What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 12:07:07 PM)

I have re-written the news story to remove all references to the nation the spy was spying for -

quote:

A former government space scientist pleaded guilty yesterday to one count of attempted espionage for trying to sell classified information to an undercover FBI agent posing as a //edited// spy.

During an appearance in federal court, Stewart David Nozette admitted that he tried to provide //edited// with top secret information about satellites, early warning systems, ways of retaliating against large-scale attack, communications intelligence information, and major elements of defense strategy.

Both the Justice Department and Nozette’s lawyers have agreed to a sentence of 13 years in prison, with credit for two years Nozette has already spent behind bars. US District Judge Paul Friedman said he was prepared to accept the deal, pending Nozette’s cooperation with prosecutors, a procedure expected to last into November.

In court, Nozette said he understood the charge to which he was pleading. He could have been sentenced to death had he been convicted of all four counts of attempted espionage.

Before his arrest, Nozette told an undercover FBI agent in the sting operation on Oct. 19, 2009, that the information he was passing to //edited// had cost the US government anywhere from $200 million to almost $1 billion to develop, according to newly filed court papers.

In the Oct. 19 conversation at the Mayflower Hotel in downtown Washington, Nozette told the undercover agent that “I’ve crossed the Rubicon...I’ve made a career choice.’’

Nozette had high-level security clearances during decades of government work on projects at NASA, the Energy Department, and the National Space Council in President George H.W. Bush’s White House. He has a doctorate in planetary sciences from MIT and was known primarily as a defense technologist who had worked on the Reagan-era missile defense shield effort.


Your opinion:

(a) If the //edited// country was North Korea, what should have been the penalty?
(b) If the //edited// country was China, what should have been the penalty?
(c) If the //edited// country was Syria, what should have been the penalty?
(d) If the //edited// country was Cuba, what should have been the penalty?
(e) If the //edited// country was the United Kingdom, what should have been the penalty?
(f) If the //edited// country was Israel, what should have been the penalty?

Lastly, without checking via the Internet, what country was Stewart David Nozette actually caught spying for?

Once you have posted your opinion on this Forum thread, but not before, check the news story at Associated Press September 6, 2011

Did your opinion change after reading the complete article?




slvemike4u -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 12:12:51 PM)

Here's a question for you....amongst this crowd what do you think the percentage of posters who would not immediately recognize that the country in question is indeed Isreal?
Second question....why should the country on whose behalf the spying was being done for influence the sentence ?
In my opinion it doesn't and shouldn't.The penalty is what it is.....the offending country( so to speak) has nothing to do with the offense.




Fightdirecto -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 12:33:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Here's a question for you....amongst this crowd what do you think the percentage of posters who would not immediately recognize that the country in question is indeed Isreal?

Second question....why should the country on whose behalf the spying was being done for influence the sentence ?

In my opinion it doesn't and shouldn't.The penalty is what it is.....the offending country (so to speak) has nothing to do with the offense.

You are aware that there are many Americans, and not just Jewish-Americans but also evangelical fundamentalist "Christian" conservatives, who are still agitating to get convicted American spy/traitor Jonathan Pollard released from prison because, in their minds, it really wasn't "spying" because he was doing it for the Republic of Israel?

IMO, any American citizen caught spying on the United States for ANY other nation should receive life without parole in solitary confinement (the death penalty would be too quick and easy a punishment).




servantforuse -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 12:42:30 PM)

How about hang by your neck, regardless of what country he/she was spying for.




Fightdirecto -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 12:49:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

How about hang by your neck, regardless of what country he/she was spying for.

As I said earlier, hanging is too quick and easy a punishment. Insufficient suffering.

I still believe spending the rest of your natural life (say 20, 30 or 40 years) in a room with no contact with any other human except the prison guards is a more appropriate punishment.




slvemike4u -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 12:55:10 PM)

Yes I am aware of that fact....I am also aware that as we speak Pollard still rots in jail.Hell the Rosenbergs had their supporters too....no great surprise there,we are a nation comprised of folks with many different and divergent views....the Rosenbergs were still executed despite the protests.Pollard still rots despite the entreaties from those who believe that simply due to the fact that it was on the behalf of Isreal he should be treated with more leniency .
The noise being made on his(Pollards) behalf probably does more harm than good,where his chance to breath free air is concerned.We as a nation can not afford to be seen to listening to such justifications......The penalties for espionage perpetrated against this nation can be graded on a curve based on which country the spying is being conducted for.




Moonhead -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 12:56:13 PM)

Wasn't the death penalty removed for treason in 1990?
(Even if it wasn't, as you're not actually at war with Israel at present, so spying for them isn't actually treason in the first place: just highly amusing when somebody's crap enough at it to get caught...)




Hillwilliam -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 12:57:15 PM)

Stick him in the hole no matter who he was spying for.




Moonhead -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 1:00:21 PM)

You wouldn't say it's a less severe matter coming from a spook from the country that's universally regarded as your bitch in the middle east rather than (say) Pakistan or Afghanistan, then?




slvemike4u -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 1:04:42 PM)

Less severe as far as the National Security of the United States is concerned........yes.Yet no less severe as far as the penalties for being caught engaging in such nefarious activities is concerned .




MileHighM -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 1:28:02 PM)

[sm=agree.gif]




willbeurdaddy -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 1:31:40 PM)

I love the hypocrisy. We cant waterboard someone who isnt protected by the Constitution but we can inflict cruel and unsual punishment on a US Citizen




MileHighM -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 1:33:59 PM)

Waterboarding should be part of every fraternaty's initiation ceremony... Same thing with panties on the head




Moonhead -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 1:45:15 PM)

I thought a few fraternities had started waterboarding new bugs as part of their hazing since the fuss started over camp x ray?




Hillwilliam -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 1:51:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I love the hypocrisy. We cant waterboard someone who isnt protected by the Constitution but we can inflict cruel and unsual punishment on a US Citizen

What are you calling cruel and unusual punishment?

Life in jail?

Hanging?

Solitary confinement?

When did you become a liberal?




ricken -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 1:56:47 PM)

Fuck em, kill him...I don't care about his background or who he is selling info to. Kill him....

As far as locking him in a cell, thats too much money for taxpayers to wast.

Of course we could just cripple him, like take off his arms and legs and ship him to the country he spied for and let them pay for him....




Lucylastic -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 2:07:10 PM)

oooh another liberal




Anaxagoras -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 2:21:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Wasn't the death penalty removed for treason in 1990?
(Even if it wasn't, as you're not actually at war with Israel at present, so spying for them isn't actually treason in the first place: just highly amusing when somebody's crap enough at it to get caught...)

Good point. Selling secrets is qualified as treason only to an actual enemy in the constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States so I think it should be lesser for allies like the UK compared to North Korea. We shouldn't pretend that the US doesn't spy on its allies either. Wikileaks also illustrated that quite recently. BTW Pollard should have been severely punished but for some reason he has served longer than any other American convicted of spying for an allie by a multiple, and more than most of those convicted for spying for enemies.




Termyn8or -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 2:29:21 PM)

"I have re-written the news story to remove all references to the nation the spy was spying for -"

Now just how did I know ?

T^T




susan34B -> RE: What penalty should we give someone caught spying against the U.S.A. for a foreign government? (9/8/2011 2:52:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ricken

Fuck em, kill him...I don't care about his background or who he is selling info to. Kill him....

As far as locking him in a cell, thats too much money for taxpayers to wast.

Of course we could just cripple him, like take off his arms and legs and ship him to the country he spied for and let them pay for him....

Will this also apply for US spies caught abroad??




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