finch in the memoir) - and he was well portrayed by the author.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 11:23:47 AM)
I've seen the show and I'm enjoying it so far. From what I understand, it's based on a real woman and her life story. One of the things that I think is important to remember is that this is a Hollywood dramatization of a professional therapist. Hollywood always makes things more dramatic and messy than they are in reality, so that's already a less than ideal place to begin if we're going to draw comparisons. Another important point is that professional counselors are trained in compartmentalization and a variety of techniques for helping clients. Her job isn't to "fix" her clients, it's to help them discover the answers to their own problems. Her personal life has no bearing on how well she can do her job. As for whether or not one's personal problems have any bearing on whether or not one should be offering any advice on a message board, or whether or not those problems have any relevance on the value of the aforementioned advice, my answer is: It depends. I'm not going to give as much value to the opinions of someone who has no experience with WIITWD if I'm looking for practical advice on how to improve my flogging technique. However, that person might have valuable insights on relationships by the simple fact that an adult of almost any age is going to have at least a little experience in that area. By the same token, it doesn't matter whether or not someone has his/her house in order if the person has experience with whatever the topic is. Just because things aren't going well right now doesn't mean others can't learn from that person's past experiences, including the mistakes. If the person is a perpetual trainwreck and the mess is plastered all over the boards...well, that tells me that anything the person has to say is suspect, but is probably a fairly good guide to what NOT to do. It's even possible the wrong advice can lead someone to travel down another line of thought and arrive at a better solution. I'm an advocate of the saying "all knowledge is worth having". It doesn't matter where the knowledge comes from, I still want it, even if I end up doing the exact opposite.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 11:43:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact As I'm watching this, I couldn't help thinking continually that it's probably a good idea to straighten out one's own life instead of trying to fix other people. Is there literally no other therapist in this town who has their act together? Why on earth would somebody want a person who can't even manage their life, relationships, and children to try to help them with their own life? Yet, isn't it funny that we see this same thing on this site all of the time? Folks who have their own mess of a relationship plastered all over the board trying to advise others on how to run a household? Sometimes, even people who are a mess themselves, aren't planted in reality, or not quite competent in some way, even for everyday living, want to dip into this particular section of the BDSM pool. Before I went to study languages, I had a stab at psychology and pedagogics, most of the people working in the field or getting into the field were trying to sort others as a way to sort their own life, if that makes sense? I stubborned it out as I didn't want to throw the towel without anything to show for and did the degree, but it was obvious that I couldn't work in the field, the most valuable lesson I took away from this was that it's impossible to actually help somebody professionally if you do become too involved, you have to stay aloof and removed to see the whole picture, once you get dragged in your emotions will cloud your responses and professional handling of the situation. After doing an internship with abused children, I knew I could never work in the job, I'm just not able to remain emotionally unphased. I think part of it is that people are trying to find a solution outside to not concentrate on their own problems and it's possibly a displacement reaction, part of it might be that the emotional pressures of the job become too much and they kinda crumble under the pressure?

TreasureKY -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 12:10:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact ... Why on earth would somebody want a person who can't even manage their life, relationships, and children to try to help them with their own life? Yet, isn't it funny that we see this same thing on this site all of the time? Folks who have their own mess of a relationship plastered all over the board trying to advise others on how to run a household? Sometimes, even people who are a mess themselves, aren't planted in reality, or not quite competent in some way, even for everyday living, want to dip into this particular section of the BDSM pool. I'm not familiar with the program, but that's not surprising. Firm and I just don't really watch television... most of it is just trash and a waste of time. I'm not adverse to doling out general relationship advice, but I typically avoid giving specific counsel to individuals here. It isn't because my own house is disorderly... to the contrary, it is quite tidy. It is essentially because in my experience, people seek advice not because they wish to find a path to follow, but because they want sympathy, validation, or commiseration. I also recognize that it is much easier to give advice than it is to follow it. Even persons whose lives are a wreck can usually tell you exactly where they went wrong and what they should have done. It isn't that they don't already know... it's just a lot harder to put that knowledge to practice.

