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We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 11:49:56 AM   
AlwaysLisa


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I had no idea.   We just spent an hour, with our service provider, going through all the wireless options for our internet connection.  It seems, that people can tap into your connection, via satellite or WiFi.  

I'll admit, I am slow to pick up on the techy stuff, but this floored me.   All of a sudden, we were unable to view a video without constant buffering, pages were taking longer to load, etc...on high speed!   Don't ask me how, but I stumbled onto the User page, there was a persons name listed that shouldn't have been there.   This person, was using our connection.

We have things blocked for now, and I hope it stays that way, the mystery person hasn't been back on.  

I'm sharing this, in case anyone else is working from the stone age, and unfamiliar with the current techy stuff and all that can be done.   Check your Users...you might not be alone.  




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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 11:52:14 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

I'm sharing this, in case anyone else is working from the stone age, and unfamiliar with the current techy stuff and all that can be done.   Check your Users...you might not be alone.  


All someone has to do is set up encryption, and all will be well. It's not difficult.

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 12:09:53 PM   
DavidLee44UK


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Joined: 5/13/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

I had no idea.   We just spent an hour, with our service provider, going through all the wireless options for our internet connection.  It seems, that people can tap into your connection, via satellite or WiFi.  

I'll admit, I am slow to pick up on the techy stuff, but this floored me.   All of a sudden, we were unable to view a video without constant buffering, pages were taking longer to load, etc...on high speed!   Don't ask me how, but I stumbled onto the User page, there was a persons name listed that shouldn't have been there.   This person, was using our connection.

We have things blocked for now, and I hope it stays that way, the mystery person hasn't been back on.  

I'm sharing this, in case anyone else is working from the stone age, and unfamiliar with the current techy stuff and all that can be done.   Check your Users...you might not be alone.  





yep if you havent got the highest security and even then

even if you share a printer

but even if you close it might still be there might have dropped malware or a cookie that still gives them access

you run a check yet

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 12:11:42 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
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Nothing is difficult if you have the knowledge. 

I finally made the leap from Win98, lets just say I'm not computer saavy or up to snuff on all things techy :)  It was somewhat disturbing to find out others could tap into my connection.


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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 12:36:24 PM   
LaTigresse


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Here at work, if I turn on my laptop I see a dozen or so option for wireless.......unless the individuals have their happy little worlds password protected it is as though they are advertizing "use us!" And, as others have said, getting past that is not difficult at all.

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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 12:57:35 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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I am free of wireless at home and office. I want the wireless at home so I can have the interwebs on my laptop, but meh. I have the android phone. Less to worry about.

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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 1:02:36 PM   
baddaddy2009


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LaTigresse, and everyone else, be aware that sometimes an "open wireless access point" is open on purpose. Connecting to "free wifi" may sound like a good idea at the airport or your local coffee shop, but these open connections can be used to grab YOUR personal information; things like, oh, say, your CM ID and password!

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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 1:06:18 PM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: baddaddy2009

LaTigresse, and everyone else, be aware that sometimes an "open wireless access point" is open on purpose. Connecting to "free wifi" may sound like a good idea at the airport or your local coffee shop, but these open connections can be used to grab YOUR personal information; things like, oh, say, your CM ID and password!


Not unless you're running a wide-open system, and have the brains of a turnip.

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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 1:45:53 PM   
DavidLee44UK


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i use this

the firewall aspect is most useful

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yoggie-Gatekeeper-Internet-Hardware-Security/dp/B003ERZYRU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311972224&sr=8-1

(in reply to RapierFugue)
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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 1:55:43 PM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidLee44UK

i use this

the firewall aspect is most useful

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yoggie-Gatekeeper-Internet-Hardware-Security/dp/B003ERZYRU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311972224&sr=8-1



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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 2:04:07 PM   
Epytropos


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Joined: 7/23/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: baddaddy2009

LaTigresse, and everyone else, be aware that sometimes an "open wireless access point" is open on purpose. Connecting to "free wifi" may sound like a good idea at the airport or your local coffee shop, but these open connections can be used to grab YOUR personal information; things like, oh, say, your CM ID and password!


Not unless you're running a wide-open system, and have the brains of a turnip.


Firesheep will pick up on cookies sent over a public network effortlessly. Doesn't even take a modicum of skill - its a fucking Firefox extension. Sending info over unsecured networks is dangerous, and there are many examples (especially in high-density cities like Tokyo or NYC) of people settting up unsecured networks and stealing the info of people who connect.

