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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 8:26:10 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Experimenting on animals without doing surgery is not vivisection.

Oh ok, then I mistakenly equated the two, based on my previous readings.  In any case, I am anti animal experiments for cosmetics, and anti vivisection, too! 

quote:


Senor Montoya is the character who said the line I wrote in the Princess Bride.

Ha, silly me.  I didn't recognize the line from Inigo Montoya lol.  I was scratchin my head.


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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 10:08:37 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		this thread gets a big basket of points. ^_^
hooray!


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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 10:14:14 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
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Status: offline 		Ooooh Lilly points!  Yay!!  

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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 10:26:28 PM   
Aynne88


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Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		http://www.mercyforanimals.org/vivisection.asp

She isn't wrong and vivisection is repulsive. Also, Peta sucks ass and they are guilty of horrible animal abuse. I am a huge animal advocate and they make me fucking sick. They are an absolute joke.

http://petakillsanimals.com/


< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 8/23/2011 10:27:59 PM >

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 10:34:34 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks, Aynne, I was questioning myself - which isn't a bad thing, but I didn't want to have been misrepresenting all this time.

Some of the things I've read over the years on that practice are indeed repulsive.  The pictures alone on the link you provided are enough to make me cry.

I wish I still had the paper I wrote on the topic, but it was taken. It is inhumane what we do.


ETA: Thanks also for the PETA link.


< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 8/23/2011 10:35:28 PM >

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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 10:43:54 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
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Status: offline 		You are welcome and thanks for letting me post on something that I am so passionate about. *hugs love* 

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 10:46:43 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		*hugs back, dear one*



Please post to your heart's content here.


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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 10:57:25 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
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Status: offline 		Thanks pretty girl ;-) You know it makes me so upset to even usually get into these conversations because I am so visceral about my relationships with animals and not just mine, and yes, I eat meat, and yes, I did post last week about shooting a rabid groundhog, so I am sure someone lurking will pull that thread up to say I am a hypocrite, and I just worked a 15 hour double and I am tired and drained but still...this thread that you started is just so true and so relevant.

Using animals to test products on is just abhorrent and repulsive. If someone can't tel the difference between an animal that is humanely raised and ethically slaughtered as opposed to testing it for fucking lipgloss than please, don't breed and don't own a pet, because you just don't deserve to "own" one. I spent last weekend volunteering for a charity called "Bunnies in Baskets" and they are therapy rabbits for the sick and elderly and let me tell you, rabbits are the most sensitive and intuitive little creatures that I have ever known. Most people here know that I have two house rabbits and just to see those little creatures that are so timid and know that they are prey for everything turn to me for comfort and protection.....omg it is heart-wrenching. I have zero tolerance for anyone that abuses an animal. I have deleted so many "friends" on facebook for making asshole comments about eating rabbits and finding it funny I lost count. Ugh.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 11:12:03 PM   
NuevaVida


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Status: offline 		Oh I understand.  I sometimes even call myself a hypocrite for pushing to promote ethical purchases and ethical animal treatment while still occasionally purchasing commercially produced meat, but as I've said earlier, I do what I can and every little bit helps.  And, we all have to start somewhere. 

I also don't appreciate jokes about torturing animals, and try to stay away from those who find such things funny.

But ethical shopping expands beyond animals, too.  Sweat-shop manufactured clothes, blood diamonds, companies that irresponsibly dump toxic waste, and so on, should also be considered.  I once, years ago, downloaded a list of organizations that engaged in activities I wouldn't want to support, and concluded if I were to avoid all of their products, I may as well make all products myself, and raise my own meat and produce.  Since I'm not in a position to do that, I do what I can, when I can, and encourage making others aware so they can do the same, if they so choose.


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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 11:18:55 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		You are totally right, and none of us are perfect. I mean to a vegan I am sure I am committing atrocities, and I get their point..to a degree.

I will always probably consume animal products and it is my decision to do so the most ethical and humane way  that I can.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 11:22:15 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

I will always probably consume animal products and it is my decision to do so the most ethical and humane way  that I can.


And that's exactly what this thread is for - to list ethical products for those who want to know. 


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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 11:24:24 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Did you ever see that film about the woman called "Temple Grandin"? it was amazing!

http://grandin.com/


< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 8/23/2011 11:25:11 PM >

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 11:35:45 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Wow, no I have not heard of her.  Fascinating stuff. She's like the "livestock whisperer!"

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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 11:40:49 PM   
Aynne88


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Status: offline 		My favorite scene I love this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ff9eW0vEj0

this is the trailer and I think you will love this film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnI_Y8PyTHM&feature=related


< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 8/23/2011 11:44:00 PM >

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/23/2011 11:48:57 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		That was cool. And she's autistic, too?  I'll have to find the movie to watch it.

