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Social Security - 9/10/2011 4:07:23 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		There is alot of talk now... it comes up from time to time, especially around election season... about how SS is a ponzi scheme.

What say you, yes or no? And provide an explanation for your answers, boys and girls.

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 4:35:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 4:41:30 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		No and the why is easy...there is no "scheme" involved.Everything about SS is front and center....including the fact that the mathematical models show it to be solvent thru 2037. Will something need to be done prior to that date to shore it up...of course,but it isn't a scheme,ponzi or otherwise.

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 4:44:53 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		In the strictest of definitions no, but it's damn similar. The only way for it to work without putting undue stress on the economy would be for there to be a moderate amount of inflation and an ever increasing workforce to pay into it. Otherwise it would become necessary to raise the retirement age as well as reduce benefits and/or increase the contribution level.

Unless enough people die off that is, but that doesn't seem to be working out. Doc says I could live to be 100, wonder if I'll ever be eligible for my fifty bucks a month after paying 65.2%. That's where it's headed. Yup, and with the value of a dollar going on it's merry trend that means I'll get one loaf of bread or postage stamp per month.

T^T

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 4:46:35 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3840486/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#


I unhid you for this? *ugh*

Why is it so much to ask that people provide a response that makes sense!

In answer to the OP, I'd only seen someone make that comment once and just today and I think it was someone's signature line.

A ponzi scheme? OMG Some people have too much time on their hands.

SS is not a ponzi scheme if for no other reason than intent. A ponzi scheme's intent is intentionally fraudulent in order to profit illegally. The intent of social security was to provide support to the citizens of this country. Unfortunately what could have and should have worked has been (from what I've read) grossly mishandled over the years and now it is on the verge of being bankrupted. Who is profiting from social security? I don't see anyone profiting to the degree one would in a ponzi scheme.

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 4:57:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

In answer to the OP, I'd only seen someone make that comment once and just today and I think it was someone's signature line.


Just because you have not seen it doesnt make your statement true.

A search on ponzi scheme revealed 203 results. Half of those I would attribute to convos about Maddoff.

Just a recent one, for example....

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3829245

Another from today...

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3840813

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 4:59:58 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3840486/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#


Saw that after I started this thread... I agree with you, in part.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 5:01:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

postage stamp per month


You can forget that, It wont be around that long.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 5:09:54 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3840486/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#

Well hey, as I we've seen, PBS is just trying to catch up to Fox and they have a...long way to go. At least unlike Fox, PBS doesn't tell 'them' what to say. "What oil ?" ("Where's the oil in the gulf ?")

As for soc. sec. it is no more a ponzi scheme and very much less a Ponzi scheme than capitalism as reflected by the casino gambling with our conveniently tax subsidized retirement portfolio on wall street.

Here is a program that has an obvious stated goal. Capitalism being reduced to mere speculation in paper, has no real foundation upon which ALL of society can turn to save and invest for their retirement...casinos being little more than a crap shoot.

Without it, we would be in depression with the loss of some estimate $3-6 Trillion in the most recent investor/gambler bailout of wall street where presumably society would otherwise invest those funds...for their retirement. They (retirees) lost and lost big time.

The concept of all society contributing via a payroll tax to guarantee a minimum stipend or financial floor under which nobody over 65 would fall, is no different than the $trillions we have contrbuted in the same or similar manner to the defense of the country. In fact...at a much, much lower price.

There are no financial problems inherent in the program that our SS robbing congress didn't borrow and squander some estimated $2-$3 trillion and that now...is NOT there.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/10/2011 5:35:17 PM >

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 5:18:11 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"postage stamp per month


You can forget that, It wont be around that long. "

Damn, what was I thinking. It is solvent ON PAPER until 2037 at which time "something will have to be done". Hmmm, the government goes deeper into the hole every year with no end in sight. They can't do anything now, and they will be even less able to in 2037. I won't be 100 years old until 2060.

Yup, with old math it doesn't add up. Hell I doubt it even adds up with new math.

T^T

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 5:32:47 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

In answer to the OP, I'd only seen someone make that comment once and just today and I think it was someone's signature line.


Just because you have not seen it doesnt make your statement true.


Oh, ffs, take a chill pill. I wasn't disputing that it was stated elsewhere. I was just mentioning that I had only seen it once before. It wasn't a challenge to the veracity of your statement. It was just my observation. Not every comment made is antagonistic and that's something to keep in mind.

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 5:33:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"postage stamp per month


You can forget that, It wont be around that long. "

Damn, what was I thinking. It is solvent ON PAPER until 2037 at which time "something will have to be done". Hmmm, the government goes deeper into the hole every year with no end in sight. They can't do anything now, and they will be even less able to in 2037. I won't be 100 years old until 2060.

Yup, with old math it doesn't add up. Hell I doubt it even adds up with new math.

T^T



LOL.. damn, you arent thinking at all. I was referring to the Postal service.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 5:37:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Oh, ffs, take a chill pill. I wasn't disputing that it was stated elsewhere. I was just mentioning that I had only seen it once before. It wasn't a challenge to the veracity of your statement. It was just my observation. Not every comment made is antagonistic and that's something to keep in mind.


Oh ffs then make yourself clearer. Most of the posts you make are antagonistic in nature.

I said there was alot of talk.... you dont listen to the news? You dont read the papers?

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/09/08/is-social-security-a-ponzi-scheme/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20103039-503544.html

Something YOU may want to keep in mind.... Not everyone's world revolves around a message board.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 5:39:49 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"postage stamp per month


You can forget that, It wont be around that long. "

Damn, what was I thinking. It is solvent ON PAPER until 2037 at which time "something will have to be done". Hmmm, the government goes deeper into the hole every year with no end in sight. They can't do anything now, and they will be even less able to in 2037. I won't be 100 years old until 2060.

Yup, with old math it doesn't add up. Hell I doubt it even adds up with new math.

T^T

...and it's because there won't be enough children and immigrant slaves to tax high enough...to pay it all back. SS should be flush and all of our great consciencious 'fiscal conservatives'...squandered it. We already know who isn't going to pay just as they don't pay a premium for defense...so ?

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 10:51:29 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh ffs then make yourself clearer. Most of the posts you make are antagonistic in nature.

I said there was alot of talk.... you dont listen to the news? You dont read the papers?

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/09/08/is-social-security-a-ponzi-scheme/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20103039-503544.html

Something YOU may want to keep in mind.... Not everyone's world revolves around a message board.


Most of my posts are antagonistic? *L* You clearly haven't read most of my posts. And the funny thing is, I feel that way about your posts. Not to mention that you're often incredibly condescending in your responses.

I listen to the news - sometimes. I don't read any newspapers, other than occasionally online. And in the end, I really don't care if there is one person or thousands who have made the ponzi scheme comment. You misinterpreted my intent and I tried to clarify it and you're still going on about it.

As for the last line in your posting above? Have a nice day. :)

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RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 11:23:49 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Since you have added nothing to the thread with your last post.... enjoy your day.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Social Security - 9/10/2011 11:42:02 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
There is alot of talk now... it comes up from time to time, especially around election season... about how SS is a ponzi scheme.

What say you, yes or no? And provide an explanation for your answers, boys and girls.


I say no. SS is a "pay as you go" system which doesn't mean it cannot crash and burn just like a ponzi scheme (particularly if ti is mismanaged)... but no, it is clinically not a ponzi scheme. However, you can easily see one weakness of the pay as you go system if there are too many recipients and not enough contributors. It begins to look a little like a ponzi scheme.


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