Epytropos -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 12:36:49 PM)
I'll give you the 'party line' on this issue, so to speak, and you can take it or leave it. A clinical psychologist or psychiatrist is not in the business of giving advice. They are not there to tell you what to do in your relationships, or how to behave at work, or anything like that. They are there to provide psychological and psychiatric care for your mind. Hence, their ability or inability to run a relationship/household/practice/underground battle robot fight ring is irrelevant, because they aren't there to teach you how to do that in the first place. They are there to provide medical care for your psychological state. Again, take it or leave it. That's the official stance on this issue.

erieangel -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 1:24:08 PM)
I work in the mental health field. I am also a mental health patient. I have been a patient for almost 20 prior to my entering the field 3 years ago. Should I have not chosen that field because I face or have faced similar issues as those I serve?? On the contrary. My clients are young men who range in age from 18-24. I have lived through much of what they are going through. By sharing my real-life experiences, they are more likely to make informed decisions of the consequences than when they speak with their therapists or doctors. Mostly, I teach them independent living skills, socialization and budgeting. However, some of the things I work on with my clients, I have issues with as well. But my issues do not come into play when I am working with my clients. There are proper ways to clean a house. Do I always practice that way at home? No. Do I teach my clients the proper methods? You bet. If I didn't know and couldn't teach them, I wouldn't have a job. Do I feel comfortable walking up to a stranger and engaging them in conversation? No. My social phobia often prevents me from doing so. Am I able to do so comfortably when I have one or more of clients in a public/social setting? Yes, somehow those times are easy for me. Probably because I am not invested so much in what the person I am approaching thinks of me. I have a vastly different mindset when I am on the job, one in which my personal issues play a part. In short, I have two different personas. My personal life may be somewhat of a disaster by many people's standards. My persona at work is one of a responsible, competent individual.

slaveluci -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 3:15:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Yet, isn't it funny that we see this same thing on this site all of the time? Folks who have their own mess of a relationship plastered all over the board trying to advise others on how to run a household? Sometimes, even people who are a mess themselves, aren't planted in reality, or not quite competent in some way, even for everyday living, want to dip into this particular section of the BDSM pool. Just thought I'd throw that out there to see what people think. Good questions and several comments pop into my mind. First, I think whether it's on these boards or just life in general, it's easy to look at another's problems and give them what may be some good advice even if we don't follow it ourselves. In the first place, we can be much more objective and rational about other people's issues than our own. Also, just because we don't put things into motion in our own lives doesn't mean we're not smart enough to see what the right thing is to do, especially if it's someone else who needs to be doing it. Whether the problems are romantic, financial, job-related or whatever, it's rare that I can't hear someone's story and think of some great solutions. Now whether or not I'd actually put those solutions into play in my own life is hard to say. Whether it's our own problems or someone else's, it's much easier to think up a solution than it is to put it into action[:)] Kinda reminds me of that old adage about the cobbler's children having no shoes or the carpenter having the worst house in the neighborhood.....the person who can come up with the best solutions for others may simply be the worst at putting those solutions into play in their own lives..........luci

DomImus -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 4:41:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact As I'm watching this, I couldn't help thinking continually that it's probably a good idea to straighten out one's own life instead of trying to fix other people. That's because you operate from the same flawed perspective that most people operate from - namely that one must be able to practice what they preach. From a logical or ethical standpoint does it make sense? Yes. Is it a prerequisite to effective preaching? No.

LadyPact -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 9:42:10 PM)
Some really interesting replies. I want to thank everyone for their participation thus far. Syl, your post reminded Me of the old saying. If it's not a good example, at least it provides a fair warning. Sometimes, when I see overall chaos associated with a certain person, I know that they are advocating a path that I would rather not tread. LadyC, you bring an interesting point. We are often swayed by our emotions. When giving advice to another, even if we are fond of that person, we don't have the same kind of distortion when the problem exists first hand. At times, this might give us clarity for others that we don't have within ourselves. Treasure, we must have the same habits, at least regarding television. It is rare, if ever, that I sit and watch tv. I agree that many folks come here for sympathy or validation. I have other thoughts that extend on this, but I may leave that for another thread. Ep, I do understand the party answer. Yet, in that stock answer, it's worth asking why such a person would not apply the same to their own life? Why would I, if I were seeking help, not want to find a professional who could do this successfully? As you might know, erie, I can respect anyone who can focus on being a professional. In many areas, I find that folks who have gotten past their own issues are the best folks who can advise others. However, if I had two options of professionals, one who has conquered their own issues and one who has not, I would be seeking the council of the former. I'm very fond of proven success. Imus, you just made Me feel old-fashioned, in a good kind of way. [:)]

