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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 11:14:40 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Pasteurisation is there to prevent devastating diseases like tuberculosis, diphtheria and salmonella. Pasteur is a hero for good reason. The Darwin Awards are well-named.


True, but pasturizing milk destroys the enzymes that help you digest it. That's why many struggle with it and are considered lactose intolerant. It is perfectly safe to drink raw milk if it comes from healthy cows and is consumed in a short period of time after milking.

Completely untrue. There are no enzymes in milk that help digest it, if that was true milk would break down simply sitting on the shelf in the fridge.

It is not perfectly safe to drink raw milk from healthy cows even if you drink it moments after milking. The animal could be a natural carrier of any number of dangerous pathogens. Also if the udders weren't sterilized along with whatever equipment/hands were used to collect it it could have been contaminated.

Before milk was pasteurized many thousands of children in the US died every year from diseases caught by drinking raw milk.

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 11:17:42 AM   
Sanity


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Youve got things exactly backwards with that one my love, as you so often do. Socialists are the parasites.

Capitalists are the hosts...


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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 11:24:34 AM   
Lucylastic


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where would capitalists be without workers
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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 11:26:22 AM   
nephandi


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Pasteurization will let you store milk far longer than raw milk, and there is definitely benefits to using that procedure, however some of us prefer to consume as natural foods as possible, foods that have been tampered with a little as possible, now coming back to one of the mottos of this site, if consenting adults want to drink raw milk, why the hell should it be illegal to sell it? What should be illegal is to sell raw milk labeled as pasteurized or pasteurized milk as raw, as long as people know what they are buying where is the problem, why should the state babysit people and tell people what they can and can not eat.

For some people they can not drink processed milk, others like the taste better, or follow a diet that demands unprocessed foods, what is wrong with those of us that want raw milk to have the option? None here is saying pasteurization is bad, no one is attacking it, however some of us is defending free consumer choice.

Now if the cows are healthy and the milk is drunk shortly after milking raw milk is not dangerous, also cooking with raw milk is no more dangerous then with processed milk as then the milk still get heat treated though some of us find that for example a cake baked with raw milk tastes better than with processed milk. Some of you seam to think that you drop dead if you drink raw milk, if that where true there would be allot of dead farmers, seriously people if handled right then raw milk is not dangerous, I come from a farming town where it is quite common for people to get their milk and eggs and so on from their own farms and I have yet to hear of anyone getting ill from it.

I wish you all well


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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 11:27:39 AM   
MileHighM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen




Completely untrue. There are no enzymes in milk that help digest it, if that was true milk would break down simply sitting on the shelf in the fridge.

It is not perfectly safe to drink raw milk from healthy cows even if you drink it moments after milking. The animal could be a natural carrier of any number of dangerous pathogens. Also if the udders weren't sterilized along with whatever equipment/hands were used to collect it it could have been contaminated.

Before milk was pasteurized many thousands of children in the US died every year from diseases caught by drinking raw milk.



As I said for the parsites, it has to be a healthy cow, also, you can test for them.... I understand, but if you want drink it, that is your choice!! Don't feed cows shit and you won't get shit in return.

As far as digestion and enzymes, probiotics and nutrients read this: http://www.livestrong.com/article/365608-why-drink-raw-milk/

Enough of telling people what they can or can't do. If they want to take the risk let them as long as they know what the risk is.

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 11:29:06 AM   
MileHighM


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Status: offline 		bravo nephandi

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 1:25:37 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		There is no law in the US against the consumption.  The law is against the sale.

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 1:39:20 PM   
nephandi


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Perhaps it is time those laws are changed, as then unless you own cows you can not legally get raw milk and that to my mind is silly, you can buy as much liquor you want, but not raw milk? And that really makes no sense to me, like I said, in Norway most people have at least tasted raw milk and a fair percentage of the population drink it regularly and I have never heard of anyone getting sick, it is not that dangerous, it should be up to the individual to choose whatever they want to drink it or not.

I wish you well


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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 1:50:17 PM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		1) Is milk even healthy to consume in any form?

2) Who owns the biggest dairies in CA? This is where you will find the people responsible for the "killing" of these so called jobs.

Sanity and wilbur don't understand how the gov't works.

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 1:57:48 PM   
Punkt


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Status: offline 		I lived in Brandenburg (North Germany) and Yugoslavia. They always boiled the milk (that they milked from their cows) and then cooled it and drank it afterwards. Of course, at those times and places, there wasn't enough technology to heat it suddenly and cool it suddenly, which is said to be a better way.

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 2:21:56 PM   
nephandi


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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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quote:

1) Is milk even healthy to consume in any form?


