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RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 10:42:09 AM

JohnWarren

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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
You think someone scheduled them to arrive at the same times as the surprise Japanese attack as a joke? Really, what world do you inhabit?

Whoever scheduled them could just as easily have sent a squadron of fighters. So yes, it must have been a sick joke.

Fighters? From where? It wasn't until we got the P51 that we had fighters that could even come close to matching the endurance of a B-17 which was 3400 miles. From Treasure Island in San Francisco, the distance to Hawii is over 2300 miles, far beyond the range of any fighter in the inventory.

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(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 21

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 11:01:23 AM

MisterBAR

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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May I recommend, for the B-17 flights

Salecker, Gene Eric, FORTRESS AGAINST THE SUN: THE B-17 FLYING FORTRESS IN THE PACIFIC, Combined Press, 2001, 464p, 44 photos, 7 maps. Detailed accounting of the role of the B-17 in the Pacific War, especially the first few months. A must-have book for identifying the number and arrival times of the big bomber and the missions undertaken by its crews. Available from new book stores.

I have this and there is a whole chapter covering the scheduling of the flight and details of their arrival amidst the attacks. I need to dig out my copy, but basically - there is absolutely NOTHING to suggest ANYTHING but coincidence.

Not as directly related but also useful

Craven, Wesley Frank and James Lea Cate, THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: PLANS AND EARLY OPERATIONS JANUARY 1939 TO AUGUST 1942, U.S. Government Printing Office, 1983, 788p, 62 photos, 31 maps, 3 appendices. A reprint of the original 1948 edition, this volume includes four chapters covering the loss of the Philippines and Java and the defense of Australia in the early months of the war. Written so soon after the war, it suffers from inaccuracies. Available used.

Shores, Christopher, Brian Cull & Yasuho Izawa, BLOODY SHAMBLES, Grub Street, 1992 and 1993, 392p + 494p, 133 + 203 photos, 4 + 5 maps, 21 + 23 tables. The source for air operations over the Philippines, Malaya, Java, Burma and Australia through May 1942. If air operations are of interest to you, this is a must-buy. The composition, location and operations of individual squadrons can be followed through the opening of the Pacific War in the Far East.

Information copied from here:
http://www.avalanchepress.com/StrikeSouthBiblio.php

But I am very much in agreement with the opinions expressed on all the books by this site.

By the way, the original poste's other historical facts are just as inaccurate as his "FDR oredered the radar out of Hawaii." He deserves to be on block and ignore; if you listen to him you are in serious danger of being misled and/or fooled.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 22

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 11:03:00 AM

Rule

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Joined: 12/5/2005
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Oké. Thanks for the information.

I found that it was Gen. Douglas MacArthur that required the bombers. I will investigate him. As well as Short.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 23

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 11:07:26 AM

caitlyn

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To be honest, I'm relying on a vague memory of a discussion in a class a few years ago ... so I might not be entirely accurate.

I would suggest that some of the other posters here have better information.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 24

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 11:18:44 AM

Rule

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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterBAR
there is a whole chapter covering the scheduling of the flight and details of their arrival amidst the attacks. I need to dig out my copy, but basically - there is absolutely NOTHING to suggest ANYTHING but coincidence.

Thank you for the information and for your conclusion.

There is such a thing as information overload, so I will stick to as little information as required. As for conclusions: I will make up my own mind, thank you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterBAR
He deserves to be on block and ignore; if you listen to him you are in serious danger of being misled and/or fooled.

If he was on block I would have missed the information you and JW and caitlyn provided, wouldn't I? Besides, he says interesting things. If only he would be more specific...
And besides: I do not believe anyone unless I have reason to do so. If anyone tells me that the sun is square, I will go out and verify that claim first.

(in reply to MisterBAR)

Post #: 25

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 2:32:43 PM

NakisisaX

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

quote:

Hopefully a nice natural disaster would make the playing field level again and this time there won't be a "discovery" of a new world and culture while wiping them off the map ala columbus.

what the hell is wrong with culture? culture is AWESOME. So unique and fascinating. Wish the united states would have more.

Nothing is wrong with culture, if it survives its "discovery" by another culture. Next thing we know we're buying it at wal-mart and putting it in our houses.

_____________________________

"In times of peace, show no aggression. In times of war, show no mercy."

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 26

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 3:27:41 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Naked, I never claimed not to be a racist, I claim not to be bigot. The reason for the OP was the use of one word in another post which put people in a frenzy. Look at the activity.

It is OK with me, I would rather know than not know.

Level, I have had a few discussions with my non-pork-eating lawyer. We think we could've beat the RIAA in the Napster case. I am serious.

Pretty much everybody, yes I have started something here. At first I thought I didn't want to, but in retrospect I am glad I did. I hope, very much that after this we can realize that a racial reference is not a slur, and even if one is, we can take it in stride and respond intelligently to prove our worth.

