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RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/13/2011 7:17:14 AM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Looks like Geithner  is headed to the EU -Geithner heads to Europe as debt fears mount


quote:

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner makes a one-day trip to Poland this week for an unprecedented meeting with euro zone finance ministers as growing fears of a potential Greek debt default rip into Europe's banking sector.


Not that they need his sage advice.

quote:

The storm on Monday forced SocGen, the hardest-hit French lender in recent weeks, to announce further drastic measures it denied only last week were under consideration, speeding up asset disposals and deepening cost cuts to free up 4 billion euros in fresh capital.

The bank's market value has shrunk from 110 billion euros in mid-2007 to just 12 billion on Monday. The bank's chief executive said there were no discussions regarding possible state intervention.





(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/13/2011 7:59:09 AM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
The bail-outs are loans so the German and other European institutions involved should get big returns, especially at the interest rates being charged. Greece is a basket case and shouldn't have been allowed to continue in Europe as it has

Yeah...should  that should is not something which sounds likely to me, at least not when I see Greeks reaction and hear according to the news that they still have countless people aged 110+ where their relatives still get paid their pension cause nobody checks if they truly are alive...somehow I think they can't really afford to waste their money like that in their current situation...and yes, Greece shouldn't been in there, when they gave wrong figures to be able to get in, in the first place...

Very true. The reaction of the left in Europe to the crisis was disappointing. It was just more of the same: "no cuts, spend more" and "I told you so" whilst a lot of politicians like in Greece don't seem to have the political will to get their economy in order. The reality is either austerity or bust. We can't spend our way out of this one except into an earlier grave.
quote:


Personally I really don't care much about the euro and would not mind if it would go back to how it used to be...as I simply can't see that it can be worse financially if we would stop that europe shit, (whatever reports I read about how the stuff which is being sold would get too expensive to other countries for the first while and so impact on the economy) when such sums get paid out to so many countries...but then...I was never keen on letting go the DM in the first place...

Well...with Madam Merkel it will stay as it is...we will see what happens in the future...

I think there are three options with the Euro: greater integration, a soft planned exit during better economic times or a hard exit which would be disasterous and prob bring about a crippling world recession!! I doubt there is an appetite for greater integration after this economic disaster so think a soft exit is perhaps the best option after weathering the storm.

I didn't like the Euro after the bulky Irish pound but got used to it. Everything went up in price with the Euro! lol I think the concept of some type of European union makes sense as a loose economic block, instead of existing as relatively modest countries but the drive for integration became self-sustaining by making this infrastructure of Europe too distinct from national governance. There was never a huge appetite for greater integration from the 1990's even with the populace in countries like France that were seen as the big hitters in the EEC. The Euro currency brought integration too far but not far enough as this crisis indicates so I think the EU needs to be rolled back to what it was say in the early 90's.

Very well said

I was surprised now when on friday or saturday it was to read that finally some start to consider it an option to stop wasting money into Greece...and thought "at last"...though, lets wait and see what the outcome will be...

On wednesday or thursday I stumbled accidentially into such a politician debate on tv where one of them criticised quite rightly that they take months and years to debate if they give 5 euro more for the people on benefits but then chuck out millions and more overnight to greece...

Anyhow...we will see how that mess continues...

Yes it does seem that some politicians in Europe are speaking more openly about Greece defaulting on its loans and potentially withdrawing from the EU. Germany is at the forefront of insisting Greece takes its debts more seriously. It looks as if it won't at this late stage. The thing is that the markets keep tumbling with every scare, small or large. The question is whether severe action is taken to stop these huge losses by cutting Greece out now thereby stopping the cancer spreading more or if the operation will actually compromise the EU to such an extent that it could destroy it and trigger a terrible world recession. Its a difficult one to answer for sure. BTW thanks for the positive feedback!

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/13/2011 9:34:58 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Looks like Geithner  is headed to the EU -Geithner heads to Europe as debt fears mount


quote:

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner makes a one-day trip to Poland this week for an unprecedented meeting with euro zone finance ministers as growing fears of a potential Greek debt default rip into Europe's banking sector.


Not that they need his sage advice.





They do need his sage advice.

As long as they do the opposite.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/14/2011 7:20:47 AM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
From the "No need to panic" department:

quote:

Geithner: Economy In "An Early Stage" Of Crisis

Jim Cramer, CNBC host: "Now let's talk about the fact that you said the economy is weak. You put out a jobs plan. The New York Times today basically gives its obituary. 'Tax plan for jobs bill.' Familiar ring. Meaning the GOP will not back this. Is this dead on arrival?"



Tim Geithner, U.S. Secretary of Treasury: "Absolutely not. I think that there's no reason now for the Congress of the United States not to act to help strengthen growth in the near term. It's the conservative, prudent, responsible thing to do. You can think of it as protection against Europe."



Cramer: "Okay."



