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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 2:49:39 PM   
slvemike4u


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Kirata,if I am in error here I apologize.....but I could swear I posted a similar belief not too long ago(that she doesn't stand a snowballs chance in he'll) and you responded with a warning about the inroads made by the religious right.
Wasn't that You?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:04:34 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Wilkins might have said that, and I have no doubt that Bachmann believes it....

But it is a smear on Robt. E. Lee. He wasnt that hepped up for or against slavery, he was offered the US Command, but went with his home BORDER state, Virginia.....

He was about even steven with Lincolns view of slavery at that time.



Maybe but Lee took action and instead of staying out, was actually quite prepared to give his life along with the thousands he commanded into battle...and did. So he fought for the support of nothing less than institutionalized sin. There is nothing at all noble in that. In fact that's why the modern reach for the few powerful racists remaining to find other 'Christian' justification for slavery and suggesting they had it better at anytime than they do now is a pathology born of political expediency and without intellectual honesty.

As I said, no matter what some fans have to say about her now, she will employ a few people, make just these kinds of noises, get her butt kicked and go home. The south wanted to expand slavery west, Lincoln wanted to buy them and send them home. I want to know what's up with Minn. even putting her in the house.

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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:06:44 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekcuckbull

Light Horse Harry Lee was wise enough and smart enough to realize first that his forces could not challenge the powerful artillery of the British fleet close to shore...he lured them inland to unfamiliar gound...away from artillery support and once he had them inland..he found the perfect place....and ambushed and cut them to pieces..... Not bad for a cavarly guy.... and I would take Michelle Bachman any day over this loser we have have now.... She is one hell of a lot more steet smart than this bozo.....Leftwing jerks should realize that what you adovate is killing the ecomony and jobs.... Socialism only works till you run out of other peoples money and then it becomes communism. Obama is heading the nation straight to that place.... He makes that loon Carter look good by comparison.

Ridiculous on it face. You can't know what socialism is unless you are talking about the rich on wall street and their bankers. I'll go along with that.

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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:08:20 PM   
mnottertail


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Well, hells bells man, did anyone sit it out? And remember, lets not romanticise some of these notions that grow better in the telling, and dimmer in the memory. He went with his state, (he was not a federalist) and the goddamn civil war was not fought over slavery, (very big biproduct, but a peripheral nonetheless) but over states seceeding from the union and seizing and occupying federal property.



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:09:41 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


"Grab yer torch and pitchforks, the hated enemy is on the loose..."

Bush and Cheney were probably hated more than any enemy of the left, they were the target of the lefts intense hate for ten years or so

Then we had years of Hate Hate Hate Palin threads following the 2008 elections

Then it was Rupert Murdoch for a short time

And the sporadic HATE FOX NEWS / HATE Rush Limbaugh / HATE Glenn Beck threads

Now Michelle Bachman has assumed the most hated enemy of the left...

Who am I leaving out?



Why Bill O'Reilly of course.
Boy, what a bunch of spitefull and bitter people the left is.
When they swear at me or call me names in here I just let it go so everyone can see what they're really like.
When are they going to start hating Oblunder? It's about time, he's driving this country right off a cliff!
I have a new name for him,..."Barakolypse."

9/08 He asked to drive and was given the keys to a car already headed over that cliff, looking for a parachute, checking that the airbags are on but the house sabotaged it.

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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:19:20 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, hells bells man, did anyone sit it out? And remember, lets not romanticise some of these notions that grow better in the telling, and dimmer in the memory. He went with his state, (he was not a federalist) and the goddamn civil war was not fought over slavery, (very big biproduct, but a peripheral nonetheless) but over states seceeding from the union and seizing and occupying federal property.


Sorry Ron but this is pure revisionist bullshit.The south had an issue with over saturation of slave stock....the only way to address this issue was expansion,nothing else would have maintained the value of the slave.Over saturation as in all things meant the law of supply and demand would have devalued slaves.In addition slave populations were becoming alarmingly high in border south states.....what to do with all of this stock,why expand west of course,that would have dealt with the issue for another generation at the least...of course the rest of the nation was in no mood to expand the institution of slavery,hence the war.
The only reason for southern states to secede from the union was the slave issue...everything else is just smoke and mirrors meant to convince non slaveholding southern men that they had a stake in the war.
I idolized Lee as a child,that whole glorious lost cause underdog thing....there is no denying his military genius,just as there is no denying he fought and led men in defense of an undefecible institution...everything else is just smoke and mirrors!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:23:54 PM   
mnottertail


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Sorry top drawer bullshit. Cotton was king. They needed more slaves and were pissed off that the west was voting to keep slavery out, meaning they couldnt move there and participate. So, they were trying to foment a takeover of Cuba and South America (since they couldnt talk the US into taking Mexico which forbade slaves).

