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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 12:40:07 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear kisshou, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I do understand, that many individuals just talk the talk and walk the walk phrase. The cyber chat rooms seem to have been the root of this phrase. Perhaps it was borrowed from Television and adopted. Regardless, so many cyber folks can talk but, when they met real time, were unable to do what they spoke of.

Nobody will be an expert in all things. I have repeatedly admitted that I do not know all things and experienced everything within the lifestyle.
However, I do speak on things I have experienced and have first hand knowledge about.

As another has posted, everybody has an opinion about the matter to which is the subject of the topic. In addition, there will be those who will have had an experience with a certain toy, for example a cane. Each dominant has a different style, technique and the cane's behavior will manifest itself differently, no matter who used the same cane. In addition, the cane will feel different on every individual slave/submissive and or bottom. Positions, emotions and how the chemicals in the body, medicines and other factors all figure into the final effect. And, in so many cases words fail to express the feeling.

Although I do my own research, studies and such in historical areas of BDSM, I will never be able to feel what took place in that time, regardless how old I feel. Then theory can be a thought of what might have been and can be proven and or disproven. Talk can come from personal feelings, research and experiences. Some can be totally bent on putting bad information out there entirely. Some can put productive information out there.

Everybody must be their own advocate to get educated, get first hand experience and as many different experiences with the same item. Unfortunately, if we're prone to be wary of something, the first bad experience may thwart further experiences of the same thing. It might be the wrong technique and not the item itself that is the issue.

I think in 'the whole,' people that come to the forum such as this--do try in "good faith" to share experiences as to help aid in the endless quest of all individuals to exhaust the avenues of knowledge. Some write books, some write on web sites, some post in different venues like CM and some share in the chat rooms. Some share only in front of an audience.

However, I find it sad, that some individuals need to be disrespectful to others expressing their thoughts, comments and observations.

Negative experiences do need to be aired and why it came to be a negative experience. The exploring of how to have come to be an negative experience can perhaps provoke thought as to the possibility of options/remedies to turn it into a positive. e.g. change of technique, change of position, etc.

I am in agreement with so many posters, that there is no replacement of feeling and or doing it personally. The words may fail but, the experience establishes what words cannot express.

Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 5:36:53 PM

twicehappy

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Education is important but experience is more so. It is one thing to read how to do suspension without injuring your partner and another to actually do it.

I think this rule applies to about everything we do in life.

I was a nurse yet the reality of dealing with a dementia patient is a far cry from what they teach you in school. You can read a drivers manual but i will not be getting in the car with you until you have had some practice.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 6:34:02 PM

IronBear

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You walk the walk, talk the talk and live the life..... Without some education experience is difficult to get safely and adequately in many areas of life... One of the problem some like me have with BDSM is the refusal of acceptance by many BDSMers who know you are experienced in Gor (Learning and practical) yet are new to BDSM. To many they are both the same. Given that Goreans do not do BDSM nor is Owning a Slave necessary to live a Gorean Lifestyle, it is not hard to understand why some are new to BDSM or at least are new to many of the BDSM activities.. Yet heving experience in owning and training a slave does add to the experience but not necessarily in all aspects of the specrtrum.. What could be looked at is the source of information anyone works from. For Gor the books should be the primary source and then if there are people about who are happy to help having a good association with others in the lifestyle who are experienced is excelent.

On my own part I fit into the above catagory and have stated it on many occasions and I my profile that I consider myself a Newby to BDSM Play. However this does not mean that I am ignorant of what goes on. I. perhaps am lucky in that as well as reading on those subject which interest me, have friends who are very experienced Dominants in BDSM and a few submissives. Every time we go to Club Lib I spend time both watching and talking to people who have been more than happy to discuss their play and techniques, safety and dangers.... Weekly I'm talking to various friends and especiqlly with a special friend who is in effect my BDSM Mentor who is also a Pro Domme. (All that is missing is either slaves in HIB or a play partner to gain experience with). All of us in our own areas can in deed walk the walk, talk the talk and live thelife according to our leverls of experience and desires.. I probably could have a disclaimer in a word file to place on every post to explain this but ...naaaaaa.... What I do is mostly (I think) show that my comments are my thoughts on any matter. I usually prefer to treat most subjects logically and from a non technical vioew unless iot deals with explicits in which I believe I have sufficient experience and training to speak with authoritory. Some of the est items of advise I've ever been given in any area of my life has come from people who kew nothing about the subject and looked at the problem as through the eyes of a babe.... I'm reminded of the quote "Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings...."

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 10:37:11 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

it is, of course, possible to come up with examples of situations where experience wins over education, but it is equally possible to construct counter examples

Interesting. I suppose if one makes the assumption that the said experience is 'limited' in scope, I could think of situations where someone with nothing but knowledge gained from books might 'know' more than someone without any knowledge from reading at all. Learning things like 'no strike' zones and things of that nature which one wouldn't necessarily know through practical application of a whip or crop, but I'm not sure with the plethora of knowledge available now days that it would be so easy to see such as the norm. The first thing that newbies are told these days is to read, read, read.. then go out and play so they are getting the best of both worlds and have an advantage over the old timers who played, played, played.. then had to catch up on the reading material as it became available.

Celeste

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 10:54:17 PM

subtlesubie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

Does someone have to have climbed a mountain to give advice on mountain climbing, or is reading about it, studying it and watching movies about it enough?

Someone who has not climbed can offer information and advice, but someone who has will know much, much more.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/20/2006 8:20:52 AM

Arpig

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quote:

The cyber chat rooms seem to have been the root of this phrase.

