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The Death Penalty - 8/22/2011 7:04:40 PM

Termyn8or

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I brought this here for good reason.

UFR

This is a very fast moving thread so.....

haus, This is not an easy issue for sure, but sooner or later someone is going to have to deal with it. I don't know where you stand on the death penalty but there are more considerations than most people think. I come from a slightly differnt type of people. We are not foreign but how we think is little known. We really do not fear death in the least, at least our own.

Of course I can't speak for the whole family, and as they age they do seek medical treatment and such, but there is a time when enough is enough. I have even sought (true) medical treatment once, last year. But if I had found out that there was something seriously wrong I would have died at my own hand, without sorrow, well not much. At my age I can take it or leave it and when I was younger I was somewhat of a daredevil. But that's neither here nor there when it comes to this. The point of what I just said is that I believe I have a unique ability to look at it objectively.

Now, if we force people to live incarcerated for their crimes, for life, never to be free again what are we doing ? We are exacting revenge. If they truly feel guilt, is it right to make them suffer ? Possibly because they have killed and therefore have made the living relatives and friends suffer for quite some time. If that is how we think, so be it.

Know what, I am taking this to another thread right now.

[This came out of the MPD thread, I don't want to be thought a serial hijacker]

But if you think about it more thoroughly though it may be right to use taxpayer money to exact the revenge of having to live a whole life without even the supposed freedom we have, to wallow in guilt for the rest of one's days, so be it.

But haus said, I think, that he kinda felt for the perp's family. Well I can speak to that point. There is no mafia folks, never was, but..... One guy, he's down (decades ago) for a bad drug charge. Every month the family goes down with money to put in his commisary and smuggles him in some goodies. It makes life a little better for him. Eventually he gets out and actually did go straight. He now has a good job and bought his own house, raised a family (with variable results, but....) and actually even quit smoking pot. Quit smoking pot ? Are you kidding me ? When he was in there were always balloons on top of my fridge for the "trip". Oh yeah, I know all about it.

His Father was in for a while. He killed his Wife but they couldn't get him for that, so they got him on a bunch of other shit. He is one I mentioned earlier who actually got a college degree in prison. He also had plenty of goodies because people brought him stuff, stuff that sells for alot in there. The family didn't need to send him money for commisary, he was fucking sending money home ! No shit. He saw prison as a market. His son didn't do so well. He wasn't able to send money home.

But in each case the family was affected adversely by the incarceration, and it's not like they didn't deserve it, but did the family ? But now we have another case. Let's call him MB.

MB was young and dumb and full of cum. Had the hots for this girl and so did another guy. The other guy was taught martial arts but apparently not the restraint, and had threatened to kill MB on more than one occasion. MB is a Daygo and I am allowed to use that word because I am on honorary Daygo, and we don't take kindly to threats like that. Well MB decided to go on over Mr Karate dude's house with a gun. He was young and dumb remember ? I really do believe that he didn't intend to kill the guy, but it happened.

I actually believe the story, that the gun had a faulty safety that made it jam half cocked, why do I believe this ? Because I happen to own a very similar gun. It happened to me, and I was worried about it until I got the damn thing to shoot (I was like, DO NOT MOVE, this thing is fucked up). But now I know how to handle it, but if it doesn't shoot when you want it to you don'r quite know what to do because it is literally half cocked. I believe the kid's story, but that doesn't excuse it.

I've known this kid since he was about five. His Dad and I had business. Good kid, good grades and all this shit is over a girl.

Whether or not he actually intended to kill the guy, he did. If I were the judge I wouldn't believe that it was an accident either for a couple of very good reasons. One, he went over to the guy's house, and two he brought a loaded gun and three the gun was in his hand when a bullet went out of the barrell.

His Father has spent a fortune on appeals and shit, as well as sending money in all the time because that's his banbino and you always take care of family. You never give up. He was eighteen when he went in and I don't think he will ever be eligible for parole.

If MB had been executed his Father would have had closure, and would have saved a fortune. Perhaps to be used for the education of MB's kid, his Granson. Life would go on. I don't know what the Women in the family think because they are that way, the Women stay out of it. I don't even know the Mother's name, that is how they are. But the fact is a funeral would have allowed time to go on, not for MB, but for the rest of the family. Even MB's kid could have a Dad, a Dad not in prison.

