RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival?

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outhere69 -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/6/2011 5:49:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct I'm sorry, but both of you guys are talking about companies that are long gone, along with business models that considered R+D to be part of a companies life blood, rather than a needless expense that can be outsourced. As an example these days- GEs research lab has maybe 125 folks in it- and that's one of the wealthiest corporations out there. HP is on the rocks, as is Lucent and AT+T doesn't do research any more. Oil companies do R+D? Don't make me laugh.... Defense contractors still do some R+D, but they've got the aforementioned structural issues. Sorry, but I'm on the front lines with these companies and I've seen them pull in their R+D when it doesn't deliver results instantly. Big companies don't do spin outs well often, it's not their core business. Like I said- what's lacking are first customers, like Uncle Sam. Sam You've got a good point there. There've been scientists and engineers noting the dearth of pure research nowadays ("blue sky" stuff) but they've had about much effect as a fart in a windstorm.

Termyn8or -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/7/2011 6:48:08 AM)
"Digital's been here since the 1970s at least." Still true though. Sorry for the semi-hijack but intellectual property rights while persued vigorously here don't do us much good. This goes along with my assertion that we need exports. Without exporting we are simply pushing the same pile of money around. Would you invest given that situation ? I'd be quite hesitant. Actually it could work - as long as we don't import anything. Fat chance. There is only so much of a market for jets and bombs. We don't just need markets, we need MASS markets. It seems that the patent issue could be rectified by treaty. They love to write treaties y'know, maybe they could get one right (long shot I know). But then I guess that would mean ceding part of the authority to some international body, another two sided coin. But really, I think the intellectual property issue is a big one because the fact is that we invented most of the shit they sell us now. On a side note, what is surprising is the proportion of US inventors who were first generation immigrants, something that really didn't dawn on me until a few years ago. T^T

DomYngBlk -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/7/2011 8:40:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven The American Chemical Society recently advocated a strategy of giving techies the tools needed to spur technological innovation on the basis that new technologies equate to business and thus job growth. http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_18783382 Comments? I'll go first. I kinda agree with the idea of making business tools available to techies, but am very leery that the focus will be on developing and administering the infrastructure rather than on the health of the businesses produced and the concomitant jobs. And I don't like the idea of assuming that the problem is that prospective entrepreneurs need access to funds to succeed - before making that assumption, we need to know just what ARE the factors preventing more startups, especially since we used to not seem to have this problem - what's changed? Steven, my question back to you would be do you think that it is a lack of innovation that is hurting the economy? Making us lose to other economies in asia? I personally don't think that is it. I think their 5 year plans are better than our quarter to quarter hystronics. As a country they know where they are going. We don't have a clue week to week.

samboct -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/7/2011 10:15:54 AM)
I largely agree with DYB. We still do some of the best innovation in this country- we're just not good at commercializing it. This is a problem of our financial folks, not the people doing the innovating. Seems to me that the "innovation" of moving mfg to China is the problem- and that's not something that a scientist or engineer would suggest. A pox on MBAs! Sam

MileHighM -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/7/2011 3:05:19 PM)
Well this thread could take on new meaning. It looks like innovation is going to get a dark beating soon. As we speak, they are changing the patent laws. All thats left is Barak's signature. It is going to change from first to invent to first to file. This favors big business, and is only going to make it harder for venturing business to raise funds and increase the risk of IP theft. The days of the garage start up may be dead.

Termyn8or -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/7/2011 3:26:41 PM)
"It is going to change from first to invent to first to file." Prior art is gone then ? Fuck, soon small restaurants won't be able to invent a new type of sandwich. McD's will come out with it week later and issue a cease and desist order. BTW, this has already happened in the drug industry. If I remembered the names of the companies involved I'd get some news on it. But yes, big pharma did just that, prevented a small company from continuing to sell a drug that they had invented. It took a court case but probably now that process will be streamlined. Kind like the tent courts issuing foreclosures down in Florida. Just more of the same shit. Orwell missed another one but I just can't find the words right now. I'll get back to you on it. T^T

DarkSteven -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/7/2011 6:28:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk Steven, my question back to you would be do you think that it is a lack of innovation that is hurting the economy? Making us lose to other economies in asia? I personally don't think that is it. I think their 5 year plans are better than our quarter to quarter hystronics. As a country they know where they are going. We don't have a clue week to week. 1. Yes, I do. The standard liberal position is that we need more jobs; and the standard Republican position is that we need more businesses, that the businesses create jobs. Both are wrong. More businesses providing exactly the same goods or services creates healthy economic competition, but simply swaps jobs from one business to another. What we need are more industries. If a new product is created, it will increase consumption, so there will be more dollars fed into the economy. 2. The Asian companies are eating our lunch with cheap labor. In a global economy, they are doing exactly what the GOP advocates - starting new businesses that compete with existing ones. Unfortunately for us, the new companies are overseas and the existing ones are domestic. 3. You bring up a good point - that confidence in the economy, whether justified or not, tends to assuage Wall Street's nerves so they don't close off the spigot. Look at it this way - the standard modus operandi haggles over how to split the pie. New industries enlarge the pie.

MrRodgers -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/7/2011 8:35:55 PM)
Well the positives are obvious but at any given time there is approx. $1 trillion in 'at risk' capital invested in the US with new businesses and product designer/builders. Furthermore, what products that are developed should help China grow...they will be made there.

MrRodgers -> RE: Letting techies innovate - key to economic revival? (9/7/2011 8:39:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk Steven, my question back to you would be do you think that it is a lack of innovation that is hurting the economy? Making us lose to other economies in asia? I personally don't think that is it. I think their 5 year plans are better than our quarter to quarter hystronics. As a country they know where they are going. We don't have a clue week to week. 1. Yes, I do. The standard liberal position is that we need more jobs; and the standard Republican position is that we need more businesses, that the businesses create jobs. Both are wrong. More businesses providing exactly the same goods or services creates healthy economic competition, but simply swaps jobs from one business to another. What we need are more industries. If a new product is created, it will increase consumption, so there will be more dollars fed into the economy. 2. The Asian companies are eating our lunch with cheap labor. In a global economy, they are doing exactly what the GOP advocates - starting new businesses that compete with existing ones. Unfortunately for us, the new companies are overseas and the existing ones are domestic. 3. You bring up a good point - that confidence in the economy, whether justified or not, tends to assuage Wall Street's nerves so they don't close off the spigot. Look at it this way - the standard modus operandi haggles over how to split the pie. New industries enlarge the pie. All true except wall street doesn't invest in start-ups. (entrepreneurs) Wall street makes their investors rich, all to just produce jobs as I just wrote...in China.

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