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What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/16/2004 11:14:44 AM   
BigBadVoodooDadd


Posts: 29
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline 		Hello everyone,

First of all let me apologize for the long post, I know it is going to be a long one.

I have been pondering posting this for a very long time and to tell you the truth I have gone over the boiling point.

I have been in a D/s based relationship for a year and things have been going down hill for the most of it which is a reason why I have gone back on-line.
I got involved with a great girl that showed great promise and was very much interested in the lifestyle. She already had some kink experience and she wanted to step in to the lifestyle and commit to it and me. After the trial period things were going pretty well. We made an agreement on the rules, how things would be done and how she would behave. We pretty much went over all the things that a Master and slave go over in their "negotiation" before they get into a relationship.

For some reason things went down hill eversince. First it was the school and her not being able to be in the D/s "mood" while there was school going on, then it was her parents and the fact that she wanted to be "free" when she was around them. Every time I wanted to take a step further into the D/s and our relationship the things would result in us taking a step back. Now I have contributed many of the traits she has to the youth and imaturity factor. She went to college, graduated with a double major but she had, and still doesn't have, any clear views on what she wants to do with her life. She wants to work and go into the FBI but does not understand that getting in is almost impossible and she is not even remotely considering the other options. I mean, I have thought about this, I have talked to mutual friends and I have talked to many other people that have the understanding of the situation and most of her behavior has been contributed to immaturity.

There have been issues about her following orders and her not giving me shit about ordering her something that she might not understand why I am making her do. Instead of doing what I told her and asking why in the process she will stand there and wait for me to explain it to her before she does anything which is NOT the way I want things done.
The last problem that I have is the fact that we just had a long conversation about our relationship and the issues. We have had the agreement that all kink related communications would be forwarded to me, that she would ask permission to get on the kink sites and actually contacting others that are in the lifestyle. I am her Master and I have a complete right to control her kink lifestyle more so because we agreed to that.
Anyways, since the conversation a couple of nights ago, after all the issues have been addressed and after I explained to her that sometimes she acts like she does not care, she goes onto Bondage.com without asking permission and without even letting me know she is doing it. Not just that but she then continues to justify her action by giving me some bullshit excuse that did not make one bit of sense.

So, what I am asking for is you to give me advice on a few issues;

1) what do you do when you are in a relationship with someone that stops caring about the core of the relationship?
(we actually started our relationship with D/s in mind and have based the whole relationship around it, if there is no relationship then we would have to start all over and I DO NOT WANT a non D/s based relationship at the moment)

2) Is there any way to actually get back on track with things?

3) How far is too far before you actually cut your losses and move on with life?

4) Is poly a solution or would it be just an escape?

5) Do you have any suggestions or solutions that I have not thought about?

I know that you will say that I am young myself but age is not a maturity factor, I've been in the lifestyle for almost 10 years, have been on my own since I was 18 and have grown up and matured quite quickly.

I also want to say that I do very much love the girl but the fact that I am not where I want to be relationship wise is killing me. Especially because we have had an understanding from the day one that this is the path the relationship would be going down... the D/s path.


Thank you A/all!


BBVD
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/16/2004 1:47:06 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		I just read your profile BBVD and am a little confused because it sounds like you are not committed to this girl but are looking for a sub. You say here that you have been in this relationship for a year, but you make no mention of her in your profile.

From what you have said about her, to me it sounds like she enjoys scening and maybe role playing but not 24/7 submission. Maybe you need to clarify that with her.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/16/2004 2:56:00 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Iam with Proud. You said she isn't allowed to go to online D's related area's without your permission. Is that because she might feel that you are also not commited to the relationship because of your profiles?

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/16/2004 3:53:07 PM   
BigBadVoodooDadd


Posts: 29
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline 		Profiles have nothing to do with real life to tell you the truth. This profile is an old one and it has been around for much longer than our relationship has ever existed. I never felt I have to change the profile PLUS I also mentioned that I am back on line pondering finding someone else.

Anyways, the profile is not an issue and if you can only find that as an issue then I think you are missing a wider range of things. My commitment to her has been full for the past year and sincere, it still is but that is NOT the issue.

