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Think - 9/5/2011 3:38:36 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Someone said (you know whoi you are) :

"I agree about the information/disinformation era: kids these days [and now adults] have no instruction in logical thought or dissertation, and place more weight on 'something somebody said' than a basic scientific theorem. "

Instruction in logical thought. Those words are quite sticky, to say the least.

I'm sorry to have been thinking for the last fifty years while others took care of their own business but those words stick like a motherfucker. Instruction in logical thought. The first thing that comes to mind is just how would someone instruct another, a child or student, in logical thought ? I mean there are curricula you can buy to teach someone how to speak Spanish, use chopsticks (with illustrations of course) or to built a crystal radio set.

But this logical thought, what could you possibly write about it to form a textbook of sorts ? What would you write ? "Ummm, when the dude says this then you say that". When the dude says this you think something else. Doesn't sound too practical does it ?

The fact is you have to think on your feet. Like a fight almost. It doesn't have to be an adversary situation or anything like that, arguments don't need to be violent or end badly with fuckyous ending the conversation. At least not in my family.

Now all of you who have read me know that I am different, very much so. I am starting to explore why. And really typoing this is bringing it out so I don't know exactly where this is going.

We were not taught respect. It is so hard to explain. Other kids got smacked for talking back and shit, told "respect your elders". Not us. It's so hard to explain, our elders earned our respect, and did without it for IMO too long. We argued, we "talked back", and "sassed". They argued back, they made their point. Sometimes we were a bit too ingnorant at the time to get it, the fact that they were right, but they ruled the rost and we were safe from our own idiocy for now, until we actually did figure it out.

But one thing I remember that differs in my childhood than others, is that they didn't talk baby talk to me. They spoke to me as if I was grown up, even when I was young. And they didn't watch their language. My paternal Grandmother was the foulmouth of the county, and we fucking loved her. If Hanners woulda met her they would probably have a TV show, on cable of course. But us kids knew that we were not allowed to use those words, they were adult words. Something like that.

But we argued, and that is the difference I think. How the fuck do you teach critical thinking ? How can you teach someone to argue, and arguing even if it is in your own mind, is what critical thinking is all about. Is it not ?

So you start when the little MF learns to talk. "I think this and I think that" and of course they are going to be wrong on something. Then you say "Well what about when _______________".

That's the only way I can think of. Can it be done later in life ? I don't know, perhaps it can but I'd bet real money that it is alot harder.

And there's one thing I've noticed, now that I have stepped back and seen things..... Parents who demanded respect never got it.

In fact now that I think of it, anyone who demanded respect never got it.

T^T
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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 4:42:47 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Man, that is way too long to read. Could you condense it down into one line for me?

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 4:57:59 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		bit too complicated for you?

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 5:04:00 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Instruction in logical thought. The first thing that comes to mind is just how would someone instruct another, a child or student, in logical thought ? I mean there are curricula you can buy to teach someone how to speak Spanish, use chopsticks (with illustrations of course) or to built a crystal radio set.


Virtually every college and jr. college in this country teaches classes in logic.

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 5:30:56 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Kids need to know there is an adult around.  Sometimes I am THE adult of the whole block- and only when that is noticed do the real parents step up. 

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 5:33:37 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		that must be a pretty scary block

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 5:34:24 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

bit too complicated for you?


No, my guess is that he's seen the OP's postings before and can't be bothered to wade through all of the extraneous "stuff" to get to the essence of the post. :)

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 5:35:31 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The un-watched kids come from down the street.   The parents most likely are druggies.    

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 5:35:35 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		fair point
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

bit too complicated for you?


No, my guess is that he's seen the OP's postings before and can't be bothered to wade through all of the extraneous "stuff" to get to the essence of the post. :)



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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 6:15:33 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Elementary and high school were rote learning for me. In college, however, I learned how to think and to analyze. That is what a liberal college education is supposed to do. Philosophy helped me to think (I took philosophy of religion thinking I'd find some answers, dumb me, there are no answers). World religions did it for me (most religions have similar themes, but most Christians don't accept that). Integrated western civilization did it for me perhaps the most, partly because the professor was more an "overview" type of person who didn't test us on the rote stuff of "the Hundred Years War took place during what years?" Instead, she tested us on what was happening within society that led up to the Hundred Years War and how society changed afterward.

