RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ?

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FirstQuaker -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 1:29:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I think you are overemphasizing the influence of the formal system -- aka the Vatican and rules -- and under emphasizing the informal system of how Catholics practice their religion. Take American Catholics, they use birth control, have premarital sex, and openly tolerate gays -- they give to charity and do not politic for extreme political changes in the country. Additionally, priests do not enforce Catholic edicts in a gestapo manner and have full autonomy to write and give their own homilies. Also, there is an upside to central authority, namely nutcases get shut down. No part of the Catholic Church can get away with sponsoring or inciting terrorism. So, what you seem to be missing is the importance of the informal system. The Pope really has about as much influence with Catholics as the President of the US has with the general populace --- little. Its the priests, nuns, lay workers, parishioners, teachers, doctors, schools, and universities that touch and influence the lives of Catholics -- not the men wearing pointy hats in the Vatican. The Catholic Church is nothing to me but a international feudal order of genocidal European mercenaries and child rapists in frocks, who run a fake religion as one of their criminal swindles. http://www.aaanativearts.com/article1641.html "Beside the conquistador stands a priest" - South American saying. And this Catholic church has acted locally, executing children for wetting their bed in their Crown concentration camps for children, forced sterilizations, use of children as laboratory animals, deliberately infecting children with deadly diseases and then denying them medical care, forced abortions, all just in British Columbia can be added to the regular pedophilia and other child abuse they practice world wide - "Pope Joseph Ratzinger and Queen Elizabeth Windsor have both been issued a Public Summons by the ITCCS to appear before it in September and answer charges of their complicity in crimes against humanity, genocide and child trafficking, as well as Elizabeth Windsor’s culpability in Canadian depleted uranium (du) and radiation genocide." - http://exopolitics.blogs.com/breaking_news/2011/06/download-revkevinannetitccsorg.html "Aboriginal elders from Canada will offer prayers for their friends and relatives who died or were killed in Catholic Indian residential schools, at the institution in Rome responsible for their death. And they will name Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger, as the one ultimately responsible." - http://www.russellmeansfreedom.com/tag/catholic-church/ This demon church and the vampires running it do not even answer to, or follow the words of the desert god they claim to follow, let alone anyone or anything else, and as the thing is an absolute monarchy ruled from Rome, it is little more then a worldwide government of criminals who specialize is the abuse and suffering of the innocent and of downtrodden minorities for their own depraved amusement and for their collective benefit, while happily swindling anyone who is foolish enough to believe their false creed. Anyone in this century and on this continent who follows this evil creed, for all here know it's dark and bloodstained history, both in the Americas and across the rest of the world, is either a willing tool or a abject fool