Thank you though for the response!

BBVD

(in reply to EStrict)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/16/2004 4:41:57 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Have you ever asked her if it is an issue? Heck, I have profiles that I haven't changed in 5 years, so I am 5 years older. But, since I am not looking for anything, and my age has nothing to do with what I have, then that is not an issue. But, if you have had a profile the entire time saying you were looking, it is not illogical to wonder if she has had doubts in the commitment.

You are right though.. what it boils down to is this: If she is what you want, you should make sure you are also what she wants. You haven't said her age, but have called her immature. There is a difference (IMO) between being immature and being youthful.

The other thing I had a problem with is the comment "then it was her parents and the fact that she wanted to be "free" when she was around them. "

Would you rather she call you *master* around them and possibly lose the relationship she has with them? Me, I'm always me. My parents learned about my life choices, and being the *good catholics* they were, they basically disowned me. One of the most hurtful comments I have ever heard in my life was my mother saying it was probably good my ex stole my children because I was *the kind of woman she always tried to keep her children away from.*

We were estranged until afer I got together with Master. He MADE me call my mother, because he knows how important family is to me. When we are with my family (or his for that matter), I call him Ross. And where I *am* still *me*, so I do things like get him a drink or fix his plate, or take his dishes to the kitchen, and if Master put his *like* of some of the *slave like* things he may want in the privacy of his own home.

I ask Master if it's ok to do things (go to lunch, a movie with friends, whatever). But if we are visiting my parents, and my mom wants to go to the store and he's still sleeping, I am not going to say I have to wait until he wakes up to ask permission.

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/16/2004 4:49:10 PM   
OMC


Posts: 14
Joined: 9/15/2004
Status: offline 		1) what do you do when you are in a relationship with someone that stops caring about the core of the relationship?
(we actually started our relationship with D/s in mind and have based the whole relationship around it, if there is no relationship then we would have to start all over and I DO NOT WANT a non D/s based relationship at the moment)

:::Perception is reality. If you perceive this as so, then it is. Have you asked HER if SHE wants/needs a Ds relationship at the level you perceive you do? Once you have that answer you will be able to make informed choices concerning your wants/needs.:::

2) Is there any way to actually get back on track with things?

:::Not without both people making a conscious effort. Refer to answer #1.:::

3) How far is too far before you actually cut your losses and move on with life?

:::When you have done everything -you- can do to create the environment you need. Again, see #1 as it relates to her.:::

4) Is poly a solution or would it be just an escape?

:::IMO- escape.:::

5) Do you have any suggestions or solutions that I have not thought about?

:::Many times we remain in relationships due to -hope-. Dominants especially due to our very nature of thinking we can fix, guide and nuture another. In some cases we can, and others we can't. IMO the true sign of maturity is to be able to clearly accept the things we cannot change, change the things we can....and to know the difference. No one can tell you this. The answer comes from within yourself as you view your perception of reality and life skills.:::

You later write:

'I also want to say that I do very much love the girl but the fact that I am not where I want to be relationship wise is killing me'

I would ask you to look at this closely. Who is it you love? The person she is, or the person you want her to be? I believe we -love- a person because of the way they help us feel about ourselves. A person who rocks our world being who they are is one where a huge investment of emotion belongs. IMO when we say as you did above about your love what we really are saying is ' I love the person I want her to be because then she would be perfect.'

Have the conversation I suggested with her and then decide if there is a middle ground. One last thought.... all negative emotion comes from a situation not turning out the way we wanted, or a person not acting the way we want. Yes, humans are that self centered of an animal. When we can accept the challenge of owning happiness regardless of anothers actions, and also understanding what we have the ability to change, then life becomes fulfilling instead of days filled with drama.



(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/16/2004 5:07:05 PM   
Goodmix


Posts: 86
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		when the "slave" doesn't care?


1) what do you do when you are in a relationship with someone that stops caring about the core of the relationship?
This is comparative to a vanilla marrige where one spouse is cheating on another. If the cheating spouse is confronted, (as you have confronted the slave) and they decide not to change, you either put up with it, or end it.