?????????????????????????????? I am pretty certain it predates cyber...so certain in fact that I used the phrase personally long before there was a cyber anything.
The phrase doesn't really refer to experience vs. learning, but rather it means if you are going to claim to be something you had better actually go be it.
It is easy to claim you are a master (or mountain climber, or race car driver, etc.), and it is pretty easy to pass yourself of as one while talking, therefore one can talk the talk (ie. speak the jargon), but not so easy to fake when one has to actually do whatever it is one claims to know how to do (walk the walk). Thus the phrase really is akin to "put your money where your mouth is" or "put up or shut up".

However, the OP actually asked about theoretical as opposed to practical knowledge, and for that the answer is: it depends.

There is nothing at all wrong with the advice of a person learned in the "theory" of any practice, it is no less truthful or useful because of that...what matters is how the person represents themselves....if said book-learner represents themselves as somebody with great knowledge but no little experience, then one can take their advice keeping that in mind, however if they represent themselves as an expert with expperience, then taking their advice might be dangerous, depending on what it is....I doubt one needs a whole lot of experience to know how to give a bare-handed otk spanking....but a bull whipping is an entirely different question. Therefore, it depends on what the question is, and how the person offering advice portrays themselves and the basis of their knowledge.

Myself, I have never bullwhipped anybody or anything, but I do have rather a lot of information I have gathered on the subject, and am therfore qualified to pass on that information, however I would be remiss if I didn't pass on the info with the caveat that it was all 2nd hand, and that I had not actually confirmed it in practice.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/20/2006 9:54:01 AM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlesubie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

Does someone have to have climbed a mountain to give advice on mountain climbing, or is reading about it, studying it and watching movies about it enough?

Someone who has not climbed can offer information and advice, but someone who has will know much, much more.

A thought on this one and using the same analogy of mountain climbing (something which I suck at these days anyway and not enough experience as I would have liked), A good theorist (I.E. one who has the theory from reading material by those who are recognised by a lifestyle or sport etc and through talking and being taught the theory by those who have the experience and are perhaps professionals) can advise on genaralities and theory but it takes some one with experience to teach how and where to place hands and feet on a practice climb where all the safety is there.... To learn to fly either a fixed wing or a rotary wing aircraft there is one hell of a lot of theory taught before you even get into the cockpit. Then you are taken for a flight or two without you touching the controls, then you fly again with the instructoir taking off and landing but when safely in the air you are allowed to learn (experience) the handling of the aircraft. Later you do endless practice take offs and landing and finally one day you head out to the training aircraft with the instructor and then as you are clinbing aboard, he tells you that you are going solo..... Ok this will differ from flight school to flight school but I've shortened it for brevity and I guess you see what I'm saying anyway.....

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/20/2006 11:50:36 AM

Dustyn

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Experience is always a good thing, but it's not always the best thing, all told. Knowing the what without knowing the why can be more dangerous than an epilleptic with a chainsaw.

- Dustyn

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/21/2006 1:30:15 AM

Estring

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It all depends on the subject. Reading a book about flying a plane doesn't make you a pilot. On the other hand, you don't have to be able to lay an egg to know you were served a bad one.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/21/2006 2:27:20 AM

Wulfchyld

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I wonder where Greysaber is to eju-ma-kayt us all.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/21/2006 4:22:52 AM

philosophy

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to be honest, i think that most people with good hearts attempt to get both education and experience, and we can all probably agree that to have both is more desireable than to have just eithe rone on its own. My only real gripe is with those who appear to feel that either their educational achievements or massive wealth of experience mean they have no room left to improve in.......arrogance is the solvent for both education and experience....too much and both just dissolve away.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/21/2006 3:21:51 PM

degradess

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It's been my experience that you don't know anything about the roles domme or sub unless you've felt that whip on you ass or used it on someone else.....

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/21/2006 6:39:37 PM

Saratov

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

Its one thing to read about a caning. Its something else altogether when that cane is used on your bottom.

Been telling people for years... real spankings hurt more than cyber or even self spankings.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/22/2006 10:37:10 AM

ADomDoc

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Heck ... I read a thread this morning ... lots of opinions by people talking through their hats! An honest answer to the opening question required SOME knowledge of chemistry & physiology ... 95% of the responses demonstrated NO knowledge of either of the above & gave blatantly incorrect advice.

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you are a fool, than to open your mouth and erase all doubt." -- Mark Twain

As one person has said above ... it's great to theorize about a singletail ... but that will never substitute for the experience. Theory can never conjure up endorphins that r/l experience can. Theory can never create subspace ... only r/l experience can.

Theory & online learning are good only so far as they make a person more able to start making an intelligent decision about whether to get involved in r/l experience. Most subs claim no interest in fire play or electrical play or hypnosis ... fair enough if they are knowledgeable about the topics ... but of those I've talked to ... 90% had no real understanding (or bad misunderstandings) of what those activities entailed and turned out to really like those activities after being safely introduced to them.

I initially had a misconception about bullwhips until The Barbarian in Houston taught me how to play the sensual end of the bullwhip and multiple techniques w/ singletails. I'll never be as good as he was on his bad days ... but I can play with the big boys now.

We ALL start out, all mouth & no play. We ALL have to learn & get experience. But there's a mile-wide gap between those who continue to be all talk ... and folks who have extensive experience.

Like in anything else, experience counts for more than booklearning ...in medicine for example ... would you prefer to have a surgeon w/ 2000 operations of experience ... or a new intern ... doing your open heart surgery?

ADomDoc
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