gungadin09
Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Masterdx2001
The Natural Submissive
#1
I feel that courtesy is a strong indication of a good submissive as well as a good dominant.
Courtesy towards whom? (yes, i said "whom". i'm pretentious like that.)
#2
As a submissive, he or she asks his or her dominant for an immense amount of time, attention, and thought. Dominating someone requires a great deal of work and effort. While the submissive obviously has needs, he or she should devote himself or herself to pleasing his or her dominant as best they can.
So far, so good.
#3
The submissive being honest and sincere about what types of play interests him or her.
Yes.
#4
If the submissive is a masochist, with little or no interest in performing personal service for a dominant, he or she may tend to annoy or frustrate a dominant that has high expectations on being served. Also, there are those subs that are only interested in performing or providing a sexual service. While others tend to provide such services on a limited basis, such as domestic or office help, and then there totally devoted submissive’s who serve their dominant any way they can.
Not sure what your point is. What you have said so far is not controversial.
#5
One of the qualities of good submissive is to show honesty with respect to his or her needs and desires, to the extent that he or she currently knows and understands them, will serve the sub well here.
Of course.
#6
While a dominant is not essentially under any obligation to request that the submissive do things that suit him or her. The sub should offer numerous ways to his or his dominant as reasonably possible. After all, the more way a submissive can make a dominant's life pleasant, the more useful he or she is as a sub. A good submissive should diplomatically be as clear as he or she can about his or her limits. I strongly believe that a frustrated and resentful submissive is no fun for any dominant.
i still think that it's about both people's needs being met. One person needs to have control. The other person needs to give it up. Each of them is filling the other's needs.
#7
Another characteristic that describes a good and true submissive is to not be pushy.
i agree.
#8
A good sub won't approach a dominant and, uninvited; descend to his or her knees at his or her feet. I can tell you from my lifestyle experience that it is a truly a turn-off with many dominants, myself included.
i can tell you from my experience, that that is not a turnoff for every Dom.
'
#9
This can be viewed, in its own fashion, as a non-consensual act, given the fact consent and negotiations are the one of the cornerstones of SM and DS. I appreciate and can tolerate a certain amount of subtle, low-key flirting. I am definitely impressed by formal introductions from potential submissive’s, whether by email, in person, or introduced through a known third party.
i agree.
#10
A good and true submissive won't approach another sub's dominant and come onto him or her by kneeling or acting submissive in a conspicuous manner without that dominant's prior and express approval. Doing so can create immense hostilities between the two submissive, which can spiral out of control.
Duh.
#11
A good and true submissive should avoid being a smart-ass masochist. SAMs will misbehave on purpose to provoke their dominants into punishing them.
i think that's annoying, too.
#12
This can be fun and erotically hot within the context of a pre-negotiated scene. I love for my sub to be what I call "sassy defiance." I absolutely love it when a submissive can make me rise to the challenge of making her hot ass heel. Being a SAM is frowned upon when it is engaged in a non-consensual fashion, or when the couple is outside the SM scene.
#13
A sub who acts in such a manner is essentially weak to ask for what they really desire in an honest manner.
i don't like bratty subs either.
#14
In my lifestyle experience, I have some smart-assed masochists provoke real anger in some dominants. This essentially denotes a deliberate emotional or physical hurting of the dominant to receive the desired response. Such behavior, in my opinion, would not be indicative of a good submissive because it is manipulative, unethical, and it stinks of being non-consensual. Provoking a dominant is not a good idea.
#15
As I mentioned with respect to good dominants, domination is likened to surgery, it is a highly refined skill in a highly that takes a long time to learn and master. Good Doms exercise their skill in a highly controlled, thoughtful manner. A good submissive would not deliberately disturb a dominant's emotional balance, as it would be quite dangerous. Even though many dominants exhibit immense amount self-control, we are still human; when we are injured, we hurt. Many subs will say that a raging, out-of-control dominant is definitely terrifying. A dominant friend of mine was purposely provoked by his sub to the point of losing control. He was quite shaken and sorrowful after SM scene was over. It took over two years before he could regain his confidence. I am not going to go into any detail here other than the fact he did erupt. A submissive should not engage seriously in being a smart-assed masochist, unless he or she knows the dominant can deal with that. As I mentioned earlier, being a SAM can be quite hot and erotic under the right circumstances. Under the wrong circumstances, it can be quite disastrous. As I have I said a good and true submissive also has to exercise self-control like a good dominant.