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 6:58:56 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I'm sorry to have been thinking for the last fifty years while others took care of their own business but those words stick like a motherfucker. Instruction in logical thought. The first thing that comes to mind is just how would someone instruct another, a child or student, in logical thought ? I mean there are curricula you can buy to teach someone how to speak Spanish, use chopsticks (with illustrations of course) or to built a crystal radio set.

But this logical thought, what could you possibly write about it to form a textbook of sorts ? What would you write ? "Ummm, when the dude says this then you say that". When the dude says this you think something else. Doesn't sound too practical does it ?

The fact is you have to think on your feet. Like a fight almost. It doesn't have to be an adversary situation or anything like that, arguments don't need to be violent or end badly with fuckyous ending the conversation. At least not in my family. [...]

That's the only way I can think of. Can it be done later in life ? I don't know, perhaps it can but I'd bet real money that it is alot harder.

Yes of course there are many textbooks in logic. lol I had one at university although I confess not having read more than was stricty necessary as it makes for dry reading.

They have been teaching critical thought at universities since their inception in the middle ages. A PhD is called a doctor of philosophy for a reason.

Termy you're not a paragon of rationality! You always make arguments personal, and never seriously argue in the first place. You fire your opinions at others, and end with a lot of bluster and jive about guns, the police and your TV repairman skills. Its kinda sad you have forgotten the lessons of your family if they truly taught you as you assert that they did.

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 7:12:59 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I'm sorry to have been thinking for the last fifty years while others took care of their own business but those words stick like a motherfucker. Instruction in logical thought. The first thing that comes to mind is just how would someone instruct another, a child or student, in logical thought ? I mean there are curricula you can buy to teach someone how to speak Spanish, use chopsticks (with illustrations of course) or to built a crystal radio set.

But this logical thought, what could you possibly write about it to form a textbook of sorts ? What would you write ? "Ummm, when the dude says this then you say that". When the dude says this you think something else. Doesn't sound too practical does it ?

The fact is you have to think on your feet. Like a fight almost. It doesn't have to be an adversary situation or anything like that, arguments don't need to be violent or end badly with fuckyous ending the conversation. At least not in my family. [...]

That's the only way I can think of. Can it be done later in life ? I don't know, perhaps it can but I'd bet real money that it is alot harder.

Yes of course there are many textbooks in logic. lol I had one at university although I confess not having read more than was stricty necessary as it makes for dry reading.

They have been teaching critical thought at universities since their inception in the middle ages. A PhD is called a doctor of philosophy for a reason.

Termy you're not a paragon of rationality! You always make arguments personal, and never seriously argue in the first place. You fire your opinions at others, and end with a lot of bluster and jive about guns, the police and your TV repairman skills. Its kinda sad you have forgotten the lessons of your family if they truly taught you as you assert that they did.


WRONG

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 7:35:34 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

bit too complicated for you?


Comprehension skills going?  I said "too long" not too complicated

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 7:40:11 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I'm sorry to have been thinking for the last fifty years while others took care of their own business but those words stick like a motherfucker. Instruction in logical thought. The first thing that comes to mind is just how would someone instruct another, a child or student, in logical thought ? I mean there are curricula you can buy to teach someone how to speak Spanish, use chopsticks (with illustrations of course) or to built a crystal radio set.

But this logical thought, what could you possibly write about it to form a textbook of sorts ? What would you write ? "Ummm, when the dude says this then you say that". When the dude says this you think something else. Doesn't sound too practical does it ?

The fact is you have to think on your feet. Like a fight almost. It doesn't have to be an adversary situation or anything like that, arguments don't need to be violent or end badly with fuckyous ending the conversation. At least not in my family. [...]

That's the only way I can think of. Can it be done later in life ? I don't know, perhaps it can but I'd bet real money that it is alot harder.

Yes of course there are many textbooks in logic. lol I had one at university although I confess not having read more than was stricty necessary as it makes for dry reading.

They have been teaching critical thought at universities since their inception in the middle ages. A PhD is called a doctor of philosophy for a reason.

