RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them!

RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (Full Version)

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DomYngBlk -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 7:52:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Could we consolidate all the nutcase 9/11 conspiracy theory posts into one thread somewhere like poll and random stupidity? yeah- why should I have to look at all you celebrating 911! "celebrating?" what kind of a dumbass are you

thompsonx -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 8:21:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Well, at least I've now got the answer to my question of "Exactly how fucking stupid does someone have to be to believe in 9/11 Conspiracy Theories?!!" A fucking POLL... as if that's supposed to be some kind of valid, scientific evidence?!! It's become painfully clear where Jerry Springer's audience has gone. [8\|] It would appear that you feel that your opinion is more valid than the opinion of those polled. It is painfully clear that logic is not your long suit...opinions are a lot like assholes, most everyone has one and most everyone feels that theirs works best for them

tazzygirl -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 8:25:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Of course U3 is the widely given figure.... its a better number. It doesnt include those who have given up among others. So, in your world, its ok to be underemployed? 10 hours a week pay your bills? There is a reason for the U6 figures. I never said it was OK to be under-employed at all. In fact I said the opposite in Post 34. Its odd how many people have misunderstood what I was saying. I was only asking about the unemployment figures. Quality of work is a big issue as well as I said but that is not reflected in such stats. U6 includes those employed part-time. Its a vague category as I think it is anyone working between 35 hours a week to just a few hours a week but generally under-employment is not the same as unemployment which the other five U categories purely refer to. There could be an argument for having people working at the lower end of the part-time rate in a separate category. If you look at the fact that full employment in the US means a 40 hr/week job, the underemployed should be well represented and not in a separate group

Anaxagoras -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 9:20:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Of course U3 is the widely given figure.... its a better number. It doesnt include those who have given up among others. So, in your world, its ok to be underemployed? 10 hours a week pay your bills? There is a reason for the U6 figures. I never said it was OK to be under-employed at all. In fact I said the opposite in Post 34. Its odd how many people have misunderstood what I was saying. I was only asking about the unemployment figures. Quality of work is a big issue as well as I said but that is not reflected in such stats. U6 includes those employed part-time. Its a vague category as I think it is anyone working between 35 hours a week to just a few hours a week but generally under-employment is not the same as unemployment which the other five U categories purely refer to. There could be an argument for having people working at the lower end of the part-time rate in a separate category. If you look at the fact that full employment in the US means a 40 hr/week job, the underemployed should be well represented and not in a separate group We'll have to agree to differ on this. I'm not saying under-employment isn't a serious issue of concern, and I'm not saying that its something that shouldn't be represented either but I have difficulty seeing how it relates to the unemployment rate because people can work up to 35 hours a week and still be on the U6 rate. That is pretty close to the full time rate of work in the US and it also qualifies as full-time in many other Western countries like France and Germany. For those people to be lumped in with the unemployed because they would like to work longer hours but can't seems odd. Thats why I suggest there should be another rate for part-timers that work just a few hours a week and can't find more.

tazzygirl -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 9:30:31 AM)
What is U6 unemployment rate ? The U6 unemployment rate counts not only people without work seeking full-time employment (the more familiar U-3 rate), but also counts "marginally attached workers and those working part-time for economic reasons." Note that some of these part-time workers counted as employed by U-3 could be working as little as an hour a week. And the "marginally attached workers" include those who have gotten discouraged and stopped looking, but still want to work. The age considered for this calculation is 16 years and over U1 : Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer. U2 : Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work. U3 : Official unemployment rate per ILO definition. U4 : U3 + "discouraged workers", or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them. U5 : U4 + other "marginally attached workers", or "loosely attached workers", or those who "would like" and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently. U6 : U5 + Part time workers who want to work full time, but cannot due to economic reasons. Below is the overview of these six measures. U1: This is the proportion of the civilian labor force that has been unemployed for 15 weeks or longer. This unemployment rate measures workers who are chronically unemployed. During business-cycle expansions, this rate captures structural unemployment. However, during lengthy business-cycle contractions, this rate is also likely to include a significant amount of cyclical unemployment. U1 tends to be relatively small, in the range of 1-2 percent. U2: This is the proportion of the civilian labor force that is classified as job losers (workers who have been involuntarily fired or laid off from their jobs) and people who have completed temporary jobs. During business-cycle expansions, this rate is likely to capture some degree of frictional unemployment. However, during business-cycle contractions, this rate is most likely to consist of cyclical unemployment. U2 is larger than U1, but still remains substantially less than the official unemployment rate (U3). U3: This is the official unemployment rate, which is the proportion of the civilian labor force that is unemployed but actively seeking employment. U4: This is the official unemployment rate that is adjusted for discouraged workers. In other words, discouraged workers are treated just like other workers who are officially classified as unemployed, being included in both the ranks of the unemployed and the labor force. It is technically specified as the proportion of the civilian labor force (plus discouraged workers) that is either unemployed but actively seeking employment or discouraged workers. The addition of discouraged workers generally adds a few tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate. U5: This augments U4 by including marginally-attached workers to the unemployment rate calculation. Marginally attached workers are potential workers who have given up seeking employment for various reasons. One of these reasons is that the workers believe such effort would be futile, which places them in the discouraged worker category. Those who have other reasons for not seeking employment are placed in the broader marginally-attached workers category. The addition of marginally-attached workers adds a few more tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate. U6: This augments U5 by including part-time workers to the unemployment rate calculation. The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate. This measure of unemployment is perhaps the most comprehensive measure of labor resource unemployment available. http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp Where are you getting the 35 hours a week figure? It really depends on the state and the company as to what is considered full time.

