RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


Moonhead -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 12:23:17 PM)

Maybe he's talking about foreskins because he thinks TheHeretic is a liberal?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 12:38:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Maybe he's talking about foreskins because he thinks TheHeretic is a liberal?

Maybe he's against that proposed ordnance in San Francisco.




rulemylife -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 12:44:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

I love the disconnect of the liberal/leftwing/misfits.  Here is a sentence from the aritcle:

"through closing tax loopholes for oil companies and removing various tax deductions that benefit the wealthy."

Doesn't anyone notice or give a shit that NOBODY ever sets forth in detail what the tax loopholes are for the oil companies?   



Does anyone give a shit that you are too stupid to look it up for yourself?


Eliminating Tax Subsidies for Oil Companies


President Obama’s 2011 budget proposes to eliminate nine different tax expenditures that primarily benefit oil and gas companies. Cutting these special tax deductions, preferences, and credits would save the government about $45 billion over the next 10 years.

CAP has previously argued for eliminating tax expenditures for multibillion-dollar oil companies such as BP, ExxonMobil, and Chevron that would be profitable even without government subsidies. Here are the tax expenditures that the Obama administration has targeted for elimination.

1. Intangible drilling costs. Firms engaged in the exploration and development of oil or gas properties may expense (deduct in the year paid or incurred) certain types of drilling expenditures from their taxes. These costs include wages, fuel, repairs, hauling, and supplies related to and necessary for drilling and preparing wells for the production of oil and gas. Other companies incurring similar types of costs must recover this cost over the life of the investment. The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy will produce budget savings of about $7.839 billion over 10 years.

2. Deduction for tertiary injectants. Tertiary, or enhanced oil recovery, methods increase the amount of oil that a company can extract from a well by an additional 5 percent to 15 percent according to some research. This tax expenditure subsidizes the costs of tertiary injectants—the fluids, gases, and other chemicals that are pumped into oil and gas reservoirs as part of this process. The subsidy essentially gives companies government money for acting in ways that will enhance their profits. It allows companies to expense the costs of tertiary injectants, even though such costs should be recovered over time. Companies can alternatively choose to deduct these costs as an intangible drilling cost.The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy will produce budget savings of about $67 million over 10 years.

3. Percentage depletion allowance. Percentage depletion allows an independent oil company to deduct from its taxes about 15 percent from the revenue generated from a well, even if that amount exceeds the well’s total value. This means that oil companies take a deduction as long as a well is producing oil, without regard to how much, or whether, the well is still declining in value. Companies in other industries are only allowed to deduct an amount that represents the decline in their investment’s value that year. The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy to produce budget savings of about $10 billion over 10 years.

4. Passive investments. The government generally only allows investors to deduct a limited amount of losses from “passive activities” such as renting land in order to prevent tax shelters. Yet oil and gas properties are exempt from this rule. This gives oil and gas companies a competitive edge over other types of energy companies. The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy will produce budget savings of about $180 million over 10 years.

5. Domestic manufacturing tax deduction. Companies that manufacture, produce, or extract oil and gas or any primary derivative receive a manufacturing subsidy provided that the product was made in the United States. But since removing this subsidy does not affect the production of oil, the subsidy does not significantly affect business decisions and eliminating the subsidy would not affect consumer prices. The subsidy is essentially a throwaway for oil companies. The tax expenditure is provided through a deduction for 9 percent of income, subject to a limit of 50 percent of the wages paid that are allocable to domestic production during the taxable year. The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy will produce budget savings of about $17.3 billion over 10 years.

6. Geological and geophysical expenditures. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 created this tax subsidy, which allows companies to deduct the costs associated with searching for oil, recovering the costs over a two-year period. The administration expects that scaling back the amortization period to seven years would produce budget savings of about $1.1 billion over 10 years.

7. Foreign tax credit. This credit is intended to prevent the double taxation of income that is taxed abroad but also subject to tax in the United States. Yet companies, particularly oil companies, have managed to exploit this subsidy even when they don’t pay income taxes abroad. In total, adjusting the rule would prevent companies from avoiding about $8.5 billion in taxes over a 10-year period.

8. Enhanced oil recovery credit. Companies receive a 15 percent income tax credit for the costs of recovering domestic oil when they use “enhanced oil recovery” methods to extract oil that is too viscous to be extracted by conventional primary and secondary water-flooding techniques. The EOR credit is nonrefundable and is allowed if the average wellhead price of crude oil (using West Texas Intermediate as the reference) in the year before the credit is claimed is below the statutorily established threshold price of $28 (as adjusted for inflation since 1990) in the year the credit is claimed. Oil prices in fiscal year 2006 were too high for companies to receive this subsidy, but the subsidy remains in existence. Its elimination is not expected to produce budget savings.