Missouri Compromise, Wilmot Proviso and Henry Clay 'the great compromiser' and several other things at that period before and after the secession and leading up to it. They wanted federal OK for slavery, and that is where the states rights argument was put to in the west, most being against slavery in their constituions and for 'free-labor'.

Jefferson Davis as secretary of war had moved a great deal of federal arsenals to the south, and the occupation of one, fort sumpter......well....

Famous speech about that at the time:

BY SENATOR BENJAMIN FRANKLIN WADE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Wade

Wade was a typical self-made man, a true representative of the vigorous fanners of Connecticut stuck in northern Ohio. His fearlessness in opposing slavery made him prominent in the Senate, where his rugged style of oratory and his disinclination to mince his words often led to an exchange of pertinent remarks with prominent defenders of slavery. This speech is in reply to an equally sharp harangue by Toombs, the question at issue being one of precedence between the homestead bill and a bill to appropriate money with which to purchase Cuba. The burden of Toombs's remarks had been a sneer at the " land to the landless" bill..

AM very glad that this question has at length come up: I am glad, too, that it has antagonized with this nigger question. We are " shivering in the wind," are we, sir, over your Cuba question? You may have occasion to shiver on that question before you are through with it. Now, sir, I have been trying here for nearly a month to get a straight forward vote upon this great measure of land to the landless. I glory in that measure. It is the greatest that has ever come before the American Senate, and it has now come so that there is no dodging it. The question will be, shall we give niggers to the niggerless, or land to the landless? . . .

... I will meet that measure. I do not tremble before them or their owners, or anybody else; and it does not become gentlemen of the Senate to tremble over a measure. Sir, it is not very senatorial language. God knows, I never tremble before anybody. I do not expect to tremble before anybody. I do not expect to use language that ought to be offensive to anybody here, and I will not submit to it from anybody.

I moved some days ago to take up this subject. It was said then that there was an appropriation bill that stood in the way of this great question being settled. The Senator from Virginia had his appropriation bills. It was important, then, that they should be settled at once; there was danger that they would be lost, and the Government would stop in consequence, and an appeal was made to gentlemen to give this bill the go-by for the time being, at all events, and the appeal was successful. Gentlemen said the appropriation bills must be passed; and, although they were anxious for the passage of this bill, nevertheless it must be postponed for the appropriation bills. The appropriation bills lie very easy now behind this nigger operation. When you come to niggers for the niggerless, all other questions sink into perfect insignificance. But, sir, we will antagonize these measures. I appeal to the country upon them. I ask the people do you choose that we should go through the earth hunting for niggers, for really that is the whole purpose of the Democratic party? They can no more run their party without niggers than you could run a steam engine without fuel. That is all there is of Democracy; and when you cannot raise niggers enough for the market, then you must go abroad fishing for niggers through the whole world. Are you going to buy Cuba for land for the landless? What is there? You will find three quarters of a million of niggers, but you will not find any land; not one foot, not an inch. I am exceedingly glad that the question has come up. Let us now see who are the friends of this land measure; let us vote it through; and then, without fear or trembling, take up the nigger bill.

I say there is no excuse for gentlemen who are really in favor of this measure. Tell, me, sir, that you skulked behind this Cuba bill? It would be a very poor story to tell those landless men of whom the gentleman speaks. These lacklanders will say to you: "When we lacked land, and you had it in your power to give it to us, you went off fishing for niggers." Will that satisfy them? It may, and it may not. I fear that there will be trembling in some quarters over this question. I hope the vote will be taken, and I warn every man who is a friend of this bill that now is the time; now or never. Give this homestead bill the goby now, and it dies, and every man knows it. Therefore it is idle to tell me that any man is a friend of the homestead bill who will not give it his support now.

Mr. President, I do not like these taunts and threats about fearing one question or another. I do not very much fear anybody or anything. It would be a very uncomfortable state of mind, I should think. But, sir, I am in favor of this measure. The merits of it, I suppose, are open to discussion. I think it would be easy to show that there has not been, at any time, a measure so fraught with benefit to the people all over the country, as this great measure — the homestead bill. If gentlemen see fit, they can pass it in ten minutes; and then we can go back to the nigger bill, and take that up, and make the best headway we can with that. You need not be ten minutes in passing the bill, if you are true to yourselves, true to your constituents, and faithful to those who have asked at the hands of every honest man that this measure should pass. I say, again, there is no reason to skulk it now. It is fairly up. It is in contrast with the other measure; and no man can fail to see that he who votes and prefers one to the other, has done it because his soul was steeped in the nigger bill.








< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/11/2011 3:27:26 PM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:33:48 PM   
slvemike4u


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Cotton was king...and slavery was what made it so.Diffusion Ron,all about diffusion,Virginia for instance has an alarming percentage of slaves within it's midst...the States economy would have collapsed were those slaves to lose their value....a absolute eventuality absent new territories to sell and ship this human merchandise to.
Absent the access to new slave territories the south was looking at an economic calamity...not to mention the loss of political power were the new western states to be admitted sans slavery....every issue was about,tied up with or revolving around slavery.Slavery was the great division that drove all other differences....two people who shared the same history and for the most part prayed to the same god did not start shooting at each other over anything but slavery.One thought that their God condoned ,even blessed the institution ,the other thought their god felt it an abomination,a stain on the nation.....same god though.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:44:13 PM   
mnottertail


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Oh, hold on, the south seceeded over the corrosion of slavery law federally (state by state) and the second class citizen status they percieved themselves to be in against the industrial norths wage slaves.

But Lincoln and the United States of America did not go to war to end slavery or to curtail it federally, they went to war over secession and the occupying of United States Arsenals (property).

So, we are at cross purposes here somewhat. The US Government did not go to war to end slavery or even to contain it any more than it had been. The south seceeded to expand it, and the Confederate Government went to war to keep and expand slavery and fugitive law to federal levels.

Hell, even their currency always knew they would be back in the union.

Sorta like Walker and the union in Wisconsin, Walker went to war claiming it was about saving money. The wisconsin unions went to war because it was about busting unions.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/11/2011 3:45:47 PM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 3:48:13 PM   
slvemike4u


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Never said that Lincoln went to war to end slavery,as a matter of fact Lincoln famously said that if he could save the union by freeing the salves he would do so,and if he could save the union by freeing no slaves he would do that.Lincoln went to war to preserve the Union,the South went to war to preserve ,extend and perpetuate slavery.....real simple.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 5:04:17 PM   
imperatrixx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Now Michelle Bachman has assumed the most hated enemy of the left...

Who am I leaving out?



Yeah, actually I do hate her. Not as a person, but I hate what she represents.

I didn't hate Bush...I strongly disagreed with his politics but he did not disgust me like this woman does.

The fact that she has even a chance to win the GOP nomination makes me feel ill. She is an ignorant theocrat born of the worst sort of populism.

Her ignorance isn't because if her politics...its ignorance in the literal sense. She goes on and on about the founding fathers then says they worked to end slavery and that 8 year old John Quincy Adams was a founding father. That era is just her schtick but she acts like its her area of expertise.

And I want her Jesus kept the fuck out of politics. For the sale of secular democracy. I don't trust her to be able to fairly make decusions that affect gay American citizens if she thinks their orientation us slavery and her husbands job is to cure them.

Look if you guys want a fiscal conservative can't you find one who isn't an under-educated theocrat?

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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 5:37:23 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Kirata,if I am in error here I apologize.....but I could swear I posted a similar belief not too long ago(that she doesn't stand a snowballs chance in he'll) and you responded with a warning about the inroads made by the religious right.
Wasn't that You?

I don't know, but I guess it could have been. I'd certainly call it a legitimate concern that someone like Bachmann can apparently garner serious support as a presidential nominee. But I don't think she stands a chance of actually getting the nomination, and if I ever did then I've changed my opinion.

K.

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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/11/2011 5:40:26 PM   
slvemike4u


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Fair enough,and thanks for responding...I'm holding onto my belief that my fellow citizens can not be that fucking crazy...not enough of them to elect her.....of course I will hedge my bets by voting(if I could vote often ala the all star game I would do so....lol).

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Michele Bachmann: What do her favorite books tell us? - 8/12/2011 1:08:49 AM   
Fightdirecto


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Yes, the American Civil War WAS about "State's Rights" - the "Right" of the White people in a state to hold Black people in slavery, regardless what anyone in any of the other states thought.

The "right" to hold slaves was really the only "State's Right" that the war was fought over - and some of the decendants of the losers still believe their ancestors were "right" to hold people in slavery.

As Michelle Bachman's authors/heroes/law school teachers & mentors taught her: If those poor ignorant Africans had been left alone to live out their lives in Africa, they never would have learned to eat grits and cornbread, never would have learned how to make their Massa a proper mint julep, never would have learned how to tap dance and would have never know that their "place" was in the back of the bus. Why, they might never have even learned there was such a thing as a bus. And if we hadn't brought their ancestors over here to be our slaves - who would we get today to play basketball, football and baseball and entertain us?

Reminds me of the old argument the English used to use: "We had to invade and occupy Ireland, Wales and Scotland in order to bring civilization to the Irish, Welsh and Scots. It was for their own good."

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

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