Yes and no, it do have vitamins and minerals that are good for the body and it do have quite a bit of protein, however it also is hard to digest by human adults, however I would go so far as to say raw milk is more healthy than processed milk, but no all in all milk is not in reality all that healthy.

I wish you well


_____________________________

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Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 2:25:10 PM   
wittynamehere


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
There is no law in the US against the consumption.  The law is against the sale.

Same as with cannabis.


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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 2:40:42 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen




Completely untrue. There are no enzymes in milk that help digest it, if that was true milk would break down simply sitting on the shelf in the fridge.

It is not perfectly safe to drink raw milk from healthy cows even if you drink it moments after milking. The animal could be a natural carrier of any number of dangerous pathogens. Also if the udders weren't sterilized along with whatever equipment/hands were used to collect it it could have been contaminated.

Before milk was pasteurized many thousands of children in the US died every year from diseases caught by drinking raw milk.



As I said for the parsites, it has to be a healthy cow, also, you can test for them.... I understand, but if you want drink it, that is your choice!! Don't feed cows shit and you won't get shit in return.

As far as digestion and enzymes, probiotics and nutrients read this: http://www.livestrong.com/article/365608-why-drink-raw-milk/

Enough of telling people what they can or can't do. If they want to take the risk let them as long as they know what the risk is.

This site is wrong on a number of points but I'll correct just one of your claims. There is no enzyme in raw milk that aids digestion. Raw milk exposed to non sterile environments or allowed to sit in the open air may acquire lactobacilli, or another less good bacteria. Lactobacilli are the bacteria that converts milk into yogurt. If raw milk naturally contained lactobacilli then all milk would be yogurt since lactobacilli work best at the temperature milk is at inside the udders. Raw milk could be intentionally dosed with lactobacilli, adding live culture yogurt would work, but if the conditions were right for enough lactobacilli to grow to significantly digest the milk, making it safe for lactose intolerant individuals, then it would be yogurt.

I'm fine with adults knowingly taking risks. However why should children be exposed to a well known health risk simply because their parents have bought into bullshit like the above website?

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 2:46:20 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

Greetings

Perhaps it is time those laws are changed, as then unless you own cows you can not legally get raw milk and that to my mind is silly, you can buy as much liquor you want, but not raw milk? And that really makes no sense to me, like I said, in Norway most people have at least tasted raw milk and a fair percentage of the population drink it regularly and I have never heard of anyone getting sick, it is not that dangerous, it should be up to the individual to choose whatever they want to drink it or not.

I wish you well


Norway has very strict regulations and does not allow large scale sale of raw milk.
http://english.vkm.no/eway/default.aspx?pid=278&trg=Content_6444&Main_6359=6582:0:31,2562&6606=6597:2&Content_6444=6393:1812586::0:6597:12:::0:0
http://www.realmilk.com/where-other.html#nor

Raw milk used in cheese in Norway was found to be extremely contaminated with potentially harmful bacteria.
http://www.vetinst.no/eng/Research/Publications/Scientific-publications/Scientific-Papers-2011/Staphylococcus-aureus-and-Listeria-monocytogenes-in-Norwegian-raw-milk-cheese-production

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 3:00:04 PM   
MileHighM


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Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline 		hmmm... here:
Quoted from the site:

http://nourishedkitchen.com/10-reasons-drink-raw-milk/

Raw milk is rich in food enzymes.
As a living food, raw milk is also rich in natural food enzymes: lactase, lipase and phosphatase number among many of these natural enzymes. These enzymes help your body to better digest milk and better metabolize its vital nutrients. Without these vital enzymes, the milk’s natural sugars, fats and proteins can cause reactions in individuals prone to food intolerances. Enzymes like phosphatase help the body to better absorb milk’s calcium while other enzymes like amylase and lactase help you digest the sugars present in milk. Lactoperoxidase, another enzyme found in raw milk, offers antimicrobial properties which, again, helps to keep potential pathogens at bay. These enzymes are painfully delicate and very heat-sensitive, pasteurizing milk destroys them and the benefits they convey to you.



-----------

Now Mr. Ken,

Why do you have such a hard on for this? Do you have kids? Do filter the air and water in your house? Do you allow them into a car? Do you allow them to play with other children?

They can get the flu from being social and potentially die!!!!

Cars are fucking lethal, killing millions of people anually!!!!!!

There is polution in the air!!!!!

Chlorine, lead, arsenic, and other trace elements in the water!!!!