9. Marginal well production. This provision provides a subsidy for oil and gas produced from certain types of oil and gas wells. These wells include those that produce heavy oil and those with an average production within a statutorily specified range. Oil prices were too high for companies to receive this subsidy in fiscal year 2006, but the subsidy remains in existence. Its elimination is not expected to produce budget savings.

The total government savings from eliminating these subsidies is projected to be $45 billion over 10 years.




Fellow -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 12:45:36 PM)

Here is one theory of Obama's presidency: [ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/matt-stoller-what-presidency.html ]
So why, if his Presidency has been such an unmitigated disaster, is he continuing to pursue this reckless course. My theory is that the key to the Obama administration’s political strategy is not compromise or incrementalism. It is, quite simply, fooling liberals. When you look at Obama’s governing role, he is clearly a servant of American oligarchs. But obviously he can’t explicitly tell liberals this (unlike Republicans, who are explicit in saying they favor “job creators”), because liberals like to think of themselves as favoring economic justice. So how do you acquire support from liberals, as he did in the primaries in 2008 and will need to do again in 2012, while pursuing oligarch-friendly policies? You do it by ensuring that liberals only focus on the ceremonial non-governmental aspects of the Presidency. You do it by making sure that they focus only on the televised aspects of the Presidency.
[My comment: The true Obamanites do not really focus on anything having some dose of substance or facts involved.]





lockedaway -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 1:01:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Is there anything in particular you want to cut or have you just been watching a lot of Texas Chainsaw?


Don't be rude.  I have asked nottertail about a hundred times to specifically identify the loopholes he thought should be closed and the tax deductions that only favor the rich.  Nottertail hasn't provided an answer and NEITHER HAVE YOU. 

What should be cut?  How about a 10% dollar for dollar cut TODAY for all programs with absolutely nothing spared and pink slips going out to the new 16,000 IRS agents?  Oh...let's also return the desks, computers, chairs, paper, copiers, tear up the leases as well.  What do you think?  How about ending subsidies for not only ridiculous studies but even some credible ones as well.  (shared sacrifice and all)  What about capping all federal salaries? 

OK...if a ten percent across the board cut doesn't blow your skirt up, how about a budget freeze for the next decade?  OOOOOOOOOOOO that would really be scary, wouldn't it?  You know what would happen?  The CBO would score that as a plan that reduced the deficit by 80%.  That, of course, is bullshit.  We would not have saved ANYTHING we just wouldn't have spent the increase. 

You see, IMP, there are a lot of ways you can cut.  This last tango was a meaningless exercise in drama........nothing more.




Moonhead -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 1:03:54 PM)

How about a uniform VAT on manufactured goods, rather than letting States pick their own sales tax levels, with a reduction for companies that still manufacture their shit domestically?




lockedaway -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 1:04:45 PM)

Wow...what a fucking screw up you are.  Read your list.  Better still, get an accountant to read it for you.

How many of the items in your list are tantamount to regular business expenses of....say....an accountant deducting paper, pens, forms, salaries, rent, computer programs etc.?  Certainly 1 and 2 of your list, right?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 1:09:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Wow...what a fucking screw up you are.  Read your list.  Better still, get an accountant to read it for you.

How many of the items in your list are tantamount to regular business expenses of....say....an accountant deducting paper, pens, forms, salaries, rent, computer programs etc.?  Certainly 1 and 2 of your list, right?


3 thru 7 are unique to the oil industry. 8 and 9 are as well but aren't presently affecting the budget due to the price of crude being high.




mnottertail -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 1:16:32 PM)

You are a liar of the first order.  I gave you some of those proofs, and the thread was not removed, and there is is prima facie evidence of your lie. Furthermore, it is not my fucking job to write out war and peace for you everytime you ask a question just so you can rant against the answer.  You have yet to provide me with any sort of credible proof of anything.




mnottertail -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 1:24:10 PM)

capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry.

Some of the tax breaks date back nearly a century, when they were intended to encourage exploration in an era of rudimentary technology, when costly investments frequently produced only dry holes. Because of one lingering provision from the Tariff Act of 1913, many small and midsize oil companies based in the United States can claim deductions for the lost value of tapped oil fields far beyond the amount the companies actually paid for the oil rights.
Other tax breaks were born of international politics. In an attempt to deter Soviet influence in the Middle East in the 1950s, the State Department backed a Saudi Arabian accounting maneuver that reclassified the royalties charged by foreign governments to American oil drillers. Saudi Arabia and others began to treat some of the royalties as taxes, which entitled the companies to subtract those payments from their American tax bills. Despite repeated attempts to forbid this accounting practice, companies continue to deduct the payments. The Treasury Department estimates that it will cost $8.2 billion over the next decade.

