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RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 2:11:12 AM   
MsMacComb


Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Your post is a perfect example of the EXACT reason why I sometimes come down so hard on and refuse to coddle the "newbies". Yours is the reality of what can happen to someone who has this warm fuzzy fantasy idea of what this lifetyle is....right up until they meet a sadistic someone who doesn't share their warm fantasy view. 
 

Same here. Especially all these nitwits that preach "the domme/dom has absolute control, don't question, don't ask, don't complain". Thats a recipe for disaster.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 2:26:00 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

Pissdoll's post is what drives me crazy with "no limit" slaves. 


Yeah... you think it drives you crazy? I've seen that thread/phrase used here so much here..... Ah forget it.... just drop it.  ; }


 - R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to bandit25)
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RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 3:01:14 AM   
scratchingpost


Posts: 231
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		I have said this many times it is the dominants responsability to kep the emotional and physical well being in the forefront of their mind at ALL times...its also the sub/slaves responsability to know when to safe word...

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be safe and smile
purrrs kitty
(=^.^=)
www.misskittys-scratchingpost.com

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 4:33:18 AM   
Gem


Posts: 100
Joined: 2/11/2004
Status: offline 		Brightest Blessings
 
A huge part of our play is cutting play and other extremes. While I have many scars I have found no adverse long term affects to our play. As to emotional or mental damage ther is none, in fact I would say that I am more emotionally and mentally sound then I was seven years ago.
 
I have long term affects from the jobs I use to do ( bad back from a stint on the amature rodeo ciricut, and 12 years of bartending a honky tonk).
 
I have heard of some spanko's who have some nerve damage from plain old spankings. I guess it is how well your genetic make-up is put together.
 
Blessed Be
Gem

(in reply to CelticDawn)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 4:51:55 AM   
piscess


Posts: 101
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline 		This is a good thread, thank you for beginning it. 
 
I suffer a few scars that will remain with me forever and agree with all that has been said. 
 
The important thing to me about this thread is it makes people think.  Yes, we as submissives MUST research things that will be done to us.  Learn, read, and ask questions before allowing them.  Know the risks before hand, and understand what can be done to your body before saying, DO IT.
 
I enjoy pain so as a result show the scarring of that enjoyment.  I am just glad that the Doms who have given me that pain have known when my body has had enough. 
 
piscess

(in reply to CelticDawn)
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RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 4:57:38 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I went to a party and met some subs/slaves who had been in the lifestyle for a long time, most admitted to being painsluts etc.  I made the comment to my sub that they appeared *seasoned* and he said yes that he'd noticed it too. What I meant by that was they looked haggered, their skin didnt have a healthy look to it at all, their eyes looked rather blank. Now it could be due to medical conditions and have nothing to do with BDSM. But I thought it strange that so many of them appeared that way.

Maybe endorphins, like alot of drugs, take a toil on the body after awhile.

~Lashra

(in reply to CelticDawn)
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RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 5:03:58 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Pissdoll's post is what drives me crazy with "no limit" slaves.  Yes, it's all well and good to allow Master to set your limits...as long as he truly has your best interests at heart.  But, what if he misjudges?  What if there is something in your past that he doesn't know about?  What if? What if? What if? 

What if he's mentally unstable but a smooth talker who can convince you that anything is safe as long as Master says it is? Sorry I am not a believer in no limit slaves, I really think they are setting themselves up to get hurt. Not all people have your best interest in mind, they only care about what they want. Yes I know thats the backbone of a M/s relationship. So becareful who you choose, get to know them damn well as in years before you turn your life  completely over to them. If its worth having, its worth waiting for.

Just my opinion.

~Lashra

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 5:13:57 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Pissdoll's post is what drives me crazy with "no limit" slaves.  Yes, it's all well and good to allow Master to set your limits...as long as he truly has your best interests at heart.  But, what if he misjudges?  What if there is something in your past that he doesn't know about?  What if? What if? What if? 


