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RE: Who else carries? - 8/21/2011 7:55:32 PM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Find any weapons-owning parents and teach them, no disagreement here.

Let's deal with education of the owners first, how's that?



See, Ed, I fell into this deal years ago. I had kids around the house. The news purveyors were offering up one talking head after another, one column after another, one editorial after another from folks I didn't realize at the time, just hated weapons in the first place. A good many wanted guns out of the house period. Another set, wanted them locked up, locked away, kept like the liquor, the porn - pretty much anything else that curious types will eventually play with once they start becoming more autonomous. Or at least, thinking they are.

But now, I'm a guy who likes to ask the after question a lot of times. As in, given these scenarios of kids growing up force fed one image after another in movies, on tv, some even with musicians, how am I going to feel if one of them gets hold of a gun, and being a total idiot, either shoots themselves accidentally or shoots someone else. The answer wasn't a good one, so I sold my guns and lived on in happy ignorance that I had obeyed the advice of people who knew. 

Two things eventually changed my mind. One was the realization that I couldn't keep them away from guns indefinitely. The second was my own raising. By the time I was 6, maybe 7, my uncle had me hunting with him on a consistent basis. I knew by then how to load, fire, carry, check and be safe. It was such a natural part of life. The question that kept coming back to me when I'd read about some kid shooting himself or someone else, wasn't OMG how did that happen, but why? Why didn't he or she know how dangerous they could be? Why didn't they know that the only time a gun is unloaded is when you have verified that yourself? Why didn't they know already where guns were supposed to be pointed? The why question was never answered by the stories.

Then I thought about the fact that when I was 12, I shot an intruder. Even though I'd heard many times in the years after how lucky I was to have had someone teach me about firearms when I was younger, it never really hit me how much of that action was a result of my uncle taking the time, and how differently the time might have turned out if he hadn't.

Around that point came another after question, that being how am I going to feel after a situation where one of them might need to use one, and not know the first thing about it. I had that mental image of them scattering shells around on the ground trying to figure out how to load whatever it was.

That's about the point I walked back in the house, told them they were going to learn to use them. Why? Because it was the only action that answered all the why's and solidified the fact that if they ever needed to, they'd know how. I could have never bought another weapon. But in the end, the two things that allowed me to do was blame everyone, and question myself afterward, would it have been different if I had taken the time to teach them basic safety over something they would encounter in life.

I can still blame other people. What I don't have to do now is wonder why I didn't love them as much as my uncle loved me, because he took the time to take the mystique away, to teach me not just how I should act with them, but how others should too.

< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 8/21/2011 7:56:11 PM >


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RE: Who else carries? - 8/21/2011 8:10:06 PM   
mussorgsky


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I grew up shooting bolt-action .22LR target rifles at camp every summer starting when I was six or seven years old. This eventually led me to join local target teams and competitions when I grew older (high school and beyond). I knew my way around rifles and had a basic understanding of shotguns and handguns, but with no "hands on" experience of the two until much later in life. However, the first thing we always learned with each new season was basic gun safety. These things translate across all platforms (weapons systems). No, you don't know the finer points of clearing a jam on an autoloading pistol from using a bolt-action rifle but you still know exactly what not to do with it and why. My family was never big on guns but accepted my choice to carry and was actually pleased when I brought home a Soviet-era Nagant revolver (less training than an auto, cheaper to buy than a shotgun and doesn't have the recoil issues of one either) for home defense, a move validated after several break-ins and robberies in the area. It took less than five minutes to explain loading, unloading, how to fire and basic firearms safety.
As for keeping things around the house, my stuff is always locked up unless it's on me or near me. I do not worry about the little munchkins playing with them because they are kept away from them and locked securely. Besides, all the munchkins around here get the safety lesson when they turn six or seven years of age. The training alone does wonders. My grandfather used to keep a pre-WWII .22 above the fireplace that he had inherited from his father. I always knew better than to play with it and so did everyone else in my family. It was something to be admired from a short distance and held only for inspection, cleaning, and defense.

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RE: Who else carries? - 8/21/2011 9:43:57 PM   
Edwynn


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Excellent stories, StrangerThan and mussorgsky.

We all grew up with  different experiences.

I wonder if other folks here are freaking out over our stories?


Well, thanks then to new member mussorgsky for inspiration for this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCEDfZgDPS8








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RE: Who else carries? - 8/21/2011 10:15:24 PM   
Termyn8or


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Thanks for the link. I will be ripping it soon after I determine that it is at least in stereo 44.1K. I never heard of the name before.

T^T

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RE: Who else carries? - 8/21/2011 11:09:46 PM   
Edwynn


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"Pictures at an Exibition" is Mussorgsky's biggest claim to fame.

Much other good stuff to be had from that corner, though (e.g. Dawn On The Moskva River, but you have to be in the mood for it).

