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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/16/2011 10:05:24 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


?? It was REGULATION that broke up ATT, and in fact did nothing but INCREASE costs. The increased competition was the natural result of development of cellular technology that has much cheaper infrastructure requirements than land lines, and would have happened without the breakup.




What freaking planet do you live on, boy?

My $60-80 per hour phone calls to the family (at lower rate evening and overnight hours) were reduced to $12-24  per hour in daytime, long before cell phones were common.


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

Well, you can ask Californians what happened after the electric utilities deregulated.


There was only partial deregulation, and it was poorly designed. Prices they could charge were capped, but the cost of generation/purchase wasnt. Deregulation didnt cause the problems, bad regulations did.



As completely fallacious as that claim is, in your own severely warped mind it nevertheless excuses Enron traders from options trading-motivated directing of power plant shut downs by phone call in the middle of a record-breaking Cali heat wave that resulted in numerous deaths and shut downs and bankruptcies of businesses, right?


Go back to wherever you came from or otherwise STFU.

You are nothing less than a disgrace to the DNA.

Seriously.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/16/2011 10:19:13 PM >

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/16/2011 11:11:19 PM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

Both sides are the whore puppets to the Wall Street masters.
qfft

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/16/2011 11:46:58 PM   
Termyn8or


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Willy, you omnipotent in cancer too now ? I am not even going there but you are strangely present when anyone says anything that goes against the status quo. Ever notice that ?

Anyone ever notice that ? Anyone at all ?

T^T

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 1:38:14 AM   
tweakabelle


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Deregulation has the mantra of free market economics and right wing/conservative parties throughout the West for past few decades. Can any one offer an example of a country where deregulation has generated full employment? It hasn't happened here, nor the UK, nor the US.

The experience here has been deregulation has resulted in lower wages (after cost of living adjustments) for working people, outsourced manufacturing industries and jobs, higher profits and higher salaries for those at the top, and greater concentration of wealth in the hands of the few. Can any one nominate a Western country where this has not been the case? The same people who insist capital and trade be deregulated and globalised make no attempt to globalise human rights or freedom for ordinary people - so Western consumers are sold cheaper consumer products on the backs of cheap (often child) labour in Asian sweat shops.

Deregulation of the financial industry enabled the Global Financial Crisis. Irresponsible excesses by cowboys of paper trading are widely blamed for almost bankrupting the world. The same financial cowboys then begged to be bailed out (at enormous cost) by that 'arch-enemy' of commerce, Government. Profits are privatised and losses socialised. How can any one trust them not to screw things royally again?

It's clear that deregulation has been an enormous swindle that has favoured only the rich and powerful while destroying millions of ordinary peoples' lives. It's time democratic control was exerted over the machinations of the avaricious con men who run the finance industry. Capital must serve society as a whole, not a tiny group of rich and powerful utterly selfish Gordon Geckos who can only be trusted to enrich themselves and demand that the rest of us pay for it.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/17/2011 1:41:34 AM >


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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 2:36:15 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Can't speak for telecommunications, or banks...
But insurance companies are just like any other company, they're out to make as much profit as possible for their share holders, and that's why my state made it illegal for them to drop you when you need the coverage the most.

Hospitals operate on very slim margins, and due to many uninsured people using them for basic care, they are constantly taking a hit with people who can't pay, therefore they charge those that can, much more to stay in business.


Yet you are one of the people who constantly bitch about Obama's healthcare plan when it remedies what you just stated.

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 2:57:41 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

IThere's all different kinds of insurance. Auto and home seem pretty cheap to me, but I'll agree on the medical stuff.



Thats because the vast majority of the health insurance premium is for things that shouldnt be insured in the first place, and why "donut hole" policies will replace most of the traditional policies if Obamacare finally gets repealed.



And then we will all hold hands and skip down the yellow brick road.