Termyn8or -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 10:19:43 PM)
"I've worked with a lot of Mental Health professionals over the years (as part of a previous job, not employing them, I should mention). They're generally at least as fucked-up as their patients, and frequently more so. " Cleanup in post three. T^T

Termyn8or -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 10:23:26 PM)
"A clinical psychologist or psychiatrist is not in the business of giving advice. They are not there to tell you what to do in your relationships, or how to behave at work, or anything like that." Zzactly. And they are not going to help you. The ones who know what the fuck they're doing will teach you how to help yourself. T^T

Termyn8or -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/23/2011 10:39:30 PM)
That and that said, do you consider these shows to be informative or what ? I really wonder. Would you call Marcus Welby for medical advice ? T^T

HannahLynHeather -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/24/2011 11:33:27 AM)
quote: I'm an advocate of the saying "all knowledge is worth having". It doesn't matter where the knowledge comes from, I still want it, even if I end up doing the exact opposite. that's why i fucking love ya syl. not only do you know how to use a whip, you're as smart as one too.

impishlilhellcat -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/24/2011 11:41:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I don't watch a lot of tv, but the title and the concept for this thread literally comes from a new show that's been aired recently. If you haven't seen it, the basic premise for it is this: The main character of this show is a female therapist. Some of her clients are professional athletes that she is attempting to help them resolve their issues so they can do better in their careers. In the meantime, her life seems to be an absolute mess. She's thrown her husband out for cheating on her and going through a messy divorce. Her two children are teens, one of whom is acquiring a criminal record. She's broke, which is why she is adding clients to her practice which seem to add chaos to her life. In the meantime, it seems that she's jumping into a new relationship(s) before her anger at her soon to be ex is even resolved. As I'm watching this, I couldn't help thinking continually that it's probably a good idea to straighten out one's own life instead of trying to fix other people. Is there literally no other therapist in this town who has their act together? Why on earth would somebody want a person who can't even manage their life, relationships, and children to try to help them with their own life? Yet, isn't it funny that we see this same thing on this site all of the time? Folks who have their own mess of a relationship plastered all over the board trying to advise others on how to run a household? Sometimes, even people who are a mess themselves, aren't planted in reality, or not quite competent in some way, even for everyday living, want to dip into this particular section of the BDSM pool. Just thought I'd throw that out there to see what people think. For me in my in my own personal life and experiences... Most of the time it's a lot easier for me to be clear and level headed about someone else's problems than it is my own. Sometimes I panic and have that deer in headlights when I'm dealing with my own personal issues(the big ones not every day problems). That's why it helps for me to have a sounding board someone to seek guidance from I'm just too close to the problem. Or sometimes I just feel overwhelmed. When my SO or a friend has a problem I'm clear as day and can problem solve like there's no tomorrow. That doesn't mean I'm not still surrounded by chaos and my world isn't still falling apart. I just happen to be a step back from the problem and I'm looking at it differently than they are.

PeonForHer -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/24/2011 12:27:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue I've never been able to work out if it's because exposure to so much lunacy, and so many flaky people, turned them a bit odd, or whether they were drawn to a life working in mental health because of their own inherent issues. The latter would make more sense. It could be that it takes someone with an experience of problems in the head department in order to be able to understand, empathise and help with them in someone else. Likewise: me, I'd rather consult a mountaineer who's had accidents and learned how to avoid them on lots of difficult ascents, rather than someone who has never even climbed a mountain.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/24/2011 1:46:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact In many areas, I find that folks who have gotten past their own issues are the best folks who can advise others. However, if I had two options of professionals, one who has conquered their own issues and one who has not, I would be seeking the council of the former. I'm very fond of proven success. Something crossed my mind, I'm really interested in nutrition and healthy eating, my body just functions better, and one thing I noticed is that a lot of obese chicks have an awesome knowledge about healthy food and nutrition, they just seem to be incapable of integrating it into their lifestyle. Reminds me a bit of people who buy those expensive self-help books and then put them on the shelf unread.

OLRICHSLAVE -> RE: Unnecessary Roughness (7/25/2011 5:02:05 AM)
So right You are, i have known of two rather large ladies ( I know i am walking a tight rope here ) who both worked as Nutrition experts in Old People,s Homes, And i have a Uncle who is a Psychiatrist who to me is one of the Dumbist people on earth, He might be book smart but has no common sencse at all, I think Collage was a place he could hang out to stay out of the draff during Veitman, just my opinion and i am sticking with it

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