Anaxagoras -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 9:55:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What is U6 unemployment rate ? The U6 unemployment rate counts not only people without work seeking full-time employment (the more familiar U-3 rate), but also counts "marginally attached workers and those working part-time for economic reasons." Note that some of these part-time workers counted as employed by U-3 could be working as little as an hour a week. And the "marginally attached workers" include those who have gotten discouraged and stopped looking, but still want to work. The age considered for this calculation is 16 years and over The only difference between U6 and U5 is adding those that are in part-time employing but would like to work full time. All the other criteria are contained in U5, namely marginally attached workers (U5) and discouraged workers (U4) along with the ILO international definitions (U3). That is why I said I felt U5 was more appropriate as it just includes those that are strictly unemployed. This BTW is still a good bit higher than U3, it adds 1.5% to the rate currently, which the government wouldn't like being used commonly instread of U3. quote: U6: This augments U5 by including part-time workers to the unemployment rate calculation. The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate. This measure of unemployment is perhaps the most comprehensive measure of labor resource unemployment available. http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp It would seem to add a lot more than 2 or 3 percent to the U5 rate. Its almost 6% in the present circumstances. Using your source which uses BLS rates, it states 16.2 % for U6 in August 2011 whilst it is just 10.6% with U5 for the same month. This difference is pretty consistent, e.g. the same month last year reads 11% for U5 and 16.7% for U6 quote: Where are you getting the 35 hours a week figure? It really depends on the state and the company as to what is considered full time. Thats correct but the BLS qualifies part-time as under 35 hours a week for their statistical uses (including U6): http://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#fullpart

Rule -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:00:33 AM)
FR If airplane crashes or kitchen fires are such perfect ways to bring down buildings, then why are demolition teams the world over still using them stone age explosives? Use an airplane! It is quicker and cheaper and better. (Or put a kitchen on fire.)

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:02:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy WRONG Yes, that is EXACTLY what you are... WRONG!!! But by all means, keep posting that ONE WORD without any support whatsover for your nonsensical assertion, and those with a brain will continue to show the ignorance your doing so. For the idiot Conspiracy Theory dolts --> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842 OOOH... LOOKY LOOKY LOOKY... ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT DISPROVES THE NONSENSICAL BLATHERINGS OF THE WOEFULLY STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORY IDIOTS. [8\|]

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:08:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx It would appear that you feel that your opinion... OOOH... OOOH... OOOH... LUCKY ME -- BECAUSE IT'S NOT MY "OPINION" -- IT'S SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN FACTS!!! For the idiot Conspiracy Theory dolts --> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842 I know the use of FACTS and SCENTIFIC EVIDENCE is a concept that's completely foreign to you, so I'm not surprised that this TEN YEAR OLD topic still hasn't sunk in for you. [8\|]

tazzygirl -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:09:32 AM)
First, the "official number" is the U3. U4 adds adds a few tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate Current U4 is 9.7 U5 adds The addition of marginally-attached workers adds a few more tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate Current U5 is 10.6 U6 adds The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate. Current U6 is 16.2, Considering this is one of the worse jobs market we have seen in a very long time. The U6 unemployment rate counts not only people without work seeking full-time employment (the more familiar U-3 rate), but also counts "marginally attached workers and those working part-time for economic reasons." Note that some of these part-time workers counted as employed by U-3 could be working as little as an hour a week. And the "marginally attached workers" include those who have gotten discouraged and stopped looking, but still want to work. The age considered for this calculation is 16 years and over Marginally attached is also included here.... along with part time workers who would be considered working in the U3 count.