I told you I am Polack.

How many Polacks does it take to change a lightbulb ? Five, one to hold it and four to turn the ladder. HA HA.

That was then. This is now.

It takes one Polack to change a lightbulb, and he gets a four hour minimum at $43.55 per hour. Two hours later he gets another $174.20 at the next job. Then the afternoon comes.

Perhaps his Wife made paprikash for his lunch, but it is worth it, he brings home $696.80 a day, minus taxes. Polacks love sourcream, and I can tell you from personal experience. Don't even make those halubkis without it.

Respond in kind. Of course you need to stick up for yourself, I do.

I would like to see people lighten up, this shit drives us apart. Remember it was only one word in the beginning. History is a different story, because it has shaped the world into the pitiful morass it is now. I am talking here and now, did I insult somebody ? If so say so, perhaps insult me. Do it.

Who has done what over the years is important, but it has no bearing on our discussion here, that is in the here and now, how we handle it, how we treat each other.

Or is it so bad that by praising a Jew I have insulted Gentiles ? That is pretty far fetched. Just how careful do you want to be. I think we should see these words for what they are, words.

What say you ?

T

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 27

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 3:39:33 PM

candystripper

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Joined: 11/1/2005
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This poster is offended by the Op's post -- never expected to see the "N" word here -- and is a ferocious bigot-hater. If W/we are all entitled to O/our opinions, i find it racist to refer to someone's ethnicity in connection with anything other than a discussion of what has been contributed, or suffered, or in a self-depreciating way (although even the polish jokes offended me).

i am not especially pc, but i think this topic is offensive to M/many and the Op is saying W/we who find it so are not entitled to O/our sensibilities.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 5/22/2006 3:46:04 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 28

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 3:51:43 PM

NastyDaddy

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Joined: 9/8/2004
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From racism to Pearl Harbor coincidences, you just can't be offended enough eh?

Getting back to racism, what about all those awful racist foods we just can't seem to get enough of...

Many won't offend you upfront, while coming back later to remind you of their hideous presence, like Polish sausage does some.

Here comes the others... Italian sausage, Jimmy Dean sausage (supremacist food?), German wurst sausage (reverse psych?)... where will it all end?

These damn racist foods often create a lot of gall... some even do the Bill Gates hijack/get there first thing... claiming cuisine exclusivity over cuisine shared with other cultures, such as 'Soul food'!

OMG, if one was not from Missouri, one could get Clyde on all this racist bull in a NY minute...

(in reply to NakisisaX)

Post #: 29

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 4:11:23 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
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Hey John,
You, Rule and Caitlyn are like the serious adults trying to have a serious conversation around unruly poorly mannered kids given the OP's words, lol.
http://www.collarchat.com/Child_support/m_381960/tm.htm
http://www.collarchat.com/m_333652/mpage_1/tm.htm#334764
http://www.collarchat.com/m_356992/mpage_1/tm.htm#362441
http://www.collarchat.com/m_231826/mpage_1/tm.htm#235777

Termin8or there are good drugs for your condition, and you should seek help. I don't remember the medical term for sick paranoid fuck, and I might have the name wrong, but I know a good psychiatrist could help you. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 30

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 4:26:09 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Blk, so your answer is drugs ? Obviously you KNOW you haven't a prayer of making your case.

Go ahead with the pills, I guess it really is 1984, forever.

Convince me of something, anything, I dare you.

T

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Post #: 31

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 4:39:06 PM

MistressLorelei

Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

From racism to Pearl Harbor coincidences, you just can't be offended enough eh?

Getting back to racism, what about all those awful racist foods we just can't seem to get enough of...

Many won't offend you upfront, while coming back later to remind you of their hideous presence, like Polish sausage does some.

Here comes the others... Italian sausage, Jimmy Dean sausage (supremacist food?), German wurst sausage (reverse psych?)... where will it all end?

These damn racist foods often create a lot of gall... some even do the Bill Gates hijack/get there first thing... claiming cuisine exclusivity over cuisine shared with other cultures, such as 'Soul food'!

OMG, if one was not from Missouri, one could get Clyde on all this racist bull in a NY minute...

How sad that types of sausage are being compared to racism... like racism is some kind of joke. Polish person, polish sausage... no problem. Additionally a food is a food, if you don't like sausage you are not racist, if you don't like polish sausage you are not a racist. Ethnic cuisine is ethnic cuisine, not something with unique human characteristics.

However...

'I have known some Jewish people who were good/bad/'fill in the blank', You are Jewish, therefore you must be 'good/bad/'fill in the blank' is generalizing. Thinking that any one stereotyped characteristic fits an entire group of people is ridiculous, racist, and sad.

I would have thought that a group of people (Bdsm lifestylers) who are stereotyped by the general public as being a bunch of unfit, social deviants because the public at large has never met any other kind, would realize that labels do not always fit.