..I don't have limits in my relationship..(I have plenty of limits elsewhere).......... Knowing yourself, knowing your Master, taking the amount of time it requires to simply get to know someone thoroughly( I'm actually talking years)...are common sense ways to ensure that you have placed yourself in the hands of someone that understands you and themselves.  There's what-if's in any situation, but they can bring you to a complete standstill...... Common sense tells me that laying myself , physically and mentally in the hands of another person meant knowing EXACTLY what that meant.

(in reply to bandit25)
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RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 7:25:02 AM   
pissdoll


Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Pissdoll's post is what drives me crazy with "no limit" slaves.  Yes, it's all well and good to allow Master to set your limits...as long as he truly has your best interests at heart.  But, what if he misjudges?  What if there is something in your past that he doesn't know about?  What if? What if? What if? 

What if he's mentally unstable but a smooth talker who can convince you that anything is safe as long as Master says it is? Sorry I am not a believer in no limit slaves, I really think they are setting themselves up to get hurt. Not all people have your best interest in mind, they only care about what they want. Yes I know thats the backbone of a M/s relationship. So becareful who you choose, get to know them damn well as in years before you turn your life  completely over to them. If its worth having, its worth waiting for.

Just my opinion.

~Lashra


i no longer believe in the term "no limit slave."  it angers me to no end.  the people who use it (and sorry because it's going to piss a number of them off) really have no basis of it in reality.
no limits means no limits.  death is a limit.  if you are a no limit slave, you are saying that you will sit there while your master kills you and not fight or try to get away.
would you really??  if after 10 years, he suddenly developed an amputation fantasy, would you sit there while he hacked your leg off?
any person who would stay there and accept is mentally ill and needs to be locked up.  any person who would not submit to that needs to admit that they are NOT a no limit slave.

(in reply to Lashra)
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RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 8:15:17 AM   
BBBTBW


Posts: 836
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline 		I think the biggest problem here is not separating FANTASY from REALITY.  Sure we all fantasize about what we would like to do and what might be interesting to try, but come on folks...Put some reality into it.  Prolonged extreme use is going to cause issues.  Don't be suprised or angry if you end up having some physical/mental issues afterward. 

I have noticed that my limits as a DOMINANT are pretty soft compared to some of the submissives/slaves I have spoken with.  I refuse to entertain the thought of certain types of bondage and other types of extreme use with slave and will promptly send them on their way.  I trained many years ago as a submissive for 9 months.  I believe it has made me a better DOMINANT in that I have been on the flip side.  I know there are people that don't know how to discern fantasy from reality and for those of us DOMINANTS it is our job to guide them and not take advantage of a willing specimen just because it meets our need.  And REMEMBER submissives and slaves.  Just because someone calls themselves a DOMINANT doesn't automatically mean they are nor do they automatically have your best interest at heart....DON'T jump into a relationship with someone just because your body tells you to.....take some time and MAKE SURE they are who they say they are.....avoid the pitfalls of despair when they come to be known as an abuser under the guise of being a DOMINANT.

Ms Loren

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 10:21:23 AM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticDawn
The question is what long term physical or mental negative side effects of extreme pain/torture/bleeding etc have people suffered during prolonged and frequent play. As in over years or months, I have noticed that while many people talk about this no one will talk about long term potential problems may occur.


I can speak to this.

Because of my enjoyment of cutting and blood play and the mistakes I made in doing so when I was young, ill-informed, ignorant, and inexperienced, I am now, and will always be, anemic. I also have physical scars that will never go away. I have been in hypovelemic shock twice and received a few blood transfusions. All before I was even at the age of majority. I count myself lucky as hell that I didn't contract any diseases 15 & 20 years ago. There but for the grace of a higher power go I. Others are not so fortunate.

To this day I will not live by the mantra of SSC, and I still adore edge play, cutting, scarification, and other bloody bod-mod play, but I have learned over many years and countless seminars and classes, how to go about doing my type of play more appropriately. What I do is not "safe", but I have learned ways to make it "safer" and less risky. Education is essential in eliminating (or at least reducing) health and safety risks. Huge kudos to those who take their time, effort, money, and skill to teach others. Be it teaching sterilization, barriers to pathogens, proper use of impact toys, cleaning up play stations, first aid, CPR, whatever. These people offer such valuable information to others who do WIITWD. I simply can't speak highly enough of health and safety seminars, demos, workshops, articles, books, etc...

