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Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/8/2011 11:27:09 PM   
FirstQuaker


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Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Apparently the "Arab Spring"is fast becoming an Israeli winter. While the various revolts going on around the region, often led by Islamic fundes, must be keeping the midnight oil burning in Jerusalem, as the Israelites consider the unpleasant possibilities, the Turks announced they are planning to have their naval forces escort aid vessels to Gaza.

Additionally, the Turks claim to have suspended all military ties with the Israelis, too.

quote:

The eastern Mediterranean will no longer be a place where Israeli naval forces can freely exercise their “bullying” practices against civilian vessels, a Turkish official said Friday.

The official said this would be the outcome of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu’s statement earlier in the day that “Turkey would take every precaution it deems necessary for the safety of maritime navigation in the eastern Mediterranean.” Davutoğlu’s statement about providing maritime safety in the eastern Mediterranean grabbed the most attention among the various sanctions against Israel the foreign minister announced Friday. He did not further elaborate, however, on what he meant by taking “every precaution.”

The Turkish foreign minister’s statement will likely spark a new faceoff between Turkey and Israel, the region’s strongest armies, in the eastern Mediterranean. A potential confrontation between the two countries’ navies would have serious negative consequences for regional stability.


And exactly what will happen if the Turks run the blockade with their navy? Militarily it is widely believed the Turks can take the Israeli naval lunch money.

Meantime -


quote:

As part of Turkey’s more aggressive strategy against Israel, sources told the Daily News that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is planning to visit Hamas-controlled Gaza in the coming weeks, an intention he voiced in late July.

“Our prime minister has already instructed the Foreign Ministry to set a date for the visit. We are looking for the best timing for the visit,” a diplomatic source said. “Our primary purpose is to draw the world’s attention to what is going on in Gaza and to push the international community to end the unfair embargo imposed by Israel.”
-
‘Israel’s bullying in eastern Med is over’

Not happy with that, the Turks are also waving the hatchet at Cyprus over various oil and gas drilling.




The news also has even the Saudi King sending a secret letter to Obama allegedly concerning the Palestinian question.

Then there is the issue of a "civil war" inside NATO, and also the Turks are not real pleased with the way the Libyan adventure has worked. And Turkey is the second most powerful NATO member in terms of conventional forces, they have a lot of toys from the Cold War days and have been updating and upgrading them since then.

So what happens if the Turks run the Gaza blockade with their Navy? If you shoot at a Turkish warship you are likely to get a war as fast as you could want.

While the area is not very happy to see the Turk running free militarily again, as it was only a hundred years ago when the Ottomans ran the region, and few of the locals wants to see that unhappy thing occur again,. the non-Jewish locals most likely will all be taking the Turkish side, if the matchup is with Israel.

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/8/2011 11:42:18 PM   
MrRodgers


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Status: offline 		If the Turks even get close and fire, they will pay a very heavy price. All navies are sitting ducks and pay a very heavy price to air power.

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/8/2011 11:48:00 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

If the Turks even get close and fire, they will pay a very heavy price. All navies are sitting ducks and pay a very heavy price to air power.

That would kick things off nicely.

K.

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 12:19:56 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		It will be interesting to see if 'peace-loving' 'victim' Israel compounds it's series of colossal diplomatic blunders that have brought things to this point, by picking a military fight with a NATO member of long standing.

It will be even more interesting if and when NATO countries invoke the "attack against one of us is an attack against all of us" provisions of their Charter ...... They're not likely to swallow the patent BS the US did over the USS Liberty incident.

How will bully-boy Israel, intoxicated by its resounding successes at overwhelming pitifully armed opponents such as the Palestinians, fare when it the fight is a little fairer?

Even more interestingly where will the US stand? Who is more vital to US interests - Europe or Israel? Bit of a no-brainer that isn't it? But given the control Zionists have long had over the State Dept, who knows......?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/9/2011 12:25:27 AM >

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 12:28:32 AM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		Now you did it.  You spake the unspakable.

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 1:08:37 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		No big surprise. Oblunder has shown that he is anti-Israel.

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 5:23:37 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		The post's premise confuses me.  The Arab Spring as I understand it refers to Arab nations shaking off their totalitarian leadership, usually a long-lived one.  It has centered on wresting control from the existing governments.

Turkey has in fact been getting more anti-Israel but I fail to see a connection.


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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 7:48:25 AM   
FirstQuaker


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Status: offline 		I think the question of Palestine and Gaza are intertwined in the regional psyche and no political group or leader in the area has ever lost political points by denouncing the Israelis, regarding the Palestinians.

An for better or worse, the current Muslim "man on the street" is dissatisfied with the Palestinian status quo, never mind the Israeli expansion on the West Bank and the Gaza blockade and so on, and both the current Arab regime leaders and those trying to replace them are certainly aware of this, and neither are wanting  to be seen as catering to the Israelis, during these times of trouble.

