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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/7/2011 11:31:20 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		i haven't seen adjustment bureau and i still will, but that ending does sound pretty silly. =p but maybe the point's in there somewhere? i haven't seen the movie so i'm just spouting off, but this being controlling everything decides to allow something arbitrary to happen, something that isn't of her own design, so is that the maker's way of saying something? i dunno what, but... eh...

still, it seems awfully convenient and a little too easy. =p i'll have to see the movie.


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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/7/2011 11:39:53 PM   
Epytropos


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Status: offline 		(still Adjustment Bureau spoilers) No there is no statement, the writer had just painted himself into a corner and the only way out was deus ex machina - for the nigh-omnipotent villain we hadn't met yet to be completely inconsistent with the actions of the organization she ruled with an iron fist and with everything we'd been told about her to that point with no explanation whatsoever. The only statement I could think to try n take away from it would be a satire of religion - IE all the adjustors/priests are doing things a certain way because they think the director/God wants them that way but when it comes down to it director/God works in mysterious ways. I'm thinking that's way, way too much credit to give the film, though.


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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/7/2011 11:50:12 PM   
Unkreative


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Status: offline 		Ok, Sucker Punch was art in that it was a unique premise. However, that's where it ends for me. Again, I dig the whole hero/heroine idea. But at some point you question the necessity of killing off EVERY character the heroine comes in contact with? In my opinion, it was just too much.

As far as what other movies that I'm referring to as crap... Let's just start with the ones I mentioned earlier.

In Titanic, we all knew the ship was gonna go down. But there was no need for them to kill off Jack. I mean, seriously. It didn't help move the film along. The only sense of something good was when you find out that the douche she was pseudo engaged to ends up committing suicide when the stock market crashed.

City of Angels... This one is just cruel as there is no way to make this a happy ending without it coming out worse than Beastly. But it's ridicously sad. Both in the writing AND in the ending.

Pay It Forward. Again, the movie didn't gain anything by Haley Joel's demise. Only now as a parent, I'm seriously questioning whether or not I should let my kids continue attending public school. (Ok, this movie isn't the only reason I'm questioning public school, but for the sake of argument, let's just pretend it is.)

P.S. I Love You... I'm kind of going back on my original opinion of this one only because it does seem to have some meaning to it. The chick learns how to deal with his death and learns to keep living. The fact that she ends up with his best mate from back home is a little fucked up, but still.

Brokeback Mountain. Ok, now I know I'm in a same-sex relationship and according to every gay man I know, I'm totally being blasphemous here for saying it, but this was quite possibly the 4th worst movie ever. (behind 1. It's Pat: The Movie 2. Napoleon Dynamite 3. Nacho Libre) Yeah, we all know that there's gay bashers in the world. Blah blah blah. But there was nothing added to the movie by them killing off Heath's character. It just reinforced the idea that if you come out, hillbillies will drag you out to some dusty road and beat you senseless. I was like, really Hollywood? This is the best you could come up with? I actually left the theater angry after watching it.

As far as Adjustment Bureau is concerned, I can't give my honest opinion of it just yet as I have the DVD sitting on the TV waiting to be watched. But don't worry, hearing (or reading) spoilers doesn't really kill the experience for me. I'll just end up reading more into the movie to figure out why what you mentioned happens that way. I'll have to report back on that one.

< Message edited by Unkreative -- 8/8/2011 12:00:22 AM >

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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 12:08:50 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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Status: offline 		they had to kill jack off in titanic, otherwise the whole thing would have been pointless. she moves on and lives her life, but she really did keep her word, she never really fucking let go. a brief encounter can stay with you your whole life

and city of angels is a good movie it has several messages, the biggest is that being human is its own reward, no matter how fucking painful. it also has a powerful message about the nature of the judeo-christian god.