Geithner: "You can think of it as insurance against weaker growth going forward. And you got to think about the alternatives. If Congress or Washington is incapable of acting, then policy will be damaging to growth because what you'll have is a deeper, steeper contraction in fiscal support than is prudent for an economy at this early stage of the crisis given the shocks we face. You know, life is about choices. Life is about alternatives."

Full article here



Dont be alarmed, I am sure his statement just lacks the proper nuance...


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/14/2011 2:22:59 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials



AFP - The eurozone crisis could wreck the European Union, top EU officials warned on Wednesday as the leaders of Germany and France held talks with Greece to avoid a default and widespread chaos.

The pressure rose on all fronts with United States again expressing great concern, with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner saying European states "now recognise they are going to have to do more" to resolve to the crisis.

Highlighting the threat to the global economy, Geithner is to exceptionally attend talks between European Union finance ministers and central bankers in Poland on Friday.


Full article here



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/14/2011 2:26:09 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		and to think this was all the doings of Frank and Todd, not the greedy money pigs gone wild, in a global milieu.



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(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/14/2011 7:09:19 PM   
EternalHoH


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Joined: 5/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

and to think this was all the doings of Frank and Todd, not the greedy money pigs gone wild, in a global milieu.




LOL,

It is rather funny watching Sanity wake up all Rip Van Winkle like, isn't it?



(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/14/2011 7:10:46 PM   
EternalHoH


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Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


They do need his sage advice.

As long as they do the opposite.




Such wonderful prose from a financial parasite that is part of the problem, and not a part of the solution.



(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/15/2011 2:40:08 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Looks like the scheme the Obama treasury minion is taking to the Fourth Reich is to ape the US bailout scheme -

quote:

Geithner will hold talks with EU ministers in Poland on Friday and will propose that the EFSF, the 440 billion euro fund set up in May 2010, be used in a similar way to an emergency fund created by the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve in 2008 to handle the subprime crisis, sources said

."Geithner will probably insist on the importance of leverage to have more funds to ringfence the big Europeans, Italy and Spain, and to find a solution for Greece," one EU official told Reuters ahead of the meeting in Wroclaw, Poland.

The U.S. emergency fund served to support U.S. banks in the 2007/8 crisis. Responding to signs of similar stress rising in Europe now, the big five central banks agreed on Thursday to reintroduce three-month dollar liquidity operations in the fourth quarter.


TARP On with your bad Azzes.


And use the US dollar to do it too -

quote:

Five central banks acted Thursday to shore up confidence in Europe's financial system by giving its banks far greater access to U.S. dollars.

The move buys time for banks that hold large amounts of debt issued by Greece and other financially troubled European countries. Some of these banks have had trouble paying for daily operations because other banks have refused to lend to them any more.

Under Thursday's action, the banks can borrow unlimited dollars for three months, up from the current one-week limit.


Dollar access no long-term fix for Europe's crisis
quote:

Under the program, the Fed provides dollars requested by the ECB. The ECB distributes that money to commercial banks in Europe. There's no cap on the dollars the Fed can provide. The Fed will receive euros to hold in return for the dollars and will get interest payments on the dollars it provides the ECB.


The Fed's exposure will be to the ECB, not to the commercial banks. And the ECB will be obligated to repay the Fed in dollars.


What could possibly go wrong with this wonderful plan where the US Federal Reserve prints the money to bail out the Eurozone banksters? Oh wait . . .



(in reply to EternalHoH)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/15/2011 5:41:01 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Would it be considered wrong if some people believe; let this shit happen ?

As to face it what is happening in this desire to make everything work could be unnatural, we could be experiencing the fallacy that we have grown up and been trained to believe in.

Is there another way ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/15/2011 7:41:15 PM   
FirstQuaker


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Joined: 3/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Would it be considered wrong if some people believe; let this shit happen ?

As to face it what is happening in this desire to make everything work could be unnatural, we could be experiencing the fallacy that we have grown up and been trained to believe in.

Is there another way ?


If the Euro falls, the Fourth Reich falls apart.

They are talking of 50 percent contraction in the economies of some of the Europlayers, and a national per capita cost of  between 9500 and 11500 Euros in each country exiting the Eurozone.

And you can forget the free movement of labor, those countries ahead of the game in Europe will be shutting the immigration doors.

And watch what would go on with the new currencies,  and the volatility in their values. Let the German money apreciate and the German goods would get unbuyable, for instance. And what do you think Greek or Portuguese money would be worth? Then there is Ireland . . .

Then, just what will happen to those nice state run Eurozone industries?

And some of the eastern EU countries would revert back to authoritarian governments they haven't been out of totalitarian regimes for that long now.

This could get really ugly for Europeans.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/16/2011 2:29:12 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		But then in what you say it's all that religion money.

What do people need other than food, clothing and protection from the elements, and does it really matter who sits in the top seat in your country, because those at the top always have and always will look after themselves, do they have any real interest in those at the bottom beyond what as leaders they must be seen to be doing ?