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 5/22/2006 5:01:46 PM >

(in reply to NastyDaddy)

Post #: 32

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 4:42:09 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Blk, so your answer is drugs ? Obviously you KNOW you haven't a prayer of making your case.
T

I know, you need the antipsychotics first, before we can try. Neverthless, you are blocked.

'N ta creba convenceu di nha manera, mas cu sorti by sta longi dimas pan trancau ferru. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 33

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 4:58:16 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

Hey John,
You, Rule and Caitlyn are like the serious adults trying to have a serious conversation around unruly poorly mannered kids given the OP's words, lol.

As I said in another notestream, I tend to prefer to deal with factual issues.

I'll add here that it is rarely necessary to sink a fool; they chop away at their own hull without any help from me

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Post #: 34

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 5:00:27 PM

NastyDaddy

Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei
How sad that types of sausage are being compared to racism... like racism is some kind of joke. Polish person, polish sausage... no problem. Additionally a food is a food, if you don't like sausage you are not racist, if you don't like polish sausage you are not a racist. Ethnic cuisine is ethnic cuisine, not something with unique human characteristics.

However...

'I have known some Jewish lawyers who were good/bad/'fill in the blank', You are a Jewish lawyer, therefore you must be 'good/bad/'fill in the blank' is generalizing. Thinking that any one stereotyped characteristic fits an entire group of people is ridiculous, racist, and sad.

I would have thought that a group of people (Bdsm lifestylers) who are stereotyped by the general public as being a bunch of unfit, social deviants because the public at large has never met any other kind, would realize that labels do not always fit.

The food post was a jestful poke at labels, but if it needs defending or criticism I'd guess the reader simply missed the point.

Often it is not the use of the label that offends, it is the interpretation of it's use by the reader or listener. Ethic labels seem to be perfectly acceptable in some cases while not at all in others, thus my rediculous post to basically ask why that be the case.

(in reply to MistressLorelei)

Post #: 35

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 5:13:51 PM

MistressLorelei

Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei
How sad that types of sausage are being compared to racism... like racism is some kind of joke. Polish person, polish sausage... no problem. Additionally a food is a food, if you don't like sausage you are not racist, if you don't like polish sausage you are not a racist. Ethnic cuisine is ethnic cuisine, not something with unique human characteristics.

However...

'I have known some Jewish lawyers who were good/bad/'fill in the blank', You are a Jewish lawyer, therefore you must be 'good/bad/'fill in the blank' is generalizing. Thinking that any one stereotyped characteristic fits an entire group of people is ridiculous, racist, and sad.

I would have thought that a group of people (Bdsm lifestylers) who are stereotyped by the general public as being a bunch of unfit, social deviants because the public at large has never met any other kind, would realize that labels do not always fit.

The food post was a jestful poke at labels, but if it needs defending or criticism I'd guess the reader simply missed the point.

Often it is not the use of the label that offends, it is the interpretation of it's use by the reader or listener. Ethic labels seem to be perfectly acceptable in some cases while not at all in others, thus my rediculous post to basically ask why that be the case.

Your post sounded no more ridiculous than the posts made by the OP and others who called their nonfounded labeling 'cultural truism'. My post was aimed not at the sausage, but at the OP and other labelers.

(in reply to NastyDaddy)

Post #: 36

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 7:56:06 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Apparently very few of you can understand. You don't see why I don't want a lawyer from Pakistan. You don't understand why I don't pine for a pizza from an Irishman. You don't see why I don't use a corporate lawyer for a criminal case. You don't see why I don't want a gyro made by a Frenchman.

I am going to put my knuckleguards on and go git me another sixpack. Build a couple of more crosses to burn. If that is what you think, I would hate to make a liar out of you.

If you can't stand the expression of any racial coherence whatsoever, we are truly ficked. That's where it starts. To deal with any other races you must first deal with your own, and mine is doomed.

Thank you for enlightening me.

Moderators, please delete this entire thread, it didn't do a bit of good. I wish I hadn't wasted my time.

T

(in reply to MistressLorelei)

Post #: 37

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 8:28:32 PM

subtlesubie

Posts: 138
Joined: 1/5/2006
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This thread is a CollarChat classic. Five different topics - every other post a non-sequiter - insults and indignation - moral rightousness (on kinky sex site!!!!) - all from an original post that had no point.

Don't you people have anything better to do?

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 38

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 9:07:08 PM

candystripper

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Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

imho, there is nothing "better" to do than to fight racism whenever and wherever it rears its ugly head......and as i said, i NEVER expected to see the "N" word here. That alone makes me madder than hell.

candystripper

(in reply to subtlesubie)

Post #: 39

RE: Racism - 5/22/2006 9:17:41 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

How about this weather we are having ...

This whole thread is about as disfunctional as my last three boyfriends.

Ok ... maybe not that bad.

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 40

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