If I go to an event, and there's a health and safety workshop offered, I do my best to sign up for it, and encourage others to do the same. Even if it's information I already know, a refresher course never hurts. I hope I *never* get to the point where I think I know all there is to know on the subject. I also took the time to find a kink-friendly physician, which has been a priceless addition to my life. When the occassion arises that I have to work with a medical practitioner who is not kink-aware, I go to the measure of giving him/her and the office staff a copy of a few good lifestyle books (Moser's "Healthcare without shame" being one of such.)

Just like any "risky" activity we engage in during life (sky-diving, rock climbing, drag racing, casual sex, etc...) BDSM activities have precautionary measures we can take to help protect us from (or help us minimize) potential harm. It's just a matter of learning those measures and insisting on practicing them each and every time. If I had known at 10, 11, and 12 years old what I do now about bloodplay, I wouldn't be popping an iron pill every morning.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to CelticDawn)
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RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 11:00:34 AM   
Reflectivesoul


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline 		Excellent thread, a must read for A/all, I believe.
 
One thing I havent seen here though is the long term effects from anal and vaginal fisting. So I'm going to throw my 2 cents in on that.
 
From a medical standpoint the long term effects from fisting anally can be loss of bowel control. Now this would happen only after many many years of this kind of play and from the usage of hands or extremely large toys on a consistent basis. After extended periods of play the muscles become relaxed and easier accepting of larger toys or hands, thus lessening the control of the muscle tissue itsself. This also happens with Vaginal fisting with the exception that its the bladder that loses some of its control thus causing urinary incontinence.

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 1:40:08 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pissdoll

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Pissdoll's post is what drives me crazy with "no limit" slaves.  Yes, it's all well and good to allow Master to set your limits...as long as he truly has your best interests at heart.  But, what if he misjudges?  What if there is something in your past that he doesn't know about?  What if? What if? What if? 

What if he's mentally unstable but a smooth talker who can convince you that anything is safe as long as Master says it is? Sorry I am not a believer in no limit slaves, I really think they are setting themselves up to get hurt. Not all people have your best interest in mind, they only care about what they want. Yes I know thats the backbone of a M/s relationship. So becareful who you choose, get to know them damn well as in years before you turn your life  completely over to them. If its worth having, its worth waiting for.

Just my opinion.

~Lashra


i no longer believe in the term "no limit slave."  it angers me to no end.  the people who use it (and sorry because it's going to piss a number of them off) really have no basis of it in reality.
no limits means no limits.  death is a limit.  if you are a no limit slave, you are saying that you will sit there while your master kills you and not fight or try to get away.
would you really??  if after 10 years, he suddenly developed an amputation fantasy, would you sit there while he hacked your leg off?
any person who would stay there and accept is mentally ill and needs to be locked up.  any person who would not submit to that needs to admit that they are NOT a no limit slave.



I am well aware of the stir that using the term *no limits slave* causes and I would never describe myself in that way. I'm not a *no limits slave* and actually, without my Master, I wouldn't be a slave at all.

I do, however, have no limits of my own *inside my relationship*, which is rather different.  I don't need or desire them *inside my relationship* and I am very realistic about what it entails  in these circumstances.

agirl

Edited due to grotty typo....lol


< Message edited by agirl -- 5/22/2006 1:41:17 PM >

(in reply to pissdoll)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 2:39:47 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pissdoll

i no longer believe in the term "no limit slave."  it angers me to no end.  the people who use it (and sorry because it's going to piss a number of them off) really have no basis of it in reality. 
no limits means no limits.  death is a limit.  if you are a no limit slave, you are saying that you will sit there while your master kills you and not fight or try to get away.
would you really??  if after 10 years, he suddenly developed an amputation fantasy, would you sit there while he hacked your leg off?
any person who would stay there and accept is mentally ill and needs to be locked up.  any person who would not submit to that needs to admit that they are NOT a no limit slave.



ahhhhhhhh...I knew there was a reason I liked you!  Of course people get all wrapped up in the 'romance' of  NO LIMITS.  Doesn't it sound lovely to say you trust someone SO MUCH, you'd let them do ANYTHING to you?  Sheeshhhhh.  Like you, most people who consider themselves slaves, walk away from an abusive 'Owner'.  So...how then, can we say they never had limits?  They LEFT!!!