I clicked around on Youtube after watching that, and learned about "American Humane Certified."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOgQt6G9z0s&feature=relmfu

Here's their website:  http://www.thehumanetouch.org/


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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/24/2011 12:02:42 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		FR

Just to interject real quick......

If animal testing is done to find cures for diseases or something like that, that's one thing, but for cosmetics ?

That's just,,,,,,, I dunno, just how bad do we need cosmetics ? What they need is MONEY, and that's the problem. Of course half of this drug testing could be done away with as well, look at all the class action lawsuits these days.

T^T

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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/24/2011 12:06:00 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Well Termy, I would prefer that the testing be done on criminals and not animals.

One of my favorite quotes:

Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do other creatures.

His Holiness The Dalai Lama


< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 8/24/2011 12:09:22 AM >

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/24/2011 12:26:23 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Just to interject real quick......

If animal testing is done to find cures for diseases or something like that, that's one thing, but for cosmetics ?

That's just,,,,,,, I dunno, just how bad do we need cosmetics ? What they need is MONEY, and that's the problem. Of course half of this drug testing could be done away with as well, look at all the class action lawsuits these days.

T^T


Cosmetic testing can be, and has shown to be, conducted without the use of animals.  Many companies have become cruelty-free, as listed on the links on the OP.  Thank goodness for that. In my opinion, there is no ethical reason for purchasing make-up, hair and skin care products which engage in animal testing.

As for medicine, here's an article on Roche Pharmaceuticals, although I admit I read it with some skepticism, as I believe it's a Roche promotional piece, but they speak of the 3 R's - Reducing, Refining, and Replacement.  Over the years, because of the push toward more cruelty-free methods, vivisection has been reduced a great deal, and Roche speaks of the ability to conduct various experiments in vitro now, instead of on live animals.  Use of anesthetics has also increased, which is good to hear.

They put out an interesting PDF which I can't seem to link to, but a search of  "roche pharmaceuticals animal testing" will bring it up - an interesting read, although again, I'm a bit skeptical.

I did a search on Roche because I used to work around the corner from one of their labs, and I recall talking to a guy many years ago who did facilities maintenance work there.  He said "We hate going into the Beagle Room - they are stacked in cages from floor to ceiling and scared out of their wits."  It broke my heart, and still does when I think about it. 

So, remembering that, I searched it.


ETA:  Here's the PDF, mind you, it's a media piece, so should be read as such. www.roche.com/ar_faqs.pdf

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 8/24/2011 12:36:17 AM >

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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/24/2011 2:29:39 AM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

That means cows, especially the ones raised for veal, chickens and for the most part turkeys as well. Not so sure about pigs and hogs but one thing I found out a while back is that pigs are not happy in mud. They are kept in mud because otherwise they would get away because they run pretty damn fast. Best bet might be Amish country if you can afford it.



Termy I completely agree, about the food we buy.  And from what I understand, pigs are treated cruelly, too.  Unfortunately, the cheaper meat you're going to find is likely not going to be ethically raised meat.  I do what I can, but I can't always afford the free range, non-antibiotic pumped, ethically raised meat.  So I sadly add to the cause, myself.

The Mister's daughter has gone completely vegan for these very reasons.  But that's not something I'm currently willing to do.  I do buy the ethical stuff as much as I can, though.  My thought is, supporting them a little is better than not at all.




If you would like to know how animals are mistreated, there is a documentary you can view. As the preview warns, it's graphic.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142

Going vegan or even vegetarian is easier than you might believe. And it's healthier too.

As for Termyn8or's post about it being "very hard to be properly nourished", that's "very" untrue.



quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I use Brocato shampoo and conditioner. Cruelty-free, sulfate-free and THE best products I've ever found for my hair.


Ooo, thanks for the tip. I might look into that. I like my shampoo (head Organics) but the conditioner I'm not that crazy about.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Did you ever see that film about the woman called "Temple Grandin"? it was amazing!

http://grandin.com/



http://www.collarchat.com/m_3733715/mpage_1/tm.htm

While it's a better solution, the best solution is no animal slaughter at all. ;)



The definition of vivisection per the online Oxford English Dictionary:

vivisection |ˌvivəˈsek sh ən|
noun - the practice of performing operations on live animals for the purpose of experimentation or scientific research (used only by people who are opposed to such work).

Edited to add link to head Organics.

< Message edited by DeviantlyD -- 8/24/2011 2:32:15 AM >

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RE: Ethical Shopping - 8/24/2011 4:32:57 AM   
DeviantlyD


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Status: offline 		This isn't about shopping, but it sort of fits in with the theme of this thread. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ingrid-newkirk/experiments-on-chimpanzee_b_933190.html

The article evokes such sadness, particularly the following:

quote:

These chimpanzees, hundreds of them, have been alone all those decades: no mate, no child, no friend to comfort them, to help them get through the pain of whatever experiment they are being subjected to.




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