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RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/13/2011 4:14:46 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Uhhhhhm......was there something preceding this (as to an actual point) or were you just feeling frustrated over something? "

You are about the third person to assume something like that. Why does something have to be wrong ?

T^T

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/13/2011 5:02:31 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Uhhhhhm......was there something preceding this (as to an actual point) or were you just feeling frustrated over something? "

You are about the third person to assume something like that. Why does something have to be wrong ?

T^T


(Because it wasn't preceded by a point...a topic...something that relates to your discussion...a reason for being upset or creating a discussion...ergo...."HUH????")

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/13/2011 5:10:23 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		It's an argument about arguments. Simple as that. Any and all topics can be illustrative. The point is who do you believe ?

T^T

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/13/2011 6:33:08 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"In the end, as much as we value conformity, the only reason any species goes extinct, is overspecialization "

That seems contradictory in a way. The conformity is good and then bad. But then I think you mean specialization in the sense of all being specialized the same way, no ?

"The Dodo's went extinct because there was no population of suspicious and curmudgeonly Dodo deviates "

Perhaps it would be good to look into exactly why they went extinct. If the climate is acceptable and there is suitable food the only other reason for extinction is what ? Inability (or unwillingness) to reproduce ? Like koala bears that apparently can only eat eucalyptus leaves or something like that. Speaking of which, why ? Is their digestive system so specialized or are they simply addicted ? And if the former, is that what happened to the dodo ? If the latter, would the withdrawal kill them ? I doubt there are any basic nutrients peculiar to the plant needed only by the koala.

I'm not sure what the theory de jure' is about the dinosaurs but I don't think one meteor did it. Pangea was a big place. Ice ages and things OK. There are still a few things unexplained about that as well.

Of course none of us were there. And this is not really the issue. The thing here is - what do you accept ? What do I accept ? There are some things out there for which there are [supposedly] equally valid contending theories, many mutually exclusive. What causes one person to accept one while another accepts the other ?

T^T
Occams Razor, generally, plausibility, process of elimination, the only thing that explains a sudden mass extinction is massive and sudden climate change, a meteor is the most plausible cause of such a sudden shift, and there is evidence of such a meteor.

Yes, conformity is good - and bad - if all it was all good, we'd still be swinging from the trees, or swimming in the ocean - but that only works under condition of a perfectly homogenous environment. In the real world, environment varies: with latitude and longitude, with altitude and season, even during the 24 hour rotation of the sun.

In order to adapt to different niches, created by the variability of environment, some individual of a population adapted to a particular niche has to develop the adaptations that allow them to occupy the new niche, or adjust to some alteration in the old niche, making essentially a new niche - some sulfur eating metabolite had to wander away from a volcanic vent and adapt to temperatures a couples of degrees cooler, and Three and a half Billion years later, give or take, here you are: the product of so many tiny little adaptations, I can only speculate, some very large numbers - every single one of which was a deviation from some "norm", which was itself a deviation from a previous norm, etc., etc., and so on, ad infinitum.

And humans are really the inevitable result of that process, a bipedal generalist, we are the most optimally unspecialized species that has evolved to date - we evolved to be flexible, and science is just another tool, it's a systematic method of predictive analysis, that allows us to anticipate and adapt to stressors before they occur - we've found a way even around natural selection.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/13/2011 7:13:43 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		OK, so a meteor hit. Without certain (note I didn't say more) evidence, assuming that it was a cause or the sole cause of the demise of the dinosaurs could be post hoc ergo propter hoc. This can be a byproduct of Occam's razor unfortunately.

There is also evidence that the Earth's crust shifted. People generally take this to mean a cataclymic event invloving forces that boggle the mind but it is not. The crust pretty much sits on magma, as such the crust can move without changing the rotation of the core. At least that's how the theory holds. The three major evidences are in the lodestones found in certain areas, the magnetc field is lined up differently. Another piece of evidence I consider significant is the accuracy of a very very old map of the land mass under Antarctica. They did not have the equipment to do it, but the map was found to be very accurate. It may have been drawn in Biblical times. The theory is that this happens about every 15,000 years because the mass of the ice at the poles and centrifugal force. Now think the story of Noah's ark.........

Now none of this condradicts what you said, except the meteor part actually being the cause. In the case of adaptation, we had boats, dinosaurs didn't. In fact it's possible that it may have been almost ready to happen and then the meteor showed up and kinda accelerated the schedule. It's not hard to fathom why there are no data from before then, back when the dinosaurs perished.

But now really, in this case there is no direct contradiction, but sometimes there is. Historic and prehistoric times are the worst to discern sometimes because nobody here was there. We must rely on the writings or whatever of who was there, or archaeology.

Now apply this to today's science. I don't care how many channels you get on cable TV, there is no NASA secret lab, MIT lab, Sony/Phillips research, CIA backroom, 24/7 Oval office channel or a hell of alot of other channels. We simply aren't there.

For example the 9/11 debacle right now on the forum. Oh, it was only on third of one percent of the engineers who refute the official story. OK, how many scientists were there in the world during the Manhattan Project ? I'm not saying that RealO is right, I'm not saying anything is right or wrong. I've spoken my piece on the matter and I don't care about the rest of the details.

In that sense I have a problem with Mr. Occam's razor. The government was either complicit or incompetent, nothing can tell which it was or if it was both. And I don't care.

The same with most any given issue. At least for the purpose of this thread it's not so much what you believe, but why you believe it.

T^T

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/14/2011 6:50:35 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		I didn't know it was a 9-11 thing, I don't think "the government" was complicit, pretty sure my mailman had nothin' to do with it - doesn't mean that select individuals within the US, in and/or out of the government weren't complicit, it's difficult to imagine how such a bunch of complete morons could pull off a stunt like that without help, they certainly haven't shown anything like that kind of competence or imagination since then, but it's very hard to prove without the proverbial smoking gun - although there is plenty of circumstantial evidence, the short sells, etc., that somebody at least knew something of the sort was about to go down.