Over the last 10 years, oil companies have also been aggressive in using foreign tax havens. Many rigs, like Deepwater Horizon, are registered in Panama or in the Marshall Islands, where they are subject to lower taxes and less stringent safety and staff regulations. American producers have also aggressively exploited the tax code by opening small offices in low-tax countries.

and there are a few more for you to cant.........




rulemylife -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 1:25:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Wow...what a fucking screw up you are.  Read your list.  Better still, get an accountant to read it for you.

How many of the items in your list are tantamount to regular business expenses of....say....an accountant deducting paper, pens, forms, salaries, rent, computer programs etc.?  Certainly 1 and 2 of your list, right?



I don't even understand the point here.

Other than you trying to weasel out of something that you have been proven wrong about.





















rulemylife -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 1:31:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Here is one theory of Obama's presidency: [ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/matt-stoller-what-presidency.html ]
So why, if his Presidency has been such an unmitigated disaster, is he continuing to pursue this reckless course. My theory is that the key to the Obama administration’s political strategy is not compromise or incrementalism. It is, quite simply, fooling liberals. When you look at Obama’s governing role, he is clearly a servant of American oligarchs. But obviously he can’t explicitly tell liberals this (unlike Republicans, who are explicit in saying they favor “job creators”), because liberals like to think of themselves as favoring economic justice. So how do you acquire support from liberals, as he did in the primaries in 2008 and will need to do again in 2012, while pursuing oligarch-friendly policies? You do it by ensuring that liberals only focus on the ceremonial non-governmental aspects of the Presidency. You do it by making sure that they focus only on the televised aspects of the Presidency.
[My comment: The true Obamanites do not really focus on anything having some dose of substance or facts involved.]





How did that whole Dubya thing work out for you?




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 2:19:09 PM)

I was kind of wondering what people thought about a bill Obama will sign that does not include actual tax revenue increases. I don't keep up with it as much as some, but I thought he threatened to veto any bill that did not include revenue increases.

It really is looking like business as usual from both parties, with the majority of US citizens suffering still because of it.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 2:25:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I was kind of wondering what people thought about a bill Obama will sign that does not include actual tax revenue increases. I don't keep up with it as much as some, but I thought he threatened to veto any bill that did not include revenue increases.

It really is looking like business as usual from both parties, with the majority of US citizens suffering still because of it.


Im not sure that he ever said he would veto ANY bill that didnt have tax increases. All I recall is a threat to veto CCB specifically and that was both over no tax increases and cuts to SS and medicare. Of course both of those will wind up in play anyway.




Fellow -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/1/2011 6:03:27 PM)

quote:

How did that whole Dubya thing work out for you?


Not good. Bill Clinton was a scumbag as well. G.H. Bush was the last decent president.




StrangerThan -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/2/2011 8:00:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

"Angry Democrats turned their fire on President Barack Obama with unprecedented ferocity on Monday, accusing him of a capitulation to Republicans that has seriously harmed his chances of re-election in 2012."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/8675899/US-debt-crisis-angry-Democrats-turn-their-fire-on-Obama.html


I didn't read your link since I'd already read a couple of others along the same vein.

It's bullshit. Dems can get as angry as they want. Who the fuck are the going to vote for?

A Republican?

Yeah right.




rulemylife -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/2/2011 8:03:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

How did that whole Dubya thing work out for you?


Not good. Bill Clinton was a scumbag as well. G.H. Bush was the last decent president.



The read my lips, no new taxes guy who then raised taxes is your hero?





Sanity -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/2/2011 8:05:08 AM)


Who says they have to vote?

Motivation is always a factor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
I didn't read your link since I'd already read a couple of others along the same vein.

It's bullshit. Dems can get as angry as they want. Who the fuck are the going to vote for?

A Republican?

Yeah right.





Hillwilliam -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/2/2011 8:07:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

How did that whole Dubya thing work out for you?


Not good. Bill Clinton was a scumbag as well. G.H. Bush was the last decent president.



The read my lips, no new taxes guy who then raised taxes is your hero?



I'm saying you have to go all the way back to Eisenhower.




Fellow -> RE: Angry Democrats Turn on Obama (8/2/2011 8:18:47 AM)

quote:

The read my lips, no new taxes guy who then raised taxes is your hero?


He is not my hero. He was the last president who actually had direct communication with people. So were the presidents before him. Obama campaign promised to return to this practice, but he totally fails to deliver.




Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.0625