This misinformation age ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> This misinformation age ? (9/3/2011 3:54:04 AM)

Sure we have the world at our fingertips, the internet and advanced communication has allowed us to view what mankind has not viewed before, sure, it's great, or is it ?

Now of everything that happens, particularly in the western world, everything we come to know is challenged, broken up and re examined often coming out with different conclusions, history for example, everything we have learned is now open to interpretation, an example of which is a recent UK tv programme that claimed the works of Shakespeare were not his, but the works of another.

Then there is the more recent happenings, the infamous 9/11 and all it's alternative views.

Conspiracy it is all called, but what is the purpose of all this alternative thought and analysis, why can't the past be left as it is, why seek to dishonour people who died hundreds of years ago.

Are we in an age of learning, or unlearning ?

What is the reason, for sure there has to be something in people that seeks to disbelieve and there spread the word.



Kaliko -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/3/2011 4:04:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Sure we have the world at our fingertips, the internet and advanced communication has allowed us to view what mankind has not viewed before, sure, it's great, or is it ?

Now of everything that happens, particularly in the western world, everything we come to know is challenged, broken up and re examined often coming out with different conclusions, history for example, everything we have learned is now open to interpretation, an example of which is a recent UK tv programme that claimed the works of Shakespeare were not his, but the works of another.



That's not a new theory.

quote:



Then there is the more recent happenings, the infamous 9/11 and all it's alternative views.

Conspiracy it is all called, but what is the purpose of all this alternative thought and analysis, why can't the past be left as it is, why seek to dishonour people who died hundreds of years ago.

Are we in an age of learning, or unlearning ?

What is the reason, for sure there has to be something in people that seeks to disbelieve and there spread the word.


There have always been conspiracy theorists. They just have a larger public platform, now.

As far as the reason to disbelieve and the spread the word? How about....truth?



DeviantlyD -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/3/2011 4:15:43 AM)

I don't see what this has to do with Politics and Religion. Perhaps this thread would be better suited to the Off Topic Discussion forum.

I agree with Kaliko.

I'm guessing it's a typo in your last sentence (then instead of there), otherwise, I don't understand your last sentence.

I don't think there are any more people disbelieving. There may be that perception because of how media will usually highlight salacious stories. It seems that controversy sells, I suppose. And as Kaliko alluded to, the internet provides conspiracy theorists with a means of disseminating their "theories" to a larger number of people than they would be able to do otherwise.



StrangerThan -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/3/2011 4:50:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

I don't see what this has to do with Politics and Religion. Perhaps this thread would be better suited to the Off Topic Discussion forum.

I agree with Kaliko.

I'm guessing it's a typo in your last sentence (then instead of there), otherwise, I don't understand your last sentence.

I don't think there are any more people disbelieving. There may be that perception because of how media will usually highlight salacious stories. It seems that controversy sells, I suppose. And as Kaliko alluded to, the internet provides conspiracy theorists with a means of disseminating their "theories" to a larger number of people than they would be able to do otherwise.


I'll take a stab because I think I understand what he's saying, and politics is a decent vehicle for the question. That is, if I'm understanding him.

We have access to more information now than we've ever had. What one would assume would come from that, would be a great and upward arc of learning and knowledge, something that one could imagine being a new genesis for humanity. Aside from that, we're given new ways of interacting, given a voice in many places - like here for example.

Unfortunately, the ideal that encompasses ignores the fact that we're still people, with all our built in curiosities and who are also strongly inspired or effected as it were, by our own experiences. There will always be a core of people who use the internet to both spread and advance knowledge, just as there will always be people who seek to rewrite history with their own beliefs, their own prejudices, and who use it with a degree of intellectual dishonesty to attack others. In many cases, there will probably never be a smoking gun that turns the history we remember on it's head, as in the case of Shakespeare, but enough to raise the question and by default, the controversy that follows.

Politics is a great example. The areas here are gray. One can think of, or remember an individual in one light, yet see them smeared in ways that are polar opposites to the memory or are contradictory to the message and bearing one perceives. And we end up with people whose sole intent and purpose are to create controversy, those who will never rise above pointing out difference rather than similarity, and those who always seek injustice in order to paint their perceived opponents with the same broad brush. They're the flight directors of the world, if the last part of that sentence didn't make sense.

To answer his question, after changing there to then -"What is the reason, for sure there has to be something in people that seeks to disbelieve and then spread the word."

It's because people have their own agendas, especially in politics. In many cases, that agenda falls along party lines and winning elections has much to do with changing the minds of others. And if not changing them, discrediting them to the point where they can be dismissed and ridiculed.