Termy you're not a paragon of rationality! You always make arguments personal, and never seriously argue in the first place. You fire your opinions at others, and end with a lot of bluster and jive about guns, the police and your TV repairman skills. Its kinda sad you have forgotten the lessons of your family if they truly taught you as you assert that they did.


WRONG

I just told PA he needs to justify himself on another thread but he just keeps ocming out with "Wrong". I reckon a few lessons in logic wouldn't go astray here either. lol

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 8:20:16 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		UFR

"Could you condense it down into one line for me? "

Yes : It is easier to be ignorant, that's why so many people are.



"Virtually every college and jr. college in this country teaches classes in logic."
 
Let's hope that grant money comes in !



"Kids need to know there is an adult around.  Sometimes I am THE adult of the whole block- and only when that is noticed do the real parents step up."

It's that fucking bad ? Sounds like that article I put up links to, about the behavioral sink. The silka deer and the mice, remember ? Or didn't you read it ? Oy, why do I bother ?????????????????????????????????????



"That is what a liberal college education is supposed to do."

No, that is what your family is supposed to do.



"Termy you're not a paragon of rationality!"

No, I am not. You can sit in that chair if you like. That will gain you as much respect as you demand.

I am not always right, by any means. However I find it rare that anyone else on this board ever admits that. Oh yes it has happened, but usually only on matters such as data, statistics and so forth, never on idealogy or anything that really merits discussion. People remain firm and I really can't find anything wrong with that because if one changes his opinion easily he will be deemed as "wishy-washy", and rightly so.

I did not gain my opinions last night and neither did anyone else. And you know what, maybe it ain't broken. You are abrasive, I got rought edges. Some other day I am abrasive and you have rough edges. This can work.

What we have to do is to get this discussion thing done withoiut being each others' nemeses. There are things worth killing over on this planet but those are simply not things which have been brought up for discussion.

You'll notice my absence in the really partisan threads for example. Look at who else is absent in those threads, that may be an indication of IQ or something, like the sense to know that it is all a show. And when I talk class war, well, I have alot more on that. Maybe now's the time.

The really wealthy don't give a fuck. They are not really playing the game much these days. They came in for WW1 and 2 but since Korea they pretty much have been taking a day off. They are letting the little league play. When I talk about the class war, which it is, I am not talking about league one and five here, it's like two and four are duking it out. The Masters of the game are just sitting back and biding their time. Class two and four are battling now and that is what happened to the economy. You understand the REAL upper class is totally insulated from all this shit.

Now I'm sure that part of the goal is to eliminate alot of people, especially lower class, those of us who, in their eyes, should never have been born. You see I have figured out the goals of alot of things, by figuring out the end. Remember the end justifies the means, what we witness are the means. These ends do not serve the upper crust, only the lower crust. (I do believe I may have coined something here). They really don't have to do anything because of the competitive nature of Man, we will destroy each other as they watch in bliss. Why would they care ? They have enough money to have 100 children and make sure they all never have to work for three generations. The lower crust need to fight to stay "on top".

And it's not enough. But is it ? The really rich do not make all that much noise. No taxes, when you got billions in the bank why do you need to make money ? Income tax is on INCOME. If I had a million bucks right now I wouldn't bother to work, would you ? Fuck no. What would I need income for ? See how that works ? And if this money is gettable by the heirs there is no reason to fear inheritance taxes either. Had a joint account with the olman, cleaned it out when he died. Also cleaned out the safe. No record. No tax. It works really good !

So there is the Bourgeoisie and the proletariat, and we are ALL proletarians. And we fight amongst ourselves all the time. They sit back and laugh at the bombs dropping, just like me. I don't care about those people and hopefully they die without much suffering. I mean I'm not a fucking animal that will eat you alive (ummmmm, comments on that some other time). A lion or tiger will.

In the next couple of months I have alot of decisions to make. I might become the predator, I might not. Time will tell.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 9/5/2011 8:29:05 PM >

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 8:45:50 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
"Kids need to know there is an adult around.  Sometimes I am THE adult of the whole block- and only when that is noticed do the real parents step up."

I bet they do: "son come away from the strange man."

quote:


"Termy you're not a paragon of rationality!"

No, I am not. You can sit in that chair if you like. That will gain you as much respect as you demand.