In the case of Turkey, they are the big dog in the area, militarily, politically and economically, and while they were and have been one of the Israeli allies, shooting the nine Turks aboard the aid ship and then acting if it were a good thing, is not the way to please the Turkish masses and their government does answer to the public.

Much of the brokered peace in the area was between the regime leaders and the Isrealis, not between the nations and Jerusalem. And as these leaders fall, so does this diplomatic handiwork. Negotiating with the democratically empowered Arab public and any new government will be a whole different ballgame for the Israelis, as they are widely seen as invaders and usurpers.



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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 8:05:26 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

No big surprise. Oblunder has shown that he is anti-Israel.
wtf does the President have to do with the subject of this thread?

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 8:09:02 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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Status: offline 		I didn't know Obama was running things in turkey, pops. You haters are so predictable. I suppose he caused the Japanese tsunami AND Hurricane Irene as well.
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

No big surprise. Oblunder has shown that he is anti-Israel.


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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 8:10:38 AM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		And as soon as they(the haters) van figure out how he did it ,they will jump all over him

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 8:18:34 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Turkey has in fact been getting more anti-Israel but I fail to see a connection.

Turkey has been turning against Israel for a few years due to Erdoğan's move toward Islamism http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/15/eastward-bound/ but many make out it only began after the deaths on the Mavi Mariner last year. Hopefully the secular tradition http://www.investigativeproject.org/2039/an-open-letter-to-mr-recep-tayyip-erdogan which is reisistant to Islamism will prevail in Turkey although I doubt it. I have a feeling that the move to break the blockade is just bluster on Turkey's part to appease Syria and Iran. Iran repeatedly threatened to do the same thing last year but backed away in the end. After the Palmer Report it will be seen by many as Turkey warmongering.

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 8:21:15 AM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		The black WASP spent enough time as a CIA brat to know just what would happen if the US took any sides in this snakepit.

He supports Israel, the whole place falls on the US. He supports Palestinians, he tosses Israel under the bus.

And then there is the country by country sack of troubles the US can get into by supporting one side or the other in the civil wars, and the aftermaths.

The best that can be done by outsiders of all stripes is to support the whole lot going to the bargaining tables and voting booths, instead of taking up rifles and going to battle.



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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 12:52:26 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

No big surprise. Oblunder has shown that he is anti-Israel.
wtf does the President have to do with the subject of this thread?

It's all he could think of to say.

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 4:11:25 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		A revealing opinion piece analysing the current Turkish-Israeli dispute can be found here.

Written by a senior adviser to Turkish PM Erdogan, it unequivocally identifies the Israeli murder of 9 peace activists during the Mavi Marmara incident last year as the turning point in Turkish-Israeli relations. From the Turkish perspective, Israel's refusal to apologise for the murder of 8 Turkish and 1 US citizens is the sticking point.

While it's good to see someone stand up to, and demand accountability from the thugs of the IDF for a change, one wonders why the US Govt is so silent about the murder of a US citizen by its alleged ally. Has the Zionist lobby in Washington forced the US to cede the right to murder US citizens with impunity to Israel?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/9/2011 4:13:42 PM >

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 7:42:17 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"No big surprise. Oblunder has shown that he is anti-Israel. "

How about he supports the US and forgets about them. And cut off foreign aid while he's at it. He's nowhere near anti-Israel. Bullshit.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 9/9/2011 7:46:55 PM >

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 7:54:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

A revealing opinion piece analysing the current Turkish-Israeli dispute can be found here.

Written by a senior adviser to Turkish PM Erdogan, it unequivocally identifies the Israeli murder of 9 peace activists during the Mavi Marmara incident last year as the turning point in Turkish-Israeli relations. From the Turkish perspective, Israel's refusal to apologise for the murder of 8 Turkish and 1 US citizens is the sticking point.

While it's good to see someone stand up to, and demand accountability from the thugs of the IDF for a change, one wonders why the US Govt is so silent about the murder of a US citizen by its alleged ally. Has the Zionist lobby in Washington forced the US to cede the right to murder US citizens with impunity to Israel?



Since even the UN has vindicated Israel via the Palmer report for everything except a self contradictory claim of excessive force, you might want to temper your use of "murder".

Oh, nm, its tweety.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 9/9/2011 7:55:21 PM >

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 7:55:23 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"Has the Zionist lobby in Washington forced the US to cede the right to murder US citizens with impunity to Israel?"

Yes. Foregone conclusion years ago.

T^T

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 8:21:53 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

A revealing opinion piece analysing the current Turkish-Israeli dispute can be found here.