In terms of the attempt to rewrite history, it comes from the fact that history as written for general consumption ignores both bodies of knowledge and peoples to the point that the accepted view is one that ignores earlier controversies, and in some cases is outright wrong. And we all know that every race wants to tell the world how great it is.

I'm not sure the topic belongs here either. I certainly can see how this forum initiated it though.



Aneirin -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/3/2011 5:54:07 AM)

Bingo !

Like it or not, history is politics, it was borne of politics and it's memory creates politics, politics being more than the petty squabblings of power hungry self infatuated individuals in our present plane of interest.

Like it is said, one has to understand the past, i.e. history, for one to understand the present, which will become history.

Furthermore what is the definition of politics, is it just about the wankers who wish to control our lives in the present, or is it about human interaction on all levels, are we in fact engaged in politics every time we involve ourselves in discussions in forums such as this ?

My point is this modern age, this advanced communication that invades our every waking moment, is it good for us, (hell, it is almost subliminal with most people, broadcasts of whatever going on in the background do influence our thought),will it be our nemesis, because it does seem everything that we have learned is constantly being challenged to an end result is that we adopt the three wise monkeys scenario; deaf, dumb and blind, and may I add to that, disinterested and disbelieving and what will come of that, will we inadvertently let in those who will do us harm, in whatever way that manifests.

Is information and misinformation moulding us into seperate people, which of course nulifies the ideal; together we stand, divided we fall ?

Can no one see what I am fucking getting at here ?

Or is that yet another conspiracy, and if so is everything a conspiracy, where do you draw the line.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/3/2011 6:18:06 AM)

sorry man, but it's nothing fucking new. if you would learn a little history you'd know that. take your example of the shakespeare thing, old fucking news going back over 150 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_authorship_question




Termyn8or -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/4/2011 9:21:30 PM)

An

The sky is green. I can prove it because I have a picture. The grass is blue. Aint't you ever heard of bluegrass ?

Why the fuck do you all think I am here ? The news does not inform me, never has. So many times in life even when I was quite young I knew the news was full of shit - because sometimes I MADE THE NEWS. I know personally how they lie, by omission, by editing. Others have expressed this.

More later.

T^T



tj444 -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/4/2011 9:54:49 PM)

Information and mis-information is just more readily spreadable now, with the internet.
Decades ago there were less ways to learn the news and it was much harder to find out if it was true or not, and a longer process. Look at how the internet is used by rebels in other countries and rioters in the UK and elsewhere to meet and create chaos and how it was used by Obama and helped him get elected. Information now spreads at the speed of light, it doesnt wait for the next day to be printed in newspapers and then hand delivered any longer. And with the ease and speed of the internet comes all the people that have information or mis-information, their beliefs, etc and they have flooded us.

But the decision on what to believe or not believe is up to each of us.. as it has always been..

I for one would have a very hard time without my internet since i use it to research projects i am working on.. For me, it is great!!! [:)]



blacksword404 -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/4/2011 11:21:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Sure we have the world at our fingertips, the internet and advanced communication has allowed us to view what mankind has not viewed before, sure, it's great, or is it ?

Now of everything that happens, particularly in the western world, everything we come to know is challenged, broken up and re examined often coming out with different conclusions, history for example, everything we have learned is now open to interpretation, an example of which is a recent UK tv programme that claimed the works of Shakespeare were not his, but the works of another.

Then there is the more recent happenings, the infamous 9/11 and all it's alternative views.

Conspiracy it is all called, but what is the purpose of all this alternative thought and analysis, why can't the past be left as it is, why seek to dishonour people who died hundreds of years ago.

Are we in an age of learning, or unlearning ?

What is the reason, for sure there has to be something in people that seeks to disbelieve and there spread the word.


Reminds me of one of those Ted talk videos i saw a few years ago. More to choose from would seem to lead to more choices. But often it only leads to no choice. If you were looking for a door going to a specific place and there were 5 in front of you. You would probably not find it that hard to find the right one. But let it be one in a thousand and most people would freeze up with indecision or give up because they didn't feel like going through them all.

The same knowledge is out there. You just have more bullshit to wade through to find it.



Termyn8or -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/5/2011 1:10:07 PM)

FR

You know what really fucks us up is the blind belief in credentials. People on this forum sit here saying that their sources are rock solid, not realizing that on the other side of the data stream are human beings, no better or worse then they.

How do you know that I do not hold a PhD ? Did I misspell something ? Oh wait, reputable sources mispell things all the time. If I do I am stupid, if they do they are excused because they obviously have alot more on their mind, or something like that. Actually you won't see it because they have editors/proofers to make sure they look good.