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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 12:20:17 AM   
Unkreative


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Status: offline 		City of Angels just sucked big monkey nuts. He gave up being a freaking angel to be with her. He literally gave up heaven. Now he's stuck here and she's up there. Looking past the fact that it's Nicholas Cage playing the part, it could've been a good movie. But how exactly did you come up with "being human is it's own reward" from that? If anything, it was the complete opposite. Being human meant he gave up being with god to be with her and god took her away from him as punishment. Moral of the story, turn your back on god and he'll kill Meg Ryan. I suppose that's better than god kicking a puppy for Nick's insolence.

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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 12:34:22 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

Moral of the story, turn your back on god and he'll kill Meg Ryan.
that's the message about the nature of god i mentioned. question his "gifts" and he'll fuck you up.

as to the reward thing? fuck it was obvious. him and the other angels are fucking bored, their existence is empty. by becoming human and losing her he learns why mortality is a gift and not a curse, he learns to value each moment. when he had eternity, it was pointless, when he gave up heaven, existence had a purpose. spending your life serving god <or any higher purpose> is a waste of being alive, you should live it for its own sake. pleasure, pain, joy, sorrow, all are worth experiencing, because they are a consequence of being human. he learns that being human with all its messiness, pain and sorrow is more valuable than an eternity of empty unfeeling perfection.

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i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 1:30:45 AM   
Epytropos


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Status: offline 		Heather is spot on with Titanic, if he'd lived the movie wouldn't have had anything to say, it would have just been another sappy love story. The message is that even an incredibly brief love affair can change your life and that love outlives the death of a partner. If it wasn't brief, it wouldn't have said that. None of the rest of those I've seen, so I won't speak to them, with the exception of noting that coming out WILL lead to rednecks dragging you into the woods and beating you if you do it in the wrong place. That's a thing that happens not uncommonly where I'm from, and I think the idea that Hollywood showing it is somehow bad is a bid for self-enforced naivete. I will admit most happy people I've met are somewhat naive, but I question whether that's something to strive for.

Sucker Punch was art because it showed us that there can be beauty and joy in self-sacrifice. (spoiler alerts) She didn't *have* to escape to be happy, she was happy knowing she had gotten her friend out. It was also art in that it allowed us to explore graphical, metaphorical representations of events, giving us a perspective we would not have had if we had simply watched things transpire.


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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 1:32:08 AM   
Kirata


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I'm with the OP on this one...

We all know things don't always work out. We don't need to have it shoved in our face over and over again. We don't need to learn that sometimes our hopes will be dashed, or that life isn't always fair.

The fact of the matter is, holding fast to the belief that things will work out, even against all odds, is the most important thing in the world. Because more than anything else, that's how we make it happen.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/8/2011 1:38:38 AM >

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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 9:10:16 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

watching one of them isn't just a way to pass some time, it's an exercise in self awareness, like reading a poem or looking at a painting.


Or perhaps entertainment has been a part of the species for a while for a reason, and is as legitimate as art. Heck, one might even suggest that some unrealistic stories serve to inspire by conceiving of scenarios that illustrate that life could be different, if we cared to make it so. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and an argument could be made that there is art in capturing what could be.

What gets me is when a happy ending is too contrived, or worse yet, proscribed (though some of those are indeed making a point of how the norm or desired norm is fucked up). Sometimes, sheer luck does carry the day, but a lot of movies and books force a happy ending without even exhibiting the creativity to allow luck to be the distinguishing factor in the outcome. That cheapens things in my world.

Not everything needs an obvious purpose, and the purpose need not always be intellectual masturbation or public service didactics.

Health,
al-Aswad.


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 9:14:16 AM   
GreedyTop


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OP, if you havent seen Seven, yet.. DONT.

(while personally count it among my favorite movies -which include things like Silence of the Lambs, Reservoir Dogs, and such - given your preference for happy endings.... well, wait.. depending upon ones sympathies, Seven COULD be said to have a happy ending...

ok, I am now confuzzled about how I see it.. DAMMIT!!)

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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 9:18:24 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		so ... Aswad is gnarly.
just thought it needed to be said.