2) Is there any way to actually get back on track with things?
Not in my opinion

3) How far is too far before you actually cut your losses and move on with life?
That is a decission that only you can make, but i can tell you that in my opinion, she is topping you and if the relationship does continue, she has earned some disapline.

4) Is poly a solution or would it be just an escape?
Is poly something that was negotoated in the beginning? if so, then Poly MAY be an option for you, but first i think you should let her know and second change your profile reflecting that. The reason i say to do it second it that she may either start acting as she should (but if she does i do not beleive it will last long so don't stop Your search) , or leave (are you ready for her to leave?)

All of this being said, i think i should also mention HONESTY is very important in D/s M/s. It starts with being honest with Y/yourself about what Y/you want. It is also about being honest to your mate about what Y/you want. Sounds like honesty was missing from the beginning on someones part (maybe both parts)
If you are paying all her expenses, maybe she is looking for that. That may be ok for you. There are many kinds of slave, maybe she is intrested in service? Would you pay for a live in house keeper who happens to be kinky?


Maybe you should renegotiate the contract???

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/16/2004 8:43:52 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Voodoo,

I replied before reading any other posts so I apologize if any of this ground has been subsequently covered.

So much to comment on and respond.
quote:

I have been in a D/s based relationship...
It starts at that, it was D/s "based". I don't know what that means. Is it akin to been almost pregnant? I would guess that's the root of the problem. Between the two sides of D/s the D is by far the most responsible for discipline.

quote:

...went over all the things that a Master and slave go...
Another statement that is problematic. There is no such thing as a standard list that "Master and slaves go over". It sounds like your partner was very naive with little experience. What did you use as a guide to go over? What real time experiences did she have to be able to understand what being a slave meant? I'm sure with your 10 year experience, you realized that her perspective was way different then yours. Did you allow room for her growth? Allow her access to other reference points? Allow for the understanding that her growth and development could alter your original plans?


quote:

I am her Master...
I know this will piss you off and it should. but how do you support this position considering everything else you have said? I'm sure if you thought about it, you couldn't.

The strength and mental discipline that it takes to graduate college with a double degree and consider a career in the FBI may make it difficult to adjust to D/s home life. It can be and is done all the time. But it takes a very strong and confident Dom to deal with such a personality, and make it submissive. If there is any, even subliminal, thought process on your part that her accomplishments pale against yours; that insecurity will be corrupting. It will take an honest self evaluation to determine that.

Regarding your questions...

1. Nothing you have said truly indicates she has. I don't think she respects the relationship. The situation has gotten further then ideal, but the solution is still communication. It can be a very short or very long discussion depending on one question. "Do you want to have a relationship with me as your Dom/Master and you as my slave?" If she answers no, it's a short discussion, say goodbye. If yes, then you have to have a very long discussion about what when right before, what's gone wrong now, and where you want to be short and long term.

2. Yes, and if the question to #1 solution is yes, you'll go much further down those 'right tracks'.

3. You seem to be at that crossroad now. And there is never a 'loss'. Any experience carries with it something to take to your next. Learn from it and it's never a loss.

4. Ah.....NO! Feel comfortable and be successful with one, before considering a clan.

5. Maybe couple counseling? Do you know any lifestyle couple that you can have an open discussion where you can draw from their experiences?

Loving your slave should not be an issue. I love mine very much, and more likely spoil her more then I should. Second to my love of her, is my love of our relationship. I hope I would correct any drift from the relationship long before that would jeopardize my love for her.

As much as you hate hearing it, your age is a factor. Your development as a Master and hers as a slave occurred while you were also developing as a person. Once college is ultimately through people feel the pressure to become "adults". Sometimes people who start early in this lifestyle as the both of you have, identify it as part of their 'experimental college years'. Even if college was part time and accompanied a full time job, you'd be surprised how often this occurs. Make sure that's not the case with her.

I hope some of this helps.

Good luck, and best wishes.





(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/17/2004 10:40:32 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

I know that you will say that I am young myself but age is not a maturity factor, I've been in the lifestyle for almost 10 years, have been on my own since I was 18 and have grown up and matured quite quickly.