If it all turned to shit, the money economy collapsed, what would people do other than attempt to survive, and survive as people have done for thousands of years before the present premise, would they go back to that full time job of just surviving, searching for food where it can be found ? Here, where I live, the seashore used to be farmed, seaweed was harvested for food right up until just after WW2, and small sail driven boats used to fish for what was needed with a minor surplus to trade, everything people had came from their surroundings, not deep holes in the ground in far away countries. Could it be what has been created via oil is unsustainable, could we be seeing the beginning of the end of what was working for a while, but is now struggling to survive ?

Now I understand oil is at the centre of all arguments, because oil is energy and a whole host of other things it is wasted on, plastic packaging for instance, that stuff we don't want, but get anyway to fill the trash can, there needing others to dispose of it, but has our dependence on oil become unnatural, are we panicking because we have become lazy and dependant on others thus giving us our lifestyle which is crumbling.

Addictions, fatties, population explosion all the things that it seems we must tackle in our societies, could those things be a problem to our societies because we have become lazy and dependant on money instead of getting off our asses and seeking to survive for ourselves?

Now leaders why do they want everything to work, could it be because they are leaders, i.e. the top of the pile where as leaders they can expect an easier standard of living ?


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/16/2011 9:56:10 AM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Try this, what exactly would happen in the UK for example if the money became worthless?

60 million people are not going to forage off the land in Blighty, assuming they even had the skills to do it, now half the food supply is off shore, and just what would they be paying for it with? The, as you noted, there is the oil that powers all this fun. Anmd winter cometh, and heat of some sort is needed.

Then what do you think would happen if the police did not get paid? Pr the teachers, imagine what would go on if the free babysitting service provided by the schoolos fell apart.

What would the landlords do, evict everyone for non payment of rents? Would the hospitals and GP's start taking chickens and potatoes in payment? Never mind the rest of the government, taxes paid in worthless money are meaningless., you can only burn the furniture for so long.

If you can picture this in the UK, imagine the madness across the EU.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/16/2011 2:23:16 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Well, what are we all going to do when affordable oil runs out, will we see more of the same, what about the US deficit, can't keep raising the debt ceiling, something has to break at some point. So perhaps it is best we all get used to the fact that what we have now stands to become more expensive, and lets start thinking before the shit hits the fan, so when the shit does hit the fan, because it will at some point we won't be caught with our trolleys around our ankles.

What we have is falling apart, you are a fool if you ca't see it.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/16/2011 4:05:59 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
We have enough tar sands, coal and oil deposits, wind, sun and nuclear fuel to keep us going for the foreseeable future.


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/16/2011 7:19:21 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Yet we still squabble over Middle Eastern oil.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/16/2011 7:46:49 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Try this, what exactly would happen in the UK for example if the money became worthless?

60 million people are not going to forage off the land in Blighty, assuming they even had the skills to do it, now half the food supply is off shore, and just what would they be paying for it with? The, as you noted, there is the oil that powers all this fun. Anmd winter cometh, and heat of some sort is needed.

Then what do you think would happen if the police did not get paid? Pr the teachers, imagine what would go on if the free babysitting service provided by the schoolos fell apart.

What would the landlords do, evict everyone for non payment of rents? Would the hospitals and GP's start taking chickens and potatoes in payment? Never mind the rest of the government, taxes paid in worthless money are meaningless., you can only burn the furniture for so long.

If you can picture this in the UK, imagine the madness across the EU.


I dunno... California sent out IOUs to people, yeah, sure, a few people bitched but that was pretty much it... so that could work..

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RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/16/2011 8:53:22 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
As if "squabbling" for resources is something new?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yet we still squabble over Middle Eastern oil.


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/17/2011 12:01:46 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		But as time advances and the more energy hungry methods of seeking control evolve the more chance that a squabble between major players will envelop us all.

But half the way of countering any threat is by knowing of a threat's existence, we are all threatened on a day to day basis, our live are becoming harder and harder, our hard earned is going smaller and smaller distances, therefore there is a problem and perhaps not one that is going to go away, because of that human frailty; greed.

But how can one fight the greedy, simple, by not giving into them, stop pandering to their desires, and how, cut back on what you use, not because you can't afford to use, but because you want to even if you can afford. When the greedy start seeing their money drain away, then they will be nicer to us. As a customer, control the vendor, not let the vendor control you, after all, these stiff times have revealed one important thing; we are in a buyers market, therefore as customers we have the power to control those that threaten us with their greed.

I just come back from my monthly shop, got my food in for the month, at a cost of £43, as to heating, that only goes on when there is ice on the ground, it has been that way for the past five years, the OAP's around here have taught me something; layers.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 9/17/2011 12:05:45 PM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Developing European Banking Crisis - 9/17/2011 12:11:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

I see Greeks reaction and hear according to the news that they still have countless people aged 110+ where their relatives still get paid their pension cause nobody checks if they truly are


they ARE alive. Its the Greek Yogurt.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 60
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