Educated people can take educated risks, and as long as parents aren't being blantantly neglectful and stupid, how they raise their kids is their business. You want legislate that every parent be forced to breast feed their kid?? Its best? But what if you just don't want to or can't really provide enough for your kid? You can still love them and feed them and raise good people.

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 3:20:05 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This site is wrong on a number of points but I'll correct just one of your claims. There is no enzyme in raw milk that aids digestion. Raw milk exposed to non sterile environments or allowed to sit in the open air may acquire lactobacilli, or another less good bacteria. Lactobacilli are the bacteria that converts milk into yogurt. If raw milk naturally contained lactobacilli then all milk would be yogurt since lactobacilli work best at the temperature milk is at inside the udders. Raw milk could be intentionally dosed with lactobacilli, adding live culture yogurt would work, but if the conditions were right for enough lactobacilli to grow to significantly digest the milk, making it safe for lactose intolerant individuals, then it would be yogurt.

I'm fine with adults knowingly taking risks. However why should children be exposed to a well known health risk simply because their parents have bought into bullshit like the above website?


What about acidophilus? Isn't that the stuff in yogurt that is good for your digestion? I know that you can find it in pill/vitamin form as well. Where does that enter the milk to yogurt progression?

I know that for making yogurt you have to add the live yogurt to the milk (pasteurized in my house) and let it sit.



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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 4:02:19 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Where does that enter the milk to yogurt progression?

Around the point where you'd stop putting the milk in your coffee.

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 4:07:06 PM   
nephandi


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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

Norway have strict regulation in about any type of food sales, raw milk included. Also yes apparently at one time some raw milk cheese was contaminated, we have also had normal cheese, vegetables, honey, ground meat, peas and many other food objects be contaminated at one time or another, such things happen from time to time, however one shipment of some food item contaminated do not mean every item of such a type is.

Be Well


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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 5:08:13 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

hmmm... here:
Quoted from the site:

http://nourishedkitchen.com/10-reasons-drink-raw-milk/

Raw milk is rich in food enzymes.
As a living food, raw milk is also rich in natural food enzymes: lactase, lipase and phosphatase number among many of these natural enzymes. These enzymes help your body to better digest milk and better metabolize its vital nutrients. Without these vital enzymes, the milk’s natural sugars, fats and proteins can cause reactions in individuals prone to food intolerances. Enzymes like phosphatase help the body to better absorb milk’s calcium while other enzymes like amylase and lactase help you digest the sugars present in milk. Lactoperoxidase, another enzyme found in raw milk, offers antimicrobial properties which, again, helps to keep potential pathogens at bay. These enzymes are painfully delicate and very heat-sensitive, pasteurizing milk destroys them and the benefits they convey to you.


There is no lactase in raw milk. Lactase is an enzyme produced in the small intestine of young mamals and some adults. Lipase is a broad category of enzymes that break down ester bonds of fats. It is produced mostly in the pancreas but some is excreted by mammary glands, if you didn't make lenty of lipases you would be dead. Phosphatases are another broad group of enzymes are bodies make in a variety of types. Neither phosphotases nor lipases are likely to survive intact when passing through the stomach, the strong acids present denature proteins as the first step in digesting them.

quote:

Now Mr. Ken,

Why do you have such a hard on for this?

Perhaps its because the raw food people are spreading so much outright lies and misinformation?

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RE: Lactose Intolerance - 8/6/2011 5:11:36 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This site is wrong on a number of points but I'll correct just one of your claims. There is no enzyme in raw milk that aids digestion. Raw milk exposed to non sterile environments or allowed to sit in the open air may acquire lactobacilli, or another less good bacteria. Lactobacilli are the bacteria that converts milk into yogurt. If raw milk naturally contained lactobacilli then all milk would be yogurt since lactobacilli work best at the temperature milk is at inside the udders. Raw milk could be intentionally dosed with lactobacilli, adding live culture yogurt would work, but if the conditions were right for enough lactobacilli to grow to significantly digest the milk, making it safe for lactose intolerant individuals, then it would be yogurt.

I'm fine with adults knowingly taking risks. However why should children be exposed to a well known health risk simply because their parents have bought into bullshit like the above website?


What about acidophilus? Isn't that the stuff in yogurt that is good for your digestion? I know that you can find it in pill/vitamin form as well. Where does that enter the milk to yogurt progression?

I know that for making yogurt you have to add the live yogurt to the milk (pasteurized in my house) and let it sit.



The bacteria that changes milk into yogurt is called lactobacillus acidophilus. When yogurt is marked as being acidophilus that means it contains live cultures. AIUI kefir, a kind of halfway done still liquid yogurt, is far enough along that many lactose intolerant people can digest it.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 40
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