Written by a senior adviser to Turkish PM Erdogan, it unequivocally identifies the Israeli murder of 9 peace activists during the Mavi Marmara incident last year as the turning point in Turkish-Israeli relations. From the Turkish perspective, Israel's refusal to apologise for the murder of 8 Turkish and 1 US citizens is the sticking point.

While it's good to see someone stand up to, and demand accountability from the thugs of the IDF for a change, one wonders why the US Govt is so silent about the murder of a US citizen by its alleged ally. Has the Zionist lobby in Washington forced the US to cede the right to murder US citizens with impunity to Israel?



Since even the UN has vindicated Israel via the Palmer report for everything except a self contradictory claim of excessive force, you might want to temper your use of "murder".

Multiple gunshots in the back fired by members of an armed military force causing the deaths of unarmed civilians qualifies as murder in any one's book Willbur. That the guilty parties are IDF thugs might be enough to exonerate them in your blinkered vision; for the sane world, murder is murder.

As regards this claim: "the UN has vindicated Israel via the Palmer report for everything except a self contradictory claim of excessive force";
(a) it is false, as any reading of the Palmer Report will prove. Palmer does NOT make this finding;
(b) The Palmer panel was not constituted as, nor does it qualify as a legal panel. From the Palmer Panel's Report Introduction*:
"“5. It needs to be understood from the outset that this Panel is unique. Its methods of
inquiry are similarly unique. The Panel is not a court. It was not asked to make determinations of the legal issues or to adjudicate on liability.” and
6. “It means that the Panel cannot make definitive findings either of fact or law.”
.
There is a mountain of international legal opinion, including UN reports finding the Gaza blockade to be illegal in international law. Many have found the blockade to be "collective punishment" and therefore a war crime; and
(c) If Zionists wish to use the UN to support their position, there are some 80+ UN resolutions condemning Israeli policies, atrocities and colonisation of the West Bank. If they are going to be consistent, Israel needs to implement these resolutions immediately. No cherry picking thanks - it just makes Zionism look even more despicable than it already is. And it demonstrates how hypocritical, false and hollow Zionist moans about alleged UN "bias" against Israel are.


* Palmer Committee Final Report (2011) Report of the Secretary-General’s Panel of Inquiry on the 31 May 2010 Flotilla Incident.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/9/2011 8:30:29 PM >

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RE: Trouble Looking to Happen - 9/9/2011 8:27:02 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

A revealing opinion piece analysing the current Turkish-Israeli dispute can be found here.

Written by a senior adviser to Turkish PM Erdogan, it unequivocally identifies the Israeli murder of 9 peace activists during the Mavi Marmara incident last year as the turning point in Turkish-Israeli relations. From the Turkish perspective, Israel's refusal to apologise for the murder of 8 Turkish and 1 US citizens is the sticking point.

While it's good to see someone stand up to, and demand accountability from the thugs of the IDF for a change, one wonders why the US Govt is so silent about the murder of a US citizen by its alleged ally. Has the Zionist lobby in Washington forced the US to cede the right to murder US citizens with impunity to Israel?



Since even the UN has vindicated Israel via the Palmer report for everything except a self contradictory claim of excessive force, you might want to temper your use of "murder".

Multiple gunshots in the back fired by members of an armed military force causing the deaths of unarmed civilians qualifies as murder in any one's book Willbur. That the guilty parties are IDF thugs might be enough to exonerate them in your blinkered vision; for the sane world, murder is murder.

As regards this claim: "the UN has vindicated Israel via the Palmer report for everything except a self contradictory claim of excessive force";
(a) it is false, as any reading of the Palmer Report will prove. Palmer does NOT make this finding;
(b) The Palmer panel was not constituted as, nor does it qualify as a legal panel ;
"“It needs to be understood from the outset that this Panel is unique. Its methods of
inquiry are similarly unique. The Panel is not a court. It was not asked to make determinations of the legal issues or to adjudicate on liability.” and
6. “It means that the Panel cannot make definitive findings either of fact or law.”
From the Palmer Panel's Report Introduction*.
There is a mountain of international legal opinion, including UN reports finding the Gaza blockade to be illegal in international law. Many view it as "collective punishment" and therefore a war crime; and
(c) If Zionists wish to use the UN to support their position, there are some 80+ UN resolutions condemning Israeli policies, atrocities and colonisation of the West Bank. If they are going to be consistent, Israel needs to implement these resolutions immediately. No cherry picking thanks - it just makes Zionism look even more despicable than it already is. And it demonstrates how hypocritical, false and hollow Zionist moans about alleged UN "bias" against Israel are.


* Palmer Committee Final Report (2011) Report of the Secretary-General’s Panel of Inquiry on the 31 May 2010 Flotilla Incident.


You actually could teach KenDoll a few things about spin. In your case it just makes me vomit like a poorly designed ride.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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