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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 9:23:05 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The fact of the matter is, holding fast to the belief that things will work out, even against all odds, is the most important thing in the world. Because more than anything else, that's how we make it happen.




A bit of sisu goes a long way, but in the absence of that, faith (trusting that things will work out, which I think is more important than "just" believing it, as it lends itself to "making it happen") is the means by which both the human species and individual humans have gotten by. A technologist I respect a lot once said that nobody had so far found a better way to predict the future than to make it, which takes precisely faith in the work one is doing.

Great post, Kirata.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 10:00:32 AM   
lazarus1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos


OOO another great example, speaking of things that I saw recently that were shit @spoiler alert@- the Adjustment Bureau. What the fuck? The super-human being that decides the fates of all mankind and doesn't believe in our ability to make our own decisions decided to just let them be together because, hey, they seemed to really want it? I'm betting LOTS of people really want to do things she forces them not to, what makes those two different??



I quite liked The Adjustment Bureau, and not just because it's a Philip K. Dick story.

The monologue at the end says that these characters chose to "write their own story," and that maybe that was the point, was that sometime humanity could grow enough that the Chairman wouldn't have to write the story anymore.

These characters never had a choice to deviate from the Chairman's plan until they realized there was a plan. Matt Damon's character was first to realize it, and he finally had a choice. Go along with the plan, and eventually become President of the US. Or deviate, and be "reset" (turned into a vegetable).

Damon's character, and eventually his girlfriend, chose to deviate, to attempt to write their own story. If you believe the Chairman and the bureau are based on christian mythology, then they literally stormed heaven to attempt to see their choice through. They stormed heaven intending to question the chairman, to question god itself.

Instead of being punished, they were allowed to continue to write their own story. It was only after they risked all in making a real choice for themselves, were they granted this reprieve.

< Message edited by lazarus1983 -- 8/8/2011 10:07:44 AM >

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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 3:43:12 PM   
Epytropos


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Status: offline 		Ok but that's precisely my problem. They chose to storm the castle of the being who believes humankind is incapable of making good decisions in order to talk her into letting them go against her plan, and then she decides that since they were ballsy enough to do it they don't even need to plead their case. What creature that believes itself qualified to run the lives of an entire species is going to let 2 people just wander off on their own because they challenged her?


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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 3:50:22 PM   
Unkreative


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~

OP, if you havent seen Seven, yet.. DONT.

(while personally count it among my favorite movies -which include things like Silence of the Lambs, Reservoir Dogs, and such - given your preference for happy endings.... well, wait.. depending upon ones sympathies, Seven COULD be said to have a happy ending...

ok, I am now confuzzled about how I see it.. DAMMIT!!)


Yeah, I've seen it. Another fucked up movie. But at least I didn't go in thinking it was gonna be a happy go lucky film. Anytime I start watching a flick and see some dude has razerblades strapped to his tallywacker (Yeah, I said tallywacker. Get used to it.) just before he goes to town on some unfortunate prostitute, I feel pretty confident that I'm not gonna end the evening feeling better about the world around me. Now, had that prostitute been the chick from the movie Teeth, it could've been a battle royal Michael Buffer style... "Let's get ready to rumble!!!!!"

And while I know it's a little fucked up, I did get a little hungry after seeing the glutony scene in Seven. Does that make me a bad person?

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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 3:54:32 PM   
lazarus1983


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Status: offline 		Matt Damon's character challenges the bureau, saying if they're in charge why is the world such a shitty place. They respond, 'But it's still here, isn't it. If we'd have left everything to you it wouldn't be.'

Obviously the bureau members themselves aren't perfect. So why do we automatically assume the Chairman is?

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RE: I'll call you back, Mom. I have to dispose of the ... - 8/8/2011 4:07:34 PM   
Epytropos


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Status: offline 		I'm not, I'm saying she clearly thinks of herself as more qualified to run the world than the people that live in it, and there's no reason she would change her mind about that just because they visited her at home.

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They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

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