And those letters after their name means they are right all the time. They told you when to eat margarine instead of butter, and then when it was right to eat butter again. They told you that cyclamates were OK, up to a certain day, and then it was time that sugar was good for you again. I forget the dates, and I just don't have one of those machines that tells me what is good or bad to eat that day.

Sarcasm OFF. the fact is that I don't believe anything unless it makes fucking sense,. I am not smarter than all that many people but I seem to have this knack of remembering what I want to remember, since I was about four. When something doesn't make sense my brain says it's bullshit. People been eating butter for centuries but now it causes heart attacks ? Bullmotherfuckingshit. Period.

You need to wear seatbelts ? Bullshit. I can take getting banged around in a car falling off a cliff or running into a big truck. Kids gotta be in carseats ? What, they ain't immortal anymore ? If not fuckit, they'll never make it through life. Salt is bad for you now ? Well yes because salt, as you know it has changed. that's why I got that twenty buck a pound shit. The old type salt, the shit the word SALARY was based on. Yup.

Oh, and people used to live longer. Your statistics are for morons, because all you know is to count. I've been reading an encyclopedioa, just for the hell of it. These scientists and shit, born in 1649, died in 1741, that's pretty fucking old. The statistics are slewed because so many people died of incurable diseases and stupidities from which we are now "protected". In olden days young Men of sixteen years went to battle, on "campaigns" no less. If you live in a community of 10,000 people and 2,500 just died in a war, your average life expectancy just went down. That doesn't mean you are going to die younger you d...... never mind. Medical science in my opoinion has not increased life expectancy except for one thing - the diseases that can now be cured. Other than that they are fucking useless except as mechanics. Surgeons, give them a fucking knife and a table to which they can strap you down and cut out the bad parts.

And even if they could do something thay can't, the food is practically devoid of nutrients and this has been known since senate document 264. And since then the money people swooped in like buzzards. Been having a pretty good feast in case you hadn't noticed. Now with health care reform they can not only feed on the dead, but the living as well. When I was 25 I wouldn't take health insurance for fucking free. I said straight out that if I can't survive I belong dead.

Nothing has changed. Doctors have never cured any illness I've ever had. I went in last year and they had no fucking idea what was wrong, I cured myself. They fixed my eye, and decades ago they gave me some antibiotics for an ear infection which followed a bad bout with the flu. If something inside my body really goes wrong, I belong dead.

And other misinformation these days ? Try the old days. OK people, who perpetrated the Katyn Forest massacre ? Did Iraq have weapons of mass destruction ? And just what threat is,,,,,,,,, wait, who is it now, Libya ? OK, how are they going to attack us ? Enquiring minds want to know; the bullshit.

Do you understand what I am saying ? YOU CAN'T FUCKING TRUST ANYONE.

Period.

T^T



Tantriqu -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/5/2011 1:18:59 PM)

I agree about the information/disinformation era: kids these days [and now adults] have no instruction in logical thought or dissertation, and place more weight on 'something somebody said' than a basic scientific theorem. Just look at immunization! One greedy British gastroenterologist falsified information about autism to try to get the country to buy his vaccine, and instead started an entire cults of crazies, thereby harming thousands of children, all based on rumour and not fact. And yet now that he has been disgraced, the misinformation still lives on in the internet.
And still most newspapers give more space to astrology than science.
Sad. and scary.



slaveluci -> RE: This misinformation age ? (9/5/2011 2:43:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Conspiracy it is all called, but what is the purpose of all this alternative thought and analysis, why can't the past be left as it is, why seek to dishonour people who died hundreds of years ago.

I don't think it's generally as much about "dishonouring people" as it is trying to present a more balanced and realistic picture of historic people. Here in the US, I went from kindergarten-12th grade and then college reading textbooks full of what I believe was (mostly) lies about historic people (presidents, statesmen, etc). If learning about them is so important it's done in every grade of schooling, shouldn't we at least be sure we're learning CORRECTLY about them and not just some fairy tale? That's kind of the point I take away. I wouldn't call myself a full-fledged conspiracy theorist but I am a skeptic about most of what I'm spoonfed. There's always ulterior motives and agendas and I think we should educate ourselves so as not to fall prey to them.
quote:

What is the reason, for sure there has to be something in people that seeks to disbelieve and there spread the word.

Again, as I wrote above, I don't seek to "disbelieve" as much as to know the FULL truth about the past, current issues, etc. Just go back 50 years in history and take note of what the "official" statement of facts have been about issues and then note what the truth actually was. That's enough to convince me that, in most if not all cases, we're only told what "they" (the powers that be) want us to know, not all of what actually happened...........luci



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