Print this out, put it in a time capsule and open it up in 10 years or more. You ought to get a good laugh out of it after you've grown up some more. It happens to all of us.

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/19/2004 8:57:07 AM   
GazeDeep


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/10/2004
Status: offline 		1) what do you do when you are in a relationship with someone that stops caring about the core of the relationship?

Unless she has a desire to care...you face the reality of it and move on.

2) Is there any way to actually get back on track with things?

Not unless both partners are willing to do what it takes to get back on track.

3) How far is too far before you actually cut your losses and move on with life?

About this far...

4) Is poly a solution or would it be just an escape?

Neither

5) Do you have any suggestions or solutions that I have not thought about?

Unless you know for a fact she is testing you and is looking for punishment to reinforce your authority...there is little you can do. You say you have had conversations with her but it sounds like either she did not tell you what is wrong or you did not hear it. I suspect she got into the relationship for the kink only and all the "following orders" and "control" stuff is boring and irrelevant to her and not what she wanted. Some women only want the kink...live with it or move on.

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/26/2004 8:43:16 AM   
cheeba0228


Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline 		I think that for all reasonable thoughts that i could come up with the one thing you should do is this. Take the message you just wrote out to us asking us for help, copy it and paste it in an e-mail to her. The questions you are seeking answers to are really ones that should be asked of her not us.

_____________________________

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!


(in reply to OMC)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/26/2004 10:44:07 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		My impression is that she is not that interested in being a sub/slave and continue the the D/s relationship as you say you want the relationship to be, and cut/paste and send this email to her, discuss it honestly, than move on to heal your heart.
Good luck..
Lady in RI

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/28/2004 6:45:03 AM   
duktigflicka


Posts: 8
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		From the point of view of a sub, it seems rather simple to me. She seems to enjoy the D/S, but not to the level you do. It looks like you're trying to push 24/7 seriousness onto someone who just wants some play once in a while. I don't see any sign of immaturity, just incompatibility.

EDIT: On top of that, if you'd call her immature, why would you get together with her? You clearly don't respect her. Best for both of you to break it off, I think.

< Message edited by duktigflicka -- 10/28/2004 6:46:04 AM >

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/28/2004 7:23:15 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBadVoodooDadd


1) what do you do when you are in a relationship with someone that stops caring about the core of the relationship?
(we actually started our relationship with D/s in mind and have based the whole relationship around it, if there is no relationship then we would have to start all over and I DO NOT WANT a non D/s based relationship at the moment)


In the examples you have given, it doesn't seem to me that she doesn't "care" about the relationship, but rather she has other priorities in her life at the moment. I don't know the ins and outs of your negotiations at the beginning of the relationship, but I would think that her schoolwork and her decision to find a career that she wants would be a priority for her. Also, I am fairly sure that she doesnt want to be in cuffs and collar, kneeling at your feet when Mom and Dad drop by for Thanksgiving dinner. These are definately things to think about and plan for when beginning a relationship. Have you considered talking with her about how you can work together to help her achieve her goals while she continues to serve her Master?

quote:


2) Is there any way to actually get back on track with things?

COMMUNICATE

If you both still want the relationship, perhaps you should both sit down and discuss what is most important to you. Renegotiate your contract if you feel that some things were not addressed. I know of a few couples who renegotiate their contract every year. They sit down monthly and discuss issues or potential problems that may be negotiated into contract at the end of the year. Seems to work for them as they have been together for over 20 years.

quote:


3) How far is too far before you actually cut your losses and move on with life?


That is a question that only you and her can answer. Do you both want the relationship? Why?

quote:


4) Is poly a solution or would it be just an escape?


It depends on the intent, really. Are you poly? Is she poly? If not, and you're just looking to fill the space while she's busy living her life, well...you might as well cheat. What happens to girl #2 when girl #1 is ready to make you her number 1 priority again? I don't believe that poly is really a solution in your situation, but then...I don't really know all the details about your situation.

quote:


5) Do you have any suggestions or solutions that I have not thought about?


Communication, consistency, honesty, doing the right thing, and doing what you say you are going to do has been a pretty good formula for my relationship, perhaps it will work for yours.