And yes, you can connect to things exclusively with ssl, but many sites don't support it. Short of having a server of your own to tunnel to or a VPN, connecting to an unencrypted wifi is risky.

Moral of the story: Don't involve yourself with tech you don't fully understand, because there's always risks involved.


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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 2:13:20 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: baddaddy2009

LaTigresse, and everyone else, be aware that sometimes an "open wireless access point" is open on purpose. Connecting to "free wifi" may sound like a good idea at the airport or your local coffee shop, but these open connections can be used to grab YOUR personal information; things like, oh, say, your CM ID and password!


I don't use open or free at airports, though I have been known using the open wifis around here when for some odd reason ours were down, some neighbours don't have their wifi password protected and if I'm sitting outside and I get a better signal from them, I have been known to use it.

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Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to baddaddy2009)
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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 2:33:58 PM   
littlewonder


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hey i"m thankful for open connections. When I was in between moves and was waiting to get my internet and cable connected it came in quite handy. While none of the neighbors had open connections I was able to go to the park across the street and a few coffeeshops just a few blocks away and connect through them. It was useful when I had to get online to change an address or contact someone. Otherwise I would have had to make ten thousand calls and use..shudder...snail mail.

I have my connections set up so only two other people can connect through it but they still need to know the password to do so.


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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 2:53:37 PM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

hey i"m thankful for open connections.


People confuse "open" connections with "open" systems and “open” data; they are not the same things.

Generally speaking (and yes it's a generalisation), open connections in public places are fine if you are either passing encrypted data, or if your system is modern enough to have reasonable security built-in. Modern systems (anything from Vista onwards for PCs, or OSX for Macs, or relatively recent builds of Android/WinP/etc.) are pretty good at protecting data themselves, but obviously if you're passing vital data (banking details, credit cards, etc) then you need to be sure your system is using encryption, or you’re on a secure (exclusive) comms system, as at home.

Windows7 has additional protections for non-secure "public" hot-spots, and it's worth reading up about them and enabling them for places where it's likely someone might attempt something. But in general, taking into account the fact you shouldn't pass sensitive data (banking, etc) over public networks, the risks are minimal for most users on modern systems.

When it comes to home Wi-Fi, however, anyone not running a decent encryption and passwording solution is asking for trouble, and not just because of "piggy-backing" (people using your broadband for free) - you are legally responsible for your network and if people are passing dodgy information over your unsecured line you could technically be held liable, in the UK and much of Europe at any rate.


< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 7/29/2011 2:54:34 PM >

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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 3:46:02 PM   
DomImus


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Good advice for the greenhorns. This is what happens when you plug shit in and use all the default settings. It never ceases to amaze me at how many unsecured home networks I see when I scan. It's getting a little better so the word is getting out.

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RE: We are not alone..... - 7/29/2011 4:51:18 PM   
DesFIP


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Nobody lives close enough to me to use my wifi. Can't even access it from the detached garage. Helps to live in the back of beyond.

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RE: We are not alone..... - 8/1/2011 1:44:56 AM   
Termyn8or


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Actualy it doesn't really matter. Someone picks up your wifi and uses it, other than the bandwidth issue they generally are not getting to your files any sooner than anyone else on the net. Really.

Now if they send an email threatening the President, you will have a knock at the door, but once they see that none of your PCs were used to send it, they will leave you alone. They might even advise you to secure your system, but not just yet. Not until they catch the guy.

Every modem, router, nic and PC has a unique ID. If I took my laptop to Starbucks and threatened the President, Starbucks wouldn't be in trouble, they would be looking for my laptop. The possesion of it is the problem, not the means of connecting.

Know what ? I can't even log on to the net. My PCs are just automatically on, that's it. When my router works (I blow them out for some reason) anything plugged into it is automatically connected. There is no login at all.

If I went wireless I would probably secure it, maybe. But really I just don't care that much, plus I got some really long CAT 5 cables. If I need a PC driving down the street, shame on me.

T^T

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RE: We are not alone..... - 8/1/2011 2:56:35 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Actualy it doesn't really matter. Someone picks up your wifi and uses it, other than the bandwidth issue they generally are not getting to your files any sooner than anyone else on the net. Really.

Now if they send an email threatening the President, you will have a knock at the door, but once they see that none of your PCs were used to send it, they will leave you alone. They might even advise you to secure your system, but not just yet. Not until they catch the guy.