Anaxagoras -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 2:31:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl From what doctrinal belief do you think they disassociate themselves from? Yes, it isn't right to say the Catholic Church is the Vatican or vice versa. It is too simplistic to say the people are good but the Church isn't etc. The church informs their beliefs and the powers that be are directly involved in the infrastructure that allows or facilitates many Catholics in assisting societies around the world generally.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 2:47:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker I think you are overemphasizing the influence of the formal system -- aka the Vatican and rules -- and under emphasizing the informal system of how Catholics practice their religion. Take American Catholics, they use birth control, have premarital sex, and openly tolerate gays -- they give to charity and do not politic for extreme political changes in the country. Additionally, priests do not enforce Catholic edicts in a gestapo manner and have full autonomy to write and give their own homilies. The Catholic Church is nothing to me but a international feudal order of genocidal European mercenaries and child rapists in frocks, who run a fake religion as one of their criminal swindles. http://www.aaanativearts.com/article1641.html "Beside the conquistador stands a priest" - South American saying. And this Catholic church has acted locally, executing children for wetting their bed in their Crown concentration camps for children, forced sterilizations, use of children as laboratory animals, deliberately infecting children with deadly diseases and then denying them medical care, forced abortions, all just in British Columbia can be added to the regular pedophilia and other child abuse they practice world wide - "Pope Joseph Ratzinger and Queen Elizabeth Windsor have both been issued a Public Summons by the ITCCS to appear before it in September and answer charges of their complicity in crimes against humanity, genocide and child trafficking, as well as Elizabeth Windsor’s culpability in Canadian depleted uranium (du) and radiation genocide." - http://exopolitics.blogs.com/breaking_news/2011/06/download-revkevinannetitccsorg.html "Aboriginal elders from Canada will offer prayers for their friends and relatives who died or were killed in Catholic Indian residential schools, at the institution in Rome responsible for their death. And they will name Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger, as the one ultimately responsible." - http://www.russellmeansfreedom.com/tag/catholic-church/ This demon church and the vampires running it do not even answer to, or follow the words of the desert god they claim to follow, let alone anyone or anything else, and as the thing is an absolute monarchy ruled from Rome, it is little more then a worldwide government of criminals who specialize is the abuse and suffering of the innocent and of downtrodden minorities for their own depraved amusement and for their collective benefit, while happily swindling anyone who is foolish enough to believe their false creed. Anyone in this century and on this continent who follows this evil creed, for all here know it's dark and bloodstained history, both in the Americas and across the rest of the world, is either a willing tool or a abject fool I dont have any time for the Catholic Church but you post some dubious bullshit as links. I wont even touch how you make the Queen liable for the use of depleted Uranium. Elizabeth Windsor to appear before the ITCCS, please excuse me while I piss myself laughing at your absurdities.

FirstQuaker -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 2:58:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I dont have any time for the Catholic Church but you post some dubious bullshit as links. I wont even touch how you make the Queen liable for the use of depleted Uranium. Elizabeth Windsor to appear before the ITCCS, please excuse me while I piss myself laughing at your absurdities. Pleading sovereign immunity are we?

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 3:11:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker Pleading sovereign immunity are we? Your posts often show a lack of knowledge of British History and/or British law. Let me know how the court case gets on, I just hope Liz will be free to open Parliament.

FirstQuaker -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 3:44:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker Pleading sovereign immunity are we? Your posts often show a lack of knowledge of British History and/or British law. Let me know how the court case gets on, I just hope Liz will be free to open Parliament. I know British history pretty well. But Lizzie was also Queen of the Dominion of Canada at the time some of the events occurred. Are you willing to go to war with the planet, if the World Court decides a hereditary head of state is not immune? The UK has been instrumental in charging other heads of state with crimes against humanity, from the Nuremberg trials onwards, and even now is supporting bringing up Kdaffy on charges. Then there is Saddam Hussein and Milosevic - http://chinesejil.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/251.full Lizzie should not have signed genocide treaties and international court covenants and such and then expected there be a special exception for hereditary heads of state. Of course showing the Queen as more then a respondeat superior will be nearly impossible.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 3:58:21 PM)
Id love to see genocide treaties she is said to have signed. Id also love to see where she authorised events in Canada relating to bed wetting.