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 8:46:56 AM   
MileHighM


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Sam,

The cost of texts would be higher with more regulation b/c the gov't would prefer to tax each text sent. The reason they are high now is cause dumb shit parents payed for their kids cell phone bills and didn't whoop their ass for sending 5 million messages a month. If people didn't pay, they would be cheap. However, isn't it like 30$ a month for unlimited data and texts on most providers for a smart phone? Idk my sprint plan at 80$ month unlimited everything seems really fricken fair.

Seat belts laws are not really there to regulate the auto companies. They are there to regulate you. Look, they may have forced em into the cars, but they had to force people to start wearing them too. Example of bad regulation in the auto industry is oxygenated fuels. 30 years ago, they helped with CO emmissions. Now engines are far more efficient and won't generate all those emmissions. So the only thing oxygenated fuels do anymore is keep corn prices high, and ruin your gas mileage because they reduce the number BTUs/gal in gasoline.


Even the UN has come out against the US biofuel industry. Regulation has caused far too much interst in these fuels. As a result millions of acres of food producing land have been converted for biofuel crops. This has caused massive inflation in food prices. While it doesn't have a major effect here, people all over the world are struggling even worse to afford food, hell, even mexico has had tortilla riots over the price of masa.

Really, when you look at regulations there is a litmus test. Does this regulation maintain public safety? Or, does this regulation maintain a level playing field for fair competition? If the answer is 'Yes,' I say keep it. However, there are these questions. Does this regulation exist only support a particular political agenda? Does this regugulation exist to protect an industry or company from new immerging industries or companies? If the answer is 'Yes,' I say dump it quick. I think it is great that we have regulations that tell employers to pay overtime, ensure a car has reasonable safety measures installed, and prevent monopolistic behaviors in business. However, there exist crap regulations and subsidies, like ethanol (I know that has been recently changed), that cost us more and benefit us none. Most airline regulations of 50 years ago, were protectionist. Sure, we may have deregulated too much, but without any deregulation, none of the discount carriers like soutwest would exist today, and airfares would be $1800 round trip from LA to San Fran (airfare was stupid expensive 50 years ago, and look at inflation).

My arguement with you is in your OP where you make this a partisan debate. Both sides don't know the meaning of intellegent regulation. You argue that it is just the GOP who is opposed to regulation, not true. The DNC refuses to place any regulation on attornies and the alternative energy industry. We need tort reform, but we hear all the doom and gloom of people running around getting screwed cause they won't be able to sue anymore. BS, if the regulation is sensible. I work in the solar energy world, and we really need some regs. There are so many charlatans out there peddling crap that will 'change the world' but will only just drain your pocket book. It makes it a real struggle to gain legitimacy in the world when you are associated with such scum. Your partisanship has blinding you to the other side of the equation. Both Ds and Rs have their pets. Both will do anything to deregulate, keep unregulated, and subsidize their pets, while trying to regulate and cut-off the other's pets. The only answer to such nonsense is to keep regulation as broad and non-specific as possible. That way they effect all and not some.

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 9:21:24 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


?? It was REGULATION that broke up ATT, and in fact did nothing but INCREASE costs. The increased competition was the natural result of development of cellular technology that has much cheaper infrastructure requirements than land lines, and would have happened without the breakup.




What freaking planet do you live on, boy?

My $60-80 per hour phone calls to the family (at lower rate evening and overnight hours) were reduced to $12-24  per hour in daytime, long before cell phones were common.








I live on the planet that worked at and then later consulted to ATT during the breakup. I live on the planet that spun a company out of ATT and then sold it 2 years later at 1000% profit, lol.

You appear to live on a planet that doesnt even know that ATT didnt even divest its long distance services.

Prices didnt drop until long after the breakup and not due to the breakup:

"Are we better off today than we were 25 years ago?The answer depends on who’s talking. Competition for AT&T service has not come from similar providers as was hoped when the government broke up the monopoly. Instead, it has come from companies offering mobile phone or Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) services. But these services are different.