Respect can only come naturally. I doubt many people actually respect others on the board anyway.

quote:


I am not always right, by any means. However I find it rare that anyone else on this board ever admits that. Oh yes it has happened, but usually only on matters such as data, statistics and so forth, never on idealogy or anyhting that really merits discussion. People remain firm and I really can't find anything wrong with that because if one chenges his opinion easily he will be deemed as "wishy-washy", and rightly so.

A more accurate sentiment would be "I am not always wrong". If you had said that instead of your faux modesty after the raging displays of ego then I might have changed my mind about you. Bollox, if someone changes their mind they should be seen as honest. If anyone here has a ridgid ideology it is you bud so the words pot and kettle come to mind.

quote:


I did not gain my opinions last night and neither did anyone else. And you know what, maybe it ain't broken. You are abrasive, I got rought edges. Some other day I am abrasive and you have rough edges. This can work.

Ok then, fuck you: is that abrasive enough to work for you?

quote:


What we have to do is to get this discussion thing done withoiut being each others' nemeses. There are things worth killing over on this planet but those are simply not things which have been brought up for discussion.

I won't always be unpleasant because others will tire of it as much as myself but from time to time I will hunt you down. Unhappy? Get the fuck used to it cause it'll surely happen.

quote:


Now I'm sure that part of the goal is to eliminate alot of people, especially lower class, those of us who, in their eyes, should never have been born. You see I have figured out the goals of alot of things, by figuring out the end. Remember the end justofies the means, what we witness are the means. These ends do not serve the upper crust, only the lower crust. (I do believe I may have coined something here). They really don't have to do anything because iof the competitive nature of Man, we will destroy each other as they watch in bliss. Why would they care ? They have enough money to have 100 children and make sure they all never have to work for three generations.

Blah blah blah, more bullshit but the term "lower crust" is pretty good. Never let it be said I don't compliment my fellow members of this forum.

quote:


In the next couple of months I have alot of decisions to make. I might become the predator, I might not. Time will tell.

Its important for a predator to have some decent bite. You should be asking yourself if you have it... and don't say yes without thinking first!

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 9:37:48 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

fuck you... I will hunt you down.

I hope you get your goat back.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/5/2011 9:41:04 PM >

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 9:41:16 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
If anyone here has a ridgid ideology it is you bud...

Coming from you, that's quite funny!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
fuck you... I will hunt you down.

Good luck. I hope you get your goat back.

Actually for the most part I'm just fucking with Termy using the sort of language he uses but I wouldn't expect a simple sort of person to get that, especially one who can't resist a cheap shot.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 9/5/2011 9:42:48 PM >

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 9:49:43 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

Actually for the most part I'm just fucking with Termy using the sort of language he uses but I wouldn't expect a simple sort of person to get that, especially one who can't resist a cheap shot.

I'm not sure which of the comments you considered a cheap shot, but I did edit out the first one before your post hit. On reflection, it seemed just too obvious to be worthy of mention.

For that matter, I think it's also obvious that you're missing a goat. But sometimes I indulge myself.

K.

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RE: Think - 9/5/2011 10:03:46 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
Actually for the most part I'm just fucking with Termy using the sort of language he uses but I wouldn't expect a simple sort of person to get that, especially one who can't resist a cheap shot.

I'm not sure which of the comments you considered a cheap shot, but I did edit out the first one before your post hit. On reflection, it seemed just too obvious to be worthy of mention.

Both comments bud, it was the sum total of your post that I referred to in the singular but again for a simple chap like yourself I suppose that might not be especially obvious.

quote:


On reflection, it seemed just too obvious to be worthy of mention.

Obvious in your little mind perhaps but why bother with the edit.

My point about Termy being rigid is perfectly fair so its interesting that the main point of your criticism is accusing me of being a rigid ideologue. Truth is you only take issue with me over Israel. What's really going on in your little mind was "Anax is a meanie since he doesn't hate Israel". You're a sad case because you can't tolerate a difference of opinion. Isn't that it? Time for once to actually tell the truth and shame the devil!

quote:


For that matter, I think it's also obvious that you're missing a goat. But sometimes I indulge myself.

I don't get the reference but I'll be happy to indulge your childishness for the moment...

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 9/5/2011 10:19:30 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
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