Termyn8or -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:11:30 AM)
"I know the use of FACTS and SCENTIFIC EVIDENCE is a concept that's completely foreign to you" Interesting. So you have duplicated their experiments personally and arrived at the same results. Good work. T^T

Anaxagoras -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:19:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl First, the "official number" is the U3. I know. I said that a few times on here. U3 conforms to the ILO international standard which most countries use, besides the US. quote: U4 adds adds a few tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate Current U4 is 9.7 U5 adds The addition of marginally-attached workers adds a few more tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate Current U5 is 10.6 U6 adds The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate. Current U6 is 16.2, Your source which you quoted said "This augments U5 by including part-time workers to the unemployment rate calculation. The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate." This estimate might have been applicable in the past but currently the difference between U5 and U6 is almost 6%. quote: Considering this is one of the worse jobs market we have seen in a very long time. The U6 unemployment rate counts not only people without work seeking full-time employment (the more familiar U-3 rate), but also counts "marginally attached workers and those working part-time for economic reasons." Note that some of these part-time workers counted as employed by U-3 could be working as little as an hour a week. And the "marginally attached workers" include those who have gotten discouraged and stopped looking, but still want to work. The age considered for this calculation is 16 years and over Marginally attached is also included here.... along with part time workers who would be considered working in the U3 count. The point I made is that U5 includes marginally attached workers and discouraged workers as well as U3. U6 only adds part-time workers who want to work longer hours to U5.

tazzygirl -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:29:04 AM)
quote: Your source which you quoted said "This augments U5 by including part-time workers to the unemployment rate calculation. The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate." This estimate might have been applicable in the past but currently the difference between U5 and U6 is almost 6%. Its also been a long time since people have been out of work, but actively seeking.... as well as the educational levels of those seeking work has risen. 1 million applicants recently for McDonalds... which considers employees eligible for benefits at 20 hours (most day one insurance companies do). Many are doing odd jobs, from resume writing to dog walking to web designs. There are many,many people out of work completely... and many, many companies chopped hours to keep from laying people off completely. The numbers are accurate.

thompsonx -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:33:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx It would appear that you feel that your opinion... OOOH... OOOH... OOOH... LUCKY ME -- BECAUSE IT'S NOT MY "OPINION" -- IT'S SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN FACTS!!! For the idiot Conspiracy Theory dolts --> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842 I know the use of FACTS and SCENTIFIC EVIDENCE is a concept that's completely foreign to you, so I'm not surprised that this TEN YEAR OLD topic still hasn't sunk in for you. [8\|] Had you read post #17,which is what you and I are discussing, you would know that none of what you have posted from popular mechanics,that highly respected scientific publication[8\|], concerns anything in post #17. As for your snark why don't you just stick that up your ass.

Anaxagoras -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 10:39:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Your source which you quoted said "This augments U5 by including part-time workers to the unemployment rate calculation. The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate." This estimate might have been applicable in the past but currently the difference between U5 and U6 is almost 6%. Its also been a long time since people have been out of work, but actively seeking.... as well as the educational levels of those seeking work has risen. 1 million applicants recently for McDonalds... which considers employees eligible for benefits at 20 hours (most day one insurance companies do). Many are doing odd jobs, from resume writing to dog walking to web designs. There are many,many people out of work completely... and many, many companies chopped hours to keep from laying people off completely. The numbers are accurate. I cited BLS figures earlier in the thread. I wasn't disputing the numbers except about a 2 - 3% difference between U5 and U6 as the BLS stats they use have a 6% difference. Again I should point out that I'm not suggesting at all that everything is great in the US but just think U5 as a rate is more appropriate than U6 when talking about the unemployed alone.

Moonhead -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 11:58:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Could we consolidate all the nutcase 9/11 conspiracy theory posts into one thread somewhere like poll and random stupidity? yeah- why should I have to look at all you celebrating 911! "celebrating?" what kind of a dumbass are you Maybe he's one of them Mooslims? They all celebrate the ninth november, every last one of them. Even the Sufis and the ones who won't be setting foot in a mosque again until it's time to cremate them...

Moonhead -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 12:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy WRONG Yes, that is EXACTLY what you are... WRONG!!! But by all means, keep posting that ONE WORD without any support whatsover for your nonsensical assertion, and those with a brain will continue to show the ignorance your doing so. For the idiot Conspiracy Theory dolts --> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842 OOOH... LOOKY LOOKY LOOKY... ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT DISPROVES THE NONSENSICAL BLATHERINGS OF THE WOEFULLY STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORY IDIOTS. [8\|] Maybe he was just WRONGing about the Jerry Springer thing? Jerry's a lefty graduate rather than a tinfoil wearing gold collector, after all...

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 1:50:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "I know the use of FACTS and SCENTIFIC EVIDENCE is a concept that's completely foreign to you" Interesting. So you have duplicated their experiments personally and arrived at the same results. Good work. I don't need to. See, science is a wonderful thing... if you disagree with the results, the guess what... it's on YOU to DISPROVE it -- neat how that works, huh?!! But I'm guessing you have nothing to offer in the way of any valid evidence to disprove what the science has proven, and will just offer more nonsensical blather. But please do continue to do so, as it's beyond fun to laugh at those of your silly ilk!!! [8\|]

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 1:53:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ...why don't you just stick that up your ass. Because it's already firmly wedged in your ass -- right between your ears. [sm=rofl.gif] Next time do your homework before opening your silly pie-hole. [8\|]

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: I Know "The Facts" I still don't believe them! (9/12/2011 1:56:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead More likely of the Lefty Tin-Foil Hat ilk -- like you. [8\|]

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