Unlike the the dinosaurs say, where we know there was a meteor - that a tectonic shift occurred at the same time is certainly possible, the meteor is just the best theory we have at the moment, new data could alter that, which, as you note, is always a possibility when trying to second guess the past - the information we have, is that they all died, and all within a relatively short time frame, they didn't just peter out, they all went at pretty much the same time, geologically speaking, and with respect to their otherwise incredibly long and successful tenancy, much longer than we've been around.

And no, we didn't have boats at the time, we were still some kind of tiny shrew-like insectivore, and most likely survived because we didn't have the same protein demands, and better body temperature regulation, perhaps because though smaller, we're much more likely to cuddle together and share body heat - at some of the Dinosaurs were warm blooded apparently, and the only class of Dinosaur to survive in any numbers were birds, which similarly, possess external insulation, and share a tendency to snuggle together.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/14/2011 10:12:24 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

OK, so a meteor hit. Without certain (note I didn't say more) evidence, assuming that it was a cause or the sole cause of the demise of the dinosaurs could be post hoc ergo propter hoc. This can be a byproduct of Occam's razor unfortunately.

There is also evidence that the Earth's crust shifted. People generally take this to mean a cataclymic event invloving forces that boggle the mind but it is not. The crust pretty much sits on magma, as such the crust can move without changing the rotation of the core. At least that's how the theory holds. The three major evidences are in the lodestones found in certain areas, the magnetc field is lined up differently. Another piece of evidence I consider significant is the accuracy of a very very old map of the land mass under Antarctica. They did not have the equipment to do it, but the map was found to be very accurate. It may have been drawn in Biblical times. The theory is that this happens about every 15,000 years because the mass of the ice at the poles and centrifugal force. Now think the story of Noah's ark.........

There is no such map. The one usually cited is actually a map of South America wrapped around the bottom of the page to make it fit. I know I showed you this before.
See for yourself
http://www.sacred-texts.com/piri/pirireis.jpg

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/14/2011 10:56:00 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		The map was mentioned in a documentary (of sorts) that I watched years ago, I can try to find some reference to it but who knows. I don't recall you putting up a map before but that's neither here nor there.

The whole point here is that I am not going whole hog into that theory or any other. It just seems so hard for peopl;e to accept that "It may have been this or it may have been that", instead everyone seems to have to "pick sides", a decision MUST be made, "for us or against us".

And again you have stated that something does not exist. You just don't understand that you cannot say ANYTHING does not exist. I accept that many things are highly unlikely to exist, but without being omnipotent none of us can say for sure.

I'll see if I can find something about that map or at least that documentary - when I get around to it. It's just not all that important y'know ? Like who shot JR.

T^T

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/14/2011 12:41:20 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

So, you're all out of bubble gum, what are you here to do ? Got anything to say or what ?

T^T
I think I am going to quote this post of yours and use it to reply to just about everything you post.

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(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/14/2011 4:25:58 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I am honored.

T^T

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/14/2011 4:57:46 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"When you morons finally accept facts and give up on this bullshit, you, RO, termy and rule will find life a bit easier to deal with. "

I quoted this from your quote (Rule), and it is timely because of the nature of the statement. I quoted the statement and had a response but there is something else now, of which I had not thought. Something that even you have maybe not detected.

You claim such intelligence but that's hard to prove, I think you are above average but then, do you have the capacity for omnidirectional thinking ? Let me quote that quote once more for all, perhaps you did catch on to what I am getting at but you certainly have not expessed it. Here is the quote again, but I will bold certain parts this time :

"When you morons finally accept facts and give up on this bullshit, you, RO, termy and rule will find life a bit easier to deal with. "

Rule, et alii compos mentis, what do those words mean ? They mean that we will find things go better for us if we just accept their "facts" as presented without question. That there is a reward for thinking in conformity with the published story. That things can be hard for people who think differently or don't believe the same as the masses. That conformity is good. That conformity is beneficial to one's status in society.

What else does such a statement say about the author ? That he believes that it is easier to just go with the flow, do not buck it, do not become an eddy current, do not build a dam, do not do anything, just conform like a molecule of liquid moving through a perfectly smooth pipe, not clinging to anything so as not to cause any waves, standing or otherwise, to not make waves.

Normally I enjoy irony but I must admit that this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Here we are living in a country that continually makes waves, has gone against the trend in better days and prospered because of it, and now after all this we are in a group that is not popular and goes against the status quo in our very being, and we have people here who say that we should just go with the flow because things will go better for us.

Such people are quislings.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 9/14/2011 5:00:46 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/14/2011 5:36:49 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

It's an argument about arguments. Simple as that. Any and all topics can be illustrative. The point is who do you believe ?

T^T


Ahhhhhhh....well then, there is a bit of a paradox, isn't there?

An argument abut arguments.

Somewhat of a nonplus if you will.

If nothing could be made from nothing and you felt empty inside......etc.

A conundrum at its best.



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Here's your fucking scientific proof. - 9/14/2011 9:44:24 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		If that's the way you see it fine, I can deal with that. But I would rather explore the subject of why one will take one path and another will take the alternate. You do the same thing (not you personally but people here) You will embrace the republican or democrat so freely and with fervor, not realizing that it is nothing even as inmportant as whether the AFC or the NFC wins the super bowl.

Understand this sheep. If you know ONE name of ONE player on ANY NFL team, you haven't half of my intelligence. I know better than to cloud my mind with that fucking garbage. You are truly lost and now you will tear in to me.

Predictable.

You were saying ?

T^T

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 33
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