RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s?

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RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s? - 5/23/2006 1:14:47 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

I posted that paragraph because at first reading Y put into a nutshell something I had been trying to come to grips with about an experience I had. I think I had a vile trick played on me because I was unresponsive to sexual blackmail simply. I saw it as me having other things in my life that at times had to take proiority. Of course the person could have just finished with me and had done with it but she I assume, was feeling agrieved that her sexual charms weren't strong enough to make me do what she wanted. The trick played on me was her personal character flaw but I think the observation of the dynamic is reasonably sound

Ah, OK. I get it now. Because you fell victim to someone who did this, is stands to reason that submissives, as a general rule of thumb, also manipulate to get what they want by using sex as a weapon, and woe the 'dominant' who doesn't comply.

Doesn't sound like any of the submissives with whom I am acquainted, nor any dominants either for that matter. Maybe you're just unlucky... or karma is biting you in the ass for past sins.

Celeste

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RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s? - 5/23/2006 1:26:11 AM

feastie

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meatcleaver,

It may have been your personal experience, and it may hold true for some people, but it is still a gross generalization. It simply isn't going to be true of every person, or even most people.

Sex is indeed quite important in a relationship. It's more rare to find one that doesn't include sex as one of its cornerstones than not. The inherent flaw in your friend's ...observation, is that sex is a weapon for a lot of people, not just submissive people. Often times, partners withhold sex, mostly from anger about something else. It doesn't make them submissive and it doesn't make them dishonest, it makes them pissed off at their partner and completely human.

It's perfectly natural for people to end relationships because there is something that is not fulfilling them about the relationship. Sometimes, it is sex. The quantity or quality or choice of activities...whatever it is, doesn't match between them. It's a difficult mountain to climb, because for a lot of people, sex ties directly into their emotions.

It really doesn't have anything at all to do with being a submissive person. Being submissive doesn't mean one is a single-faceted creature or without desires and needs just like the next person. Personally, I can tell you that I have never used sex to control a relationship. I've often had sex when I really didn't feel much like it, but it made my partner happy. Generally speaking, I'm not much in the mood when I'm awakened at three in the morning by someone shoving himself into me. I need a *little* wake up time. But, I never once refused him. Instead, I worked hard to get in the mood and provide as enjoyable an experience for both of us that I could.

My profile says that sex occurring more often between the ears than between the legs. I have included that line to hopefully reduce the number of idiots who email me, looking for a hook up. Just because I am not looking for casual sex doesn't mean I'm not a submissive person, it just means that I'm not looking for casual sex.

I don't want someone to become involved with me because of sex. I want him to enjoy the person that I am. Sex will be part of that relationship, but the relationship won't exist because of it.

If sex is the binder, the glue...then there isn't really a relationship at all.

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RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s? - 5/23/2006 9:08:14 AM

juliaoceania

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Im so sorry that you had a bad experience with a submissive...

I had a bad experience with two musicians,.... One I was married to, another I date for two years. They both were extremely selfish, used their music to woo me, wrote lyrics about their "so-called" feelings that on reflection I doubt they were ever able to feel. Had sex with groupies... shall I go on and on about how bad they were? Well I could say X musician and Y musician were dicks, therefore all musicians are dicks.... that is called a logical fallacy, I do not have intimate knowledge of that many musicians in order to make such a genralization about them. (I have known many musicians that act like this)

You have not been involved in many power exchange relationships I gather. There is no way which you have done an analysis of so many D/s relationships by interviewing subs and doms, correlating their answers to questions, and then proving or disproving some hypothesis that proves we use sex as a weapon to control dominants. Now you can think that, post that, and share that opinion, BUT prepared to be attacked for it. You have no proof of what you are asserting. Before I go negative on people and lump them together I tend to like proof of what I am saying, I guess it is my social science background...

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RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s? - 5/23/2006 9:14:10 AM

meatcleaver

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Oh I'm well aware where my cynical streak came from and like most people have told me I should move on and have, up to a point but I threw so much away for that particular woman, everytime I think of her I want to commit murder.

Actually I'm not that cynical face to face but cold writing on a computer screen doesn't help in keeping things in perspective.

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RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s? - 5/23/2006 9:30:54 AM

juliaoceania

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Actually meatcleaver... I like reading your posts, embittered or not...lol

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RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s? - 5/23/2006 11:07:25 AM

txpet

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Contradiction?
Perhaps instead of D/s, the better way to refer to the relationships would be Power Exchange. There is no exchange if everything goes to either side verse the other.

i do think that the different roles that different submissives play effects the amount of "attention" is given to the sub's needs verse the Dom's needs.
i am a pet ... as a pet i take much more than i receive. As a pet, i am stroked and cared for and expected to bring Master joy simply through His interaction with me ... like any fourlegged pet really.
i am also a slave ... as a slave i do more than i have done for. As a slave, i am constantly looking for ways to do for Master and make His life easier ... to serve and please Him.

Obviously both people in any relationship should be having their needs fulfilled or it is not working. i know too many subs that think that their needs are not important ... the best Dom in the world can not help a sub that does not communicate her/his own needs at all.

i have always told people that my needs are the most important thing in my life. i devote myself to Master because it fulfills my needs.
i have no intention of leaving Master but i am pragmatic enough that i know that if for some reason He ever became unable to fulfill my needs, i would have to. To me that is a sign of a healthy relationship and allows Master to relax too.

It is all about me and my service and my happiness as well as it being all about Him and His control and His happiness.

Wow, have i said anything int his mess ... LOL

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RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s? - 5/23/2006 1:44:22 PM

iliv2servher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

OK so Subs have a need to serve, yes, to focus on the needs of their Dom, to bring pleasure to their Master, make his life easier in any way they can.

But it is a need of theirs, fullfilling it makes THEM happy, so doesn't that make it "About" the sub?

Doms have a need to control, direct, do things their way, take up the responcibility for the relationship.

But doesn't that responcibility mean ensuring both sets of needs are met. Given they should have already identified most of their own needs, doesn't that mean a lot of their focus and attention is on finding and learning the subs needs? Again, doesn't that make it "About" the sub?

Just a wayward thought on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
It maybe "My way" but it is ABOUT both of us

I used to believe that a good sub was selfless and did not expect anything in return. I also believed that submission was a gift of love. Well, perhaps it is. But there has to be a payoff somewhere, otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. Not even vanilla relationships are 50/50; and even with those who are most in love, the balance is often varient by a few degrees either way. Giving someone a gift should be it's own reward. Experiencing pain and suffering to please someone can be a powerful gift. But I seriously doubt if it is ever a one-way street

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RE: Inherent contradiction in D/s? - 5/23/2006 4:50:53 PM

txpet

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[/quote]

I used to believe that a good sub was selfless and did not expect anything in return. I also believed that submission was a gift of love. Well, perhaps it is. But there has to be a payoff somewhere, otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. Not even vanilla relationships are 50/50; and even with those who are most in love, the balance is often varient by a few degrees either way. Giving someone a gift should be it's own reward. Experiencing pain and suffering to please someone can be a powerful gift. But I seriously doubt if it is ever a one-way street

[/quote]

Submissiveness is not selflessness.
i do not serve in order to be praised or rewarded either though.
i enjoy service because i enjoy taking care of Master in those little ways. i dervie pleasure from knowing that He did not have to do it.
As far as pain and suffering go...Master is not a sadist. However, i am a masochist.So Our balance is backwards. My gift of submission is in not experiencing pain and suffering. (Though i do have to admit that Master has found ways to fulfill that need for me without His having to do so personally.)

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