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 9:31:37 AM   
mnottertail


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What company might that have been? Because I know more than a little about this and it sure wasnt anything going to lucent.

MaBell divested in 84 so thinking back to 86................stumped.

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 9:33:20 AM   
Edwynn


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Reality bites you in the ass yet again, and all you can do is bark.

The long distance charges went way down before cell phones or VOIP.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/17/2011 9:35:28 AM >

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 9:35:09 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



Reality bites you in the ass yet again, and all you can do is bark.




Facts elude you once again, and all you can do is whine.

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 9:39:09 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



Reality bites you in the ass yet again, and all you can do is bark.

The long distance charges went way down before cell phones or VOIP.







Absolutely did, since everything else was a failure they tried to get into (remember AT&T computers? Reason they divested was so they could get into computers, and it was as a result of their anti trust cases not letting IBM into longlines and phones at all. (of course IBM in turn bought ROLM and fucked that up).

LONG distance went way way way down, and local access went up.


Course, whatever wilbe has said has been easily proven to be wrong, so no exceptions in life have occurred.

we all knew he would be wrong. all of us.

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 1:41:42 PM   
flcouple2009


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No surprises here.  wilbur wrong and claiming once again he had some part in what happened as he makes up his story.


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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 1:48:53 PM   
mnottertail


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Flashbacks from treating paper cuts for the Generals (of course) at fort collins, I expect, what he used to do before he became an insurance peddler (cuz if you note he is pretty expert in that field, and is often right when not out and out parroting the sales brochure for 'Financial Planners Daily'.) Other than that though.................

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RE: Deregulation is the answer? - 8/17/2011 8:26:15 PM   
samboct


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MHM

Interesting points, but permit to disagree.

1) I don't think $1k a year for telco is reasonable- so allow us to disagree here. Since interstate commerce is involved, the feds do have a role in making sure there is reasonable access for all- something which these companies fail to provide. China has better cell coverage than the US- and it's cheaper. But if someone is making minimum wage- that $1k/yr is out of bounds- which creates a barrier to entry for the poor folks that shouldn't exist. Since these companies lease the airwaves, this means that there needs to be affordable access for all.

2) Seat belts were required in cars about 40 years ago- the seat belt regulations are maybe a decade old? I'm not crazy about seat belt laws either btw.

3) Oxygenated fuels- agree. Their need has passed.

4) Biofuels- biodiesel has actually done OK- and can use non-food crops. I noted in another post that there's been a new discovery of a bacteria that produces an enzyme which chews up lignin- thus a variety of crops may be useful for biofuels. I won't count these out yet. However, do you think that corn for ethanol might have come from the folks in Iowa? Don't know if it's D or R- but I think this is one of those compromises that we find in a democracy. Most people in the fossil fuel replacement industry know that the corn from ethanol is just dumb for lots of reasons.

5) The biggest push to deregulate the financial industry came from the Republicans. I know very few D's in favor of it. But when the Oracle aka Greenspan thought it would be a good idea because bankers should have learned from the depression in the 30s, well, who would argue with him? It's certainly not the D's finest hour, since getting rid of Glass-Steagal should have been fought tooth and nail. This is where I get aggravated with the calls of bipartisanship. It seems that both parties are a couple with a joint credit card. When one party goes on a spree, the other one should be digging in their heels if it's not a good idea. But now when the bill comes due- it's both parties responsibility- and it is. But the bill should be laid at the feet of the party that went on the spree who should bear the bulk of the cost of the cleanup. This is where I get aggravated, because to say that the current fiscal mess is the fault of both parties is a gross distortion of the events of the past few years. And the deregulation of the financial industry has dwarfed the economic consequences of all other deregulation/regulation combined....N.B. I won't disagree that tort reform is desperately needed, as is real health care reform, reform of social security, medicare, medicaid, etc.....


Sam

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