I personally think it's a crime to small-case the name Mussorgsky, but that's just me.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/21/2011 11:13:01 PM >

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RE: Who else carries? - 8/22/2011 8:14:51 AM   
mussorgsky


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Yes, a great composer. Personally, despite the name, I am much more of a Dvorak fan but like Mussorgsky a lot. I decided against Dvorak as a screen name since there is a keyboard layout with the same spelling (pronounced as read by Americans, not the Czech pronunciation) and I know too many computer geeks that would assume I used that instead of QWERTY. For what it's worth, his Symphony No. 9, The New World, is my absolute favourite piece of music.
As for the gun stories, well, yeah, people are going to get freaked out. I had a guy yelling at me about open carrying, legal where I live, because it was scaring the children... who were right behind me in queue for the cinema, saw the sidearm, and said nothing nor avoided me. The most ironic part is that he was yelling about setting a bad example for them... by throwing a hissy fit... at over 50 years of age... in a public place... and disturbing the peace. Savage is right, liberalism is a mental disorder.

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RE: Who else carries? - 8/22/2011 8:24:34 AM   
Hillwilliam


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To you non gun owning folks (that is part of your freedom of choice and I have no prob with it).

You say that people who don't own guns shouldn't teach their kids gun safety because there are no guns in the house.

Would you also say that a celibate single parent shouldn't teach their kids about sex because there is none in the house?

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RE: Who else carries? - 8/23/2011 9:40:12 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

And as intelligent as refusing to teach your children about firearms?


Never said I was going to refuse to teach them about firearms. My old man taught me how to shoot, and I'll pass it on, assuming the kid has any interest in it. Otherwise, I'll just teach the basics, like gun safety. It will rank on par with what to do in a thunderstorm. The statistics put the likelihood of getting shot at next to nothing up here, unless you are into organized crime, so it's comparable.

Health,
al-Aswad.

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RE: Who else carries? - 8/23/2011 11:34:38 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


This is getting ridiculous. You're ascribing opinions to me that I've expressly denied holding. The law said the guy didn't provide enough security. I said he provided enough, but could have provided more. To illustrate by using the question about a car used for a hit and run, I've argued that it would be a good idea not to leave the key in the ignition.

Two things could have prevented the accident: the kids not doing what they did, and the gun owner not doing what he did. One of these is old enough and presumably wise enough to anticipate a problem. Another may or may not have been. I have ample suggestions for the parents, but the topic wasn't parenting, and the parents don't read this board as far as I know. It is, however, quite clear that others do read it that are in the position to prevent similar accidents without a substantial effort. And that shouldering that responsibility is beyond one or more of them. Which is fine. Others decide what their own contribution to society will be, and I decide what mine is.

Going above and beyond the call of duty would've eliminated Firestone Exploding Tyres, a number of oil spills, 9/11, thousands of traffic deaths, several disease epidemics, shitloads of crime, any number of poisonings, and- yes- various firearms accidents. That people sit back and say "but why should I take up the slack?" is incomprehensible to me, so I occasionally try to induce some awareness of what we can do together if each of us shoulders just a little bit extra, and what payback each of us can reap from that. But mostly I just go do it myself, as humans are animals of habit, and largely devoid of the inclination to make an effort that is not required, or a sense of the beauty of excellence. One can no more fault the human animal for that than wolves for eating farmers' sheep.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Who else carries? - 8/24/2011 5:39:00 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

A dog will go ten times further in protecting people from bad guys then a gun.


A cat will look at the bad guy with a gun in the same way it looks at a bug.


As far as carrying a concealed weapon...hell yes. I live in a remote area and worked at an inner city hospital. There were many late night trips back and forth on dark country roads, plus the walk from the parking garage to the hospital. The administration asked that all employees check their firearms with security, but it was not mandatory (when you bust your ass to get there for an emergency, it was not realistic that you are going to sign your gun in and out). It WAS mandatory that weapons went no farther than the locker room.

Now i carry a shotgun in my trunk with the ammo in a separate area. I carry a small gun with a safety lock in a case that is also locked.


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RE: Who else carries? - 8/24/2011 5:44:33 PM   
BurntKitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

A dog will go ten times further in protecting people from bad guys then a gun.


A cat will look at the bad guy with a gun in the same way it looks at a bug.


Ain't that the truth!

OP- I would, I was raised around guns and respect them. I don't however, as menopause & guns are a volatile mix.




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RE: Who else carries? - 8/24/2011 6:43:11 PM   
FirstQuaker


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Dunno, came from an environment where everyone had a rifle and an axe, and was in an enviroment where everyone carried an assault rifle or a handgun at least, and can't say either society was as nice as you would like it to be.

But the devil is in the details. I cannot rule out a weapon being needed at times, at least by certain members of society, but hope the social order is kept in such a shape where having one is not a necessity to walk the public streets.

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