The long and the short of it is they would all have been less unhappy after some time passed after the funeral. I bet the kid (I knew since he was about five) wishes he never went over there, accident or not. His Grandfather did a bunch of years for killing someone in a bar on West 25th street long before he was born. Family tradition eh ? But Grampa got off with 11 years, the kid got life. It depends on who you kill of course.

So MB went in at 18, let's say maybe they let him out in fifty years, at 68. He will probably be a grandfather, almost for sure. HE will have nothing, nothing vested even in SS or any skills, and be nothing. Why fucking bother ?

And this is one of my best friend's son ! Firstborn son in fact. But the pain he feels over this having his kid in jail would be felt all at once, and then is over, it would be better for him. But then, is it our intention to punish the Father for the sin of the son ? Yes or no ?

So we all want to look good, to be civilized and not barbaric, but what is more barbaric, a quick death or slow torture ? Slow torture for the whole family to boot. Do we now punish the whole family for the acts of an individual ? Because that's what you do when you don't just execute someone.

These people are pretty close to me, but even so I can say - he took a life, take his. He was threatened, so pack iron. If the guy comes to carry out his threat kill the motherfucker. I have no problem with that. But MB went to his house and killed him.

T^T

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RE: The Death Penalty - 8/22/2011 7:23:21 PM

hausboy

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Joined: 9/5/2010
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Hi Termy

Here is my honest answer.....there are so few things that I'm on the fence about, but this is still one of them.

I have flip-flopped on this issue so many times. I used to be in favor of the death penalty--my thought was "you took a life, destroyed a life, a future and a family so yours should be gone too." Then I started reading about how unequally the death penalty is carried out--how African Americans are far more likely to be sentenced to death than their white counterparts, and there have been circumstances of innocent--and at the very least questionable--subjects, put to death.

And of course, now knowing someone who did actually commit murder (for those of you who hadn't read the other thread--he is a schizophrenic who stopped taking his meds) and seeing the horror and pain his acts (and his life incarceration) caused his immediate family and friends. Hearing the public call him an animal and demand his death really turned me against the death penalty.

And then....
I read stories in the news of people who torture and murder children.... and I just go back to wanting to see them die a horrible death, and the problem I then have with the death penalty is that it is "humane" by comparison to the way the victims dies.

So....I'm wishy-washy about it. I go back and forth. Back in college, a girl I was dating took me to meet her mother. A crazy, eccentric but overall, interesting and enchanting lady and I liked meeting her. She was murdered a few years later--my friend offered to let me watch the execution with her and I declined. I didn't want that image to be the last memory that I would associate with her mom, and I found closure without it.

I don't know if prison is truly effective at rehabilitation--that's a whole other thread. I do not believe that the death penalty deters anyone from killing another person, which is often the argument for keeping it. I don't criticize anyone for supporting the death penalty, because there are times when I do agree with it, but I don't celebrate the death of someone either.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

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RE: The Death Penalty - 8/22/2011 8:07:57 PM

Termyn8or

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That is wishy washy, but for one you're honest about it and I do not mean that as a putdown.

The African American thing, well, either they kill more people or they seem to get caught more, I don't know, but I wasn't gioing to bring race into it. Other than what I have said already on the impact on the families of the incarcerated, there is another factor.

We must come to grips with the fact that with the diversity of the DNA on this planet there are going to be more anomolies, defects if you will. Also with the irresponsibility of people there are going to be more neglected and abused children. If the trend continues it will be like the national debt, no way out. What happens when fully 50% of the population is either incarcerated or in an institution ? I'm not bitching about tax dollars, but then again, what the fuck are they going to magically appear ?

And that's not the half of it. All of these people are miserable. None of them are well adjusted. If it is their fault then we should whack them so they are no longer a reminder. If it is not their fault they either get helped, or get whacked. It is more humane. Quick and less painful. And don't let them tell you painless. I've been shot and I can tell you there is just about no way in hell to die fast enough to make it painless. But it would be preferable than a life behind bars.

The only problem I have with capital punishment is the people who would mete it out, the government. Texas almost boasts about executing an innocent Man, KNOWINGLY. They went to the supreme court to do it. On a technicality.

Other than that, death is quite humane, I would say.

T^T

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