#16
I strongly feel that a good submissive would not engage in the behavior of resistance, at least, until he or she got to know their dominant quite well. Resistance on a submissive's part, especially, if the dominant does not know him or her well can send mixed messages, which can be quite difficult to interpret. When I am in a dominant role in a SM scene with a novice submissive, I will tell my partner that any physical resistance on her part will essentially be successful. I will regard such behavior as a yellow light, or even an immediate termination of the scene. There are some subs that enjoy being forced, and this type of behavior being exhibited can essentially ruin a session, as well as, cost me an occasional play partner. To overcome physical resistance, even if it can be done quite easily, in the mistaken assumption that it is play resistance can definitely lead to disastrous results. I submit that physical resistance must be carefully pre-negotiated. I strongly suggest that any dominant, which is in doubt, back off immediately. Like being a smart-assed masochist, resistance can be erotically hot if engaged in under the right circumstances.
#17
Topping from below is another behavior that I feel that good subs should refrain. This denotes a submissive trying to control the scene in progress by making excessive requests, suggestions, and complaints. Of course, this is quite different from the sub that makes suggestions and requests to the dominant, yet leaving it for him or her to decide. It is also different from asking for particular activities, or ruling out particular activities during pre-scene negotiations. Topping from the bottom is typically frowned upon. A submissive should let the dominants make as many decisions as reasonably possible, as the submissive is there to please the dominant.
#18
I talked about dominant masochists and submissive sadists on DS and SM archetypes. A submissive sadist enjoys serving their partner by providing them exactly the kind of pain they desire, or as a dominant masochist which connotes those who enjoy receiving exactly, and only the kind of pain they desire. I will say that these personas work well as long as both partners agree in advance that this is the type of scene they want to do. There is an ethical use of the topping from the bottom behavior, which is when an experienced sub is respectfully offering suggestions to a novice dominant. I know that beginner dominants often feel quite insecure, being trained by their more experienced submissive. In my years as a dominant, I have seen few cases where the novice dominant went on to become excellent and outstanding. Also I have seen a few cases where the submissive was abusive to the novice Dom and he or she essentially never realizes his or her potential. I knew one or two to actually leave the SM or DS community entirely. As in the other behaviors I mentioned in the above paragraphs, topping from the bottom can also be erotic and hot under the proper circumstances. Many of you may or may not agree with what I am about say here. I strongly believe that a dominant that can relinquish control and reclaim it at the appropriate time essentially controls control, the essence of power, if you please. A good and true submissive will topping from the bottom in a constructive, circumspect, and respectful manner with regards to a novice dominant.
#19
My vision of the ideal submissive is one who will be able to discern between strength and stubbornness, with a preference for the former. I love that woman who possesses the fiery, feisty nature that dwells deep within her bosom, sassy defiance, if you will. But I also desire a submissive that has strong sense of self-worth, a woman who is happy with herself and can honestly communicate what it is that she desires. My ideal sub will cherish the romance and be totally enthralled by a perilous, dramatic fantasy. She will be unified and complete, special and significant, and she will possess the immense courage to listen to the spirit beyond what she is.
OP- you raise a number of points, many of which would have made good thread topics on their own. Put together, they are a clusterfuck. Are you really asking for comments on 19 different theses at once? Your OP is rambling and disorganised. It's too bad because, like i said, you raise a number of interesting points. In my opinion, you would have done better to develop any ONE of these ideas, than to present them all at once together in the form of a manifesto. Having said that, if you did that, i would probably comment on any one of these threads, if they were started. But this is far too many ideas to be discussed at once.
pam
< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 7/31/2011 12:36:32 AM >
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RE: The Natural submissive - 
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