FirstQuaker -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:18:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Id love to see genocide treaties she is said to have signed. Id also love to see where she authorised events in Canada relating to bed wetting. You might look up what a respondeat superior is. The UK acceded to Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in 1970, and Canada ratified in in 1949 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_Genocide_Convention Other Commonwealth countries she also rules signed the convention at various times also during her reign. However as we are discussing the failings of the Catholic church, I am certain you could start a threat on the Canadian Holocaust if you think we should discuss the various actors and their roles in the Crown's genocide in Canada outside the scope of the Catholic Church's prominent and willing role in the events. The Anglican Church representing the state Church of England was certainly in there swinging, too.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:24:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk By the way , having some fucking brit talk to me about freedoms and rights is hilarious. First, your owned by the fucking queen. Second you, still today, have a standing army controlling and terrorizing the island of Ireland. When you start taking responsibility for your fucking ills...come talk to me. Not wishing to sound arsey, but if you're going to give RF a hard time for (supposedly) not knowing the facts about Rwanda, coming out with nonsense like that won't help your case any. No offense moon but doesnt the Monarchy own the very land you are standing on? Do you not have a standing army in Ireland? No, the monarchy doesn't. Technically the monarchy doesn't own any land besides the properties that are deeded to its individual members. That's something that went out with Cromwell, and wasn't restored during the restoration. The Russians had serfs long after we'd abandoned that system over here. And while I'm being pedantic and nit picky, there hasn't been a British military presence in Ireland in living memory either. Northern Ireland is a separate country, and part of the UK. That's what the troubles were over in the first place: the Republican movement wanting to rejoin Ireland (who didn't want them back) and the Loyalists taking offence at this notion as it would probably stop them from marching through the Catholic areas of Belfast in orange sashes, shouting. uh huh, Crown Estate that is looked after by the Parliament who are beholden for Power by the Monarchy. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it is.... So enlighten me on how the 6 counties came to be separate during the 1916 Revolution? Monarchy had nothing to do with that right?

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:31:17 PM)
You dragged the Queen into the issue, so dont start trying to blame me for your own failings. Your timeline seems a little warped as well. You mention 1949 when the Queen wasnt even on the throne, so I doubt she signed that. You also seem to have little clue of the Queens official role in Canadian affairs.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:31:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If he hasn't been excommunicated, then he's still Catholic: like a lot of churches, it has fuck all to do with what you believe. It's a power structure first, and a religion second, dig? Moon, you are what you say you are. He says he ain't one. Then says he is. Is he arguing with everyone else or just himself? dig?

tazzygirl -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:33:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl From what doctrinal belief do you think they disassociate themselves from? Yes, it isn't right to say the Catholic Church is the Vatican or vice versa. It is too simplistic to say the people are good but the Church isn't etc. The church informs their beliefs and the powers that be are directly involved in the infrastructure that allows or facilitates many Catholics in assisting societies around the world generally. We cannot,nor should we ever, fail to remember the bad that has been done in the name of the church. The Church at the time were a police state among themselves. Now days, priests can, and are, arrested for the crimes they commit... something unheard of in the not so distant past. But, its like our government. The US Government is a thing of beauty... we just have allowed many assholes to tarnish it with their greed and hatred. The same thing happened in the Church. When someone can say, with absolute conviction, that the Church has perpetuated an "evil" with the full knowledge, consent and encouragement of its parishioners, then the whole of the church can be blamed.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:39:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk uh huh, Crown Estate that is looked after by the Parliament who are beholden for Power by the Monarchy. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it is.... So enlighten me on how the 6 counties came to be separate during the 1916 Revolution? Monarchy had nothing to do with that right? Indeed, the Monarchy had nothing to do with it. You knowledge of English/Irish history, as well as that of UK law, is sadly lacking. I am surprised so many of you know how to use Google but dont know how to read. The facts regard the monarchy are readily available. I have gone through the history of the monarchy more times than I care to remember on here.

FirstQuaker -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:43:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 You dragged the Queen into the issue, so dont start trying to blame me for your own failings. Your timeline seems a little warped as well. You mention 1949 when the Queen wasnt even on the throne, so I doubt she signed that. You also seem to have little clue of the Queens official role in Canadian affairs. Of course being born in Canda, and partially educated there I don't have nearly the understanding a Brit like you does. And no, I cited an article on the Queen and the Pope as heads of state both being called to account for their nations (assuming the Vatican is a nation) role in examples of the Catholic Church's handiwork in Canada. As far as I know the Queen is bound by her predecessor's treaties. Perhaps there is some new law or rule in the UK differing from this.