~Thorns


_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 10/28/2004 4:05:19 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I have to agree with Thorns on this one.

First off, you tell us it has been a year or so you've been in this relationship. Your profile is an old one...yet it clearly states right beside your name. Posts: 29
Joined: 6/23/2004 That clearly is not old.

Aside from that. It appears neither one of you are happy with your current relationship. You need to go over it. Perhaps re-negotiate if you want to remain together. Define what the relationship needs to be to serve the both of you. Compromise, we all have to do it.
She has obviously grown. Perhaps the lifestyle is not for her? Who truly knows without asking her? Perhaps you are not the right Dominant for her.
Too many scenerios to play out to hit the right one. It is so easy to ask her. You may not like what you hear but at least then you will know.
Good Luck.

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 11/8/2004 2:23:26 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		Everyone has a desire or a "button" one can push.
I "was" plannng on training a VERY young lil one. And due to her age (yes she is now over 18) The button I found was her desire for pain.
Her desire for Pain even over rode her little voice and her trust level.
If the wrong person got ahold of her she indeed could be severely damaged as a person.
So for HER the "button" was that she was a pain slut.
Unfortunately she has found another master "Meth" and I will no longer assist her.
(If I had collared her then that would have never happened- but due to her age and circumstances I kept a hands-off approch on many things)
But while we developed a trust level she had a hard time even doing a daily journal.
and even after explaining to her WHY I wanted it she had a hard time accepting that as a valid reason.
And the use of pain with her was more in the "carrot and stick" type of training.

In short. If the subbie/slave does NOT wish to do something they will not.
You must depend on a "button" you can push or her/his desire to please you.
Or even their desire to learn more about themselves.. if its not there it is just not going to be there.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 11/8/2004 4:10:53 PM   
Nvernilla


Posts: 303
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline 		Holding hands cupped palms up; real sub....play sub?
...Mykal

(in reply to BigBadVoodooDadd)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 11/9/2004 6:01:59 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		The question (as presented) seems simple to me.

The problem doesn't seem to be (as others have mentioned) that he is looking for another sub - he doesn't mention that their relationship is exclusive (even if he is defensive about the issue.) The problem probably isn't related to her maturity, his maturity, or their lackthereof either.

The problem seems to be a basic "we've both grown, just not together." The girl in question, social and emotional maturity aside, has a double major (not a small task) and seems career focused. Her parents approval are clearly important, and many subs & slaves use the lifestyle as a means of releasing the pressure from an extremely demanding and stressful vanilla life. When presented with the question of 24/7 service, naturally the response is "yes, I want that" because anything less then 110% perfection is acceptable to this sort of personality - when in reality, they simply do not have the time (and truthfully, the interest) to commit to such a situation. And, to be fair, how many dominants truely have the time to keep such an active creature busy to the point of fulfillment? I know, personally, I don't have enough hours in the day to work a job, AND keep a type A personality slave under lock and key, AND sleep.

No mention of the other elements of the relationship are discussed i.e. mutual interests outside the playroom, and I don't see any suggestion of any sort of romantic element between the two, aside from being around her parents together. If this relationship is strictly D/s based, then more power to it - but it sounds more like the real question is 'is this just a romance gone stale?'

BBVD, if your frustration is at losing a slave, trust me there are plenty of slaves out there. If your frustration is with losing a lover, then you may wish to address the romantic side of the relationship first, because it sincerly sounds like you forgot many slaves don't serve out just from craving, but from love.

Stephan

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to Nvernilla)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 11/11/2004 6:24:41 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Wow..
This is a WAY different scenario than you & she posted about over on b.com......

So which IS the truth????

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: What to do when the "slave" doesn't care? - 11/11/2004 6:07:36 PM   
RealityFix


Posts: 156
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline 		Shrugs........

I'd say if you can't enforce agreements with her, you aren't in anything I'd define as "D/s".

And if you can't enforce agreements, she doesn't respect you.

I'd ask myself this. Why would I bother with someone who didn't care about my feelings.

And what might *I* have done not to be respected?

(in reply to Wolfspet)
Profile   Post #: 20
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