Every modem, router, nic and PC has a unique ID. If I took my laptop to Starbucks and threatened the President, Starbucks wouldn't be in trouble, they would be looking for my laptop. The possesion of it is the problem, not the means of connecting.


Not true in the UK, and I'm fairly sure not true in the US either. The relevant Acts have passages which relate to "control of use", meaning that the "owner" of the network (most usually, but not always, the bill payer) has an obligation to ensure their network is "not utilised for the purpose of unauthorised transmissions" (the wording under the UK's Computer Misuse Act, though likely to be worded differently in the US), and it also references the use of your network for the purposes of transmission of illegal material.

This comes into play when dealing with the kind of evil fucktards who use hijacked computers and networks to distribute illegal materials (kiddie porn, stolen credit card lists, etc) – they will work with “clusters” of hijacked computers (until recently PCs, but there are now Trojans which leverage Macs too) to store the data on, but will (in order to cover their trail and “protect” the compromised clusters) tend to distribute that data via unsecured networks. So they operate a virtual drive that is powered by a cluster of computers scattered hither and thither, but to protect those clusters from being discovered they will move the data via one node only, on a compromised (usually unsecured) network.

The net upshot of this is that, if you're dumb enough to run an open network yourself, you're potentially going to have to prove that you had no knowledge of its use by others, defence of which pretty much guarantees you're going to have to admit running an open network. So it’s kind of catch22 – you're fucked if you do, and fucked if you don’t.

In a case here a couple of years back a guy spent a long time fighting an accusation of being a kiddie-porn distributor, and of further accepting the proceeds from sale of same (because they filtered back CC payments via his unsecured network) – it took bloody months to establish that he had nothing to do with it, and during that time he was on bail, under investigation (not a nice thing to have happen, I would imagine) and both his bank accounts and computer equipment were seized/frozen, so he was effectively fucked. Yes they did eventually establish he was innocent, but that was after something like nine months of having no income, no computer equipment nor net access (since they banned him from “communicating” via that medium, fearing he might warn others) and living under the threat of a substantial prison term. Not nice. So, in short, run an open network and you're asking for trouble.

Oh, and your “unique ID”? Infinitely spoof-able. Not easy to, but if someone wants to then they can – it’s one of the reasons why modern encryptions and network security keys have moved away from “white list” Mac address methods and towards long chain encryption keys. Even those are breakable with time and brute-force attacks – put simply, modern graphics cards are so powerful (in number of instructions per second terms) that those keys that would once have taken many thousands of years to crack through brute force are now breakable in a matter of days or, in the case of the latest cards, mere hours.

Finally, the reason Starbucks aren’t liable has nothing to do with the logging of unique IDs, as they (and others) are fully aware of the above – what protects them from nutters coming in and leveraging their Wi-Fi is the fact that a) their T&Cs state clearly that they're not liable for what you send over the networks and b) their network security disconnects anyone attempting to use their network for repeated similar-key (brute force) attempts to spoof the IDs of any of their hubs. Oh and c) any network security bod worth more than a couple of beans at the government or corporate end will simply funnel all traffic from unsecured networks into a separate system, then only allow those comms containing the corporate white-list ID through.

So, in short; secure your networks or you may end up in trouble. The chances aren’t high I grant you, but the situations I've outlined do happen, and are increasing in frequency, to the point where a recent discussion paper by one of the main security system providers admitted it was only a matter of time before an “innocent” got jailed as a result of their open network being compromised.

Oh, and those of you “borrowing” other people’s open Wi-Fi networks are committing a crime, in either the US or UK. And one for which a couple of dozen people have now (in the UK) been prosecuted, albeit with fines only for now.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: We are not alone..... - 8/1/2011 6:14:25 AM   
DesFIP


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http://news.yahoo.com/men-build-small-flying-spy-drone-cracks-wi-172803720.html

Speaking of stealing data.


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RE: We are not alone..... - 8/1/2011 6:21:15 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

http://news.yahoo.com/men-build-small-flying-spy-drone-cracks-wi-172803720.html

Speaking of stealing data.


Wow, cool :) That's really ingenious, if I read what it's doing correctly.

You don't even need to go to those lengths - Google got themselves into all sorts of trouble (and have not yet fully extricated themselves in some places) simply by driving their street view cars & vans around, logging open networks and (in some cases) sniffing data.

Then of course there's the now commonplace penetration of the Chip & PIN system; it took criminals about 6 months to break a system that the credit card companies thought would remain inviolate for at least a decade.

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