Of course, leaving is a GOOD THING...but...it's just interesting to me how many have changed Masters more than once...and yet continue to say they have 'no limits'.  <shakes head>  I believe they do...and when they reach them, they leave.

I play with a good friend who insists he only plays with those who understand he doesn't use safe words.  Okay...he may be a little quirky, but I go along with it because I trust him so well.  I never have to use safe words because he PAYS ATTENTION!  Still, I know full well if I got into some kind of trouble and said 'Red'...he'd quit in a heartbeat!  <grinz> ...but he contends we play without safewords.   

Thank you all for a wonderful thread...


(in reply to pissdoll)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 3:50:49 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		great post Celeste.... I concur with it... thanks for saving my fingers from typing so much.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 7:42:36 PM   
CelticDawn


Posts: 21
Joined: 4/1/2006
Status: offline 		First of all I wish to thank EVERYONE that posted in this thread. In many ways it has restored my faith in the community. As a Master I take my duties for the safety of my slave very seriously, but it seemed for along time that whenever I brought this subject up in other forums I was hit with two basic replies:

1) Are you crazy indulge her desires!

2) You are just trying to make us look bad.

I do wish to clarify if there were any misunderstandings on a couple of things. Her cutting was something that occured due to multiple traumatic experiences in her life, I never will forget our first visit together when we were driving around town and her casually stating "That was the bridge I lived under for a few days after my Mom tried to kill me." I do NOT consider cutting a form of play. What made me bring this thread up is that I see many people involved in bdsm activities that are as bad as cutting or worse.

When we met she thought she had it under control, but as said in earlier post what worked best for us treating it as a recovering alcoholic. Happily it has been so long since she has cut we have lost track of days! Also while I do like to play with a knife I have never desired nor do desire to cut. We also do not indulge in various plays that might trigger it.

I also agree way to many people enter into this life for the wrong reasons, and have sadly seen some cutters come into this life so their cutting would be accepted. What scared me were the people falling over themselves doms/subs telling them it was okay it just showed thier "strength/love/dedication" to their dom/dommes.

We do not regard it as a sacrafice because of our love for each other and just praise our different God or Gods/Goddesses in her case that we have each other. It is making her training as a Mistress interesting as she is seeing what she desires with a potential slave comes into being.

Also thank-you, thank-you, thankyou to ravn, pissdoll, propretrix (please forgive if spelling error occurs) for telling their stories I so agree that if ANYONE knows any newbies have them read this thread for educational purposes.

I look forward to reading what else occurs on this thread, also anybody that wishes to chat directly feel free to email us.

Last note WHAT REALLY TICKS ME OFF is this, last I heard if you are the real thing and not just an abusive user.....if you have a "no limits" slave that means you have a "NO LIMITS RESPONSIBILTY" THATS 100% THE PHYSICAL AND MENTAL WELL BEING OF YOUR SLAVE NO EXCEPTIONS!

Do us and anyone else a favor, if you dont believe this get out of this life and get some help!

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/22/2006 11:34:32 PM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline 		"without giving up too much information about myself i am deaf in one ear (with hearing loss in the one that still works) and have had my jaw repaired from multiple fractures due to long term "extreme play" or torture.

you're correct in saying that most people in bdsm don't want to discuss it.  they want to call it something else or sweep it under the rug or say that any form of "harm" is seperate from what bdsm is.

it's really too bad.  the young people who NEED to see these threads will never see them.  the girl who logs onto this site wondering if her Master has gone too far, the girl who is desperately clinging to the fact that no limit slave means no limit, even though in the back of her head she KNOWS she is being harmed and wonders how far it will go, the girl who is never going to come out and ASK any of us could really benefit from this thread playing out.

in my case, life goes on.  i was not disfigured from my damage, although it has taken a couple of years, several surgeries and thousands of dollars to be able to open my mouth (almost) completely again.  i haven't looked into a hearing aid as of yet."

and I haven't gone nearly as far with my slave (don't want to) but AMEN (no religious disrespect intended).