RapierFugue -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:48:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker Of course being born in Canda, and partially educated there I believe you :)

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 4:51:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker Of course being born in Canda, and partially educated there I don't have nearly the understanding a Brit like you does. And no, I cited an article on the Queen and the Pope as heads of state both being called to account for their nations (assuming the Vatican is a nation) role in examples of the Catholic Church's handiwork in Canada. As far as I know the Queen is bound by her predecessor's treaties. Perhaps there is some new law or rule in the UK differing from this. Ah, that old chesnut. Youre a Canadian so know more than me, yet you still love to pontificate on the UK constitution and law. Got to love the double standards. So you tell me brains, who makes the law in Canada ? My understanding is that that would be the Canadian Parliament, just as UK law is made by the UK Parliament. I would guess the Queen is just a constitutional figurehead for ceremonial purposes in Canada, and has no say in law making, just as she is in the UK. Andyes, The vatican is a Nation State, as any schoolboy or girl here could tell you.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 5:08:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk uh huh, Crown Estate that is looked after by the Parliament who are beholden for Power by the Monarchy. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it is.... So enlighten me on how the 6 counties came to be separate during the 1916 Revolution? Monarchy had nothing to do with that right? I don't know.....but they could be wrong. First paragraph of the link pretty much says Irish Republican Army was fighting the British Army. No? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_war_of_Independence Indeed, the Monarchy had nothing to do with it. You knowledge of English/Irish history, as well as that of UK law, is sadly lacking. I am surprised so many of you know how to use Google but dont know how to read. The facts regard the monarchy are readily available. I have gone through the history of the monarchy more times than I care to remember on here.

FirstQuaker -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 5:12:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker Of course being born in Canda, and partially educated there I believe you :) I wasn't born knowing everything, like the lucky British. But the public school system in Canada, even in rural B.C. actually does teach how the Canadian government both national and in the province, is supposed to work. (How it really works is another story, a shame many Canadians worry more about what happens south of the border then on their side of it) However the rosy glow of the British way of doing things is pretty well fading in Canada, especially to the west of Southern Ontario. I think the last poll had 2/3rds of Canada wanting to dump the moarchy if it became a public question. About half the people in Western Canada are First Nations or Metis, and the Catholic church is a vile name with them for obvious reasons. And with a 4 percent anual growth rate, we are the fastest growing segment of the Canadian people.

tweakabelle -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 5:29:26 PM)
When I was about 10, I wrote a letter to the Pope stating: "I resign". That was about 20 years ago. I'm still waiting for an acknowledgement......

Anaxagoras -> RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? (8/3/2011 5:29:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl From what doctrinal belief do you think they disassociate themselves from? Yes, it isn't right to say the Catholic Church is the Vatican or vice versa. It is too simplistic to say the people are good but the Church isn't etc. The church informs their beliefs and the powers that be are directly involved in the infrastructure that allows or facilitates many Catholics in assisting societies around the world generally. We cannot,nor should we ever, fail to remember the bad that has been done in the name of the church. The Church at the time were a police state among themselves. Now days, priests can, and are, arrested for the crimes they commit... something unheard of in the not so distant past. Absolutely, I criticised those actions in this thread. Their behaviour with regard to covering up sexual abuse was appalling. It truly was as if they were a law unto themselves. quote: But, its like our government. The US Government is a thing of beauty... we just have allowed many assholes to tarnish it with their greed and hatred. The same thing happened in the Church. When someone can say, with absolute conviction, that the Church has perpetuated an "evil" with the full knowledge, consent and encouragement of its parishioners, then the whole of the church can be blamed. Indeed, although I think the church can be blamed even without full knowledge of parishoners but we must still bear in mind that it in effect constitutes both parties, and to laud one side while condemning the other over the last 2,000 or so years is unfair, and also improbable as if they were/are somehow divorced from each other. I'm concerned with those who portray the church as abjectly evil and nothing else. A lot of bad and good has been done in the name of virtually every organised religion. I think we can condemn its actions over child abuse and the failure to accept condoms in Africa while still acknowledging a good deal of good has been done as well.

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