D (owner of j).

_____________________________

Possibly.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/23/2006 5:54:18 AM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		Being an ethical sociopath, I consider fully informed consent the E-ticket of life.  If you know the risks, you lose the right to complain about any outcome defined as "worst case" BEFORE you began.
I stress the before, because if I'm half as good as I would like to delude myself that I am, then at some point or at several points during our scene or relationship, you will become far enough displaced from our mundane objective reality that you would agree to anything at all, as long as feeling "X" doesn't stop.
I consider any who make the claim they renegotiated anything once Ds interaction begins, to be a fraud and a danger. 

But I do a great many things that if repeated often over years would cause the kinds of physical damage that in years past resulted from fourteen hours a day in a factory, or trying to plow a straight line with a three legged horse in kansas before tractors.
Football players are often near cripples at 35. 
Commercial fishermen are prone to losing little pieces here and there as miles of line and millions of very sharp hooks fly past them on a routine trip.
How many heavyweight boxers have you ever seen who weren't suffering from a few too many blows to the head?
Any rock climber will tell you that a safety rope save, sure beats falling all the way to the ground, but often it doesn't do so by a very large margin.
I've got several large patches of skin on different parts of my body that have suffered loss of feeling and reduced blood flow due to abrasion.  But that was abrasion from thinking that being under 20 made me asphalt proof during motorcycle crashes.  But how different would the end result be if they where from any other activity I understood the risks involved, yet participated in?
I'm responsible for  multiple occurances of damage that was extensive, permant and intentional with a former partner.   But knowing the likely effects in advance, my wife got pregnant with our kids  anyway.

I am willing to supress the desire to sanction others because I don't approve of anything they desire to do, if entered into willingly and with fully informed consent.
If injury results from misrepresentation, conceilment, or correcion to compell participation.. .  .Hang em.   Seems simple and straigtforward to me.

(in reply to Wolfie648)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/23/2006 4:16:57 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		my aunts dog scratched me with her sharp claws one bright red scratch and I have a scar from it. Scaring can happen very easily in some people
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


knife play - the deeper you go, the more chance you have of scarring. I don't carry any permanent scars from knife play...

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Long Term Affects of Extreme Play - 5/23/2006 7:39:10 PM   
CelticDawn


Posts: 21
Joined: 4/1/2006
Status: offline 		This is a post from the both of us. Thanks to all that have not only commented again but wrote us personal emails thanking us for this thread. LOL We did not know that another thread apparently spread off this one.

Another thought is this, just because one is able to do something or someone asks them to do something does not mean it SHOULD BE DONE. We will not comment on types of play that should be permissable or not permissable or even the good old SSC line. What we do say is this, if the bdsm life is actually a healthy way of life mentally and physically then there are mutual responsibilities that are involved, and the long term effects of anything must be examined before anything is decided upon.

If on the other hand if this life is NOT healthy mentally or physically you might as well lock us all up!

As for the football point that was brought up, that is whole nother line of thought and where the health of the atheletes are tend to be ignored at all levels of football and more. Last thought on that from here.

I do want to say something specific on ravn's punishment for back talking. While punishment must ALWAYS be what the sub slave hates it must also have two balancing factors:

1) It is approbriate for the infraction.............back talking was NOT worth what she went through.

2) It is designed to correct a bad behavior and guide to a proper behavior.

Frankly I (Dylan) find punishment distasteful and makes me wonder what I have done wrong in the slaves training. (Though I punish when needed.) If a sub/slave has been properly trained and guided then just the words "You shamed me" should devestate the sub/slave more then anything else I can do, in which case punishment is the sub/slaves means of redemption.

I SELDOM have to punish Rea, the last time was over a year ago and even then never needed pain to accomplish what I needed done. I have now been in this life for 15 years with the first five years being trained as a Master. In all that time I have only used pain to punish three times, as I learned more later I realized that even on those three times I could have done MORE effective punishment with out the pain aspect if I would have just thought more clearly.

BTW We never "play punish" either, if someone needs to be tied up, suspended, caned, whipped etc lol thats just fun!

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)
Profile   Post #: 40
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