Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods)

Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (Full Version)

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CreepyStalker -> Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/13/2011 7:07:32 PM)
I really don't understand kink labels, they don't make any sense to me. I know what they mean in literal terms, but I've never gotten my head around how to apply them. What are they actually supposed to denote? Behaviours? Tendencies? Experiences? Desires? Current status? Ideals? I'd have an entirely different label for each of those. Yes yes, I know, labelling is by its very nature doing a disservice to the multifariousness of a person. Even if I had one answer, still don't know which of those things my one answer would be there to represent though. I'm curious as to what other people's perception of this is. I want to know what precisely you're trying to convey with your choice of label and what you infer about other people from theirs. Which of those aspects I mentioned (or others, obviously) changing would be sufficient to make you change your choice of label? Which of those aspects would you prioritise if the labels applicable to them were vastly discrepant with each other? Did you ever go through a (newbie?) phase of fluctuating identities or not having a label until you decided upon one? If so what factor cemented your decision? What is your gut feeling about how to identify yourself? (Please no wishy-washy nonsense about how labels are oppressive and we should all be free. Whatever happens I sticking with my beautifully vague 'kinkster' non-label anyway.)

DesFIP -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/13/2011 7:16:46 PM)
The purpose of a label is to convey some basic information to others who don't yet know you. In general, to others you might want to have a relationship with so as to determine if there's sufficient compatibility to begin a conversation. They're a starting point only. My desires aren't at odds with my tendencies. So I can't really imagine prioritizing. However if my past experiences were different than what I now wanted, I'd describe who I am now. Since no one talking with me is going to start a relationship with the person I was twenty years ago.

Endivius -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/13/2011 7:34:21 PM)
A label is generally used to isolate a description of a person in order to create an association of said individual. If you know someone of any particular color, and tried to describe that person in detail without mentioning thier race, it is much more difficult to reach the association another person may have created. It is not always proper, and is often a basis for fueling racisim, sexism, and other forms of bigotry; at times it can be usefull though. However, I do my best to avoid negatively labeling anyone individual unless I'm pissed off and verbally ripping them a new one. People use BDSM as a label to associate people who practice a sexual lifestyle outside of normal society, wich is commonly refered to as "vanilla"; another label. This does not make either labels bigotous in nature, only the context of the discussion in wich the label is used can do that. Labeling people and thier activities is quite ordinary, and required in order to create an association with anything. If you know someone who is; for example, highly active in rock climbing, you might call them a climber. This is a label. Just as it is a label to say a person is kinky or hyper. It isn't the labels that are offensive, rather the context in wich they are used. There are some labels however; that are offensive in nature, because of the harsh undertones in wich they convey a certain association that is not politcally correct, or extremely negative. An example would be the N word to describe any black individual. It is negative in association because of the history of racism, horror, and suffering that many blacks over the course of three hundred years experienced at the hands of other races. I do not change my labels based on what other people think or do. I have my own beliefs for what is and is not acceptable when describing people and thier activities. As it says in my profile, I live by The Golden Rule. If you are courteous and can speak with a calm and direct tone, people are far more likely to recieve what you say objectively than subjectively. And if they cannot accept what I have to say, I probably have no interest in what they have to say back. I have no problems with an exchange of ideas, and often I participate in such discussions. I do have a problem with people believing that I should conform to thier beliefs. It won't happen, and I am not generally patient when someone attempts to do so. Follow your moral compass and you should be fine. The only label I have ever hung on to is being a Marine. It is not so much that I take some kind of brainwashed mentality from the years in the service, as a truth I have discovered over the last few years being out of the service. You never stop being a Marine. It's sort of a cliche, but having been on both sides of the line, I understand now what that means and the why of it. It doesn't bother me in the least, although there are times when I struggle with civilians, especially when I see them doing some boneheaded stuff that I could make them stop doing if they were in a uniform. We constantly grow as humans, changing ideas and beliefs, and because of that, I think the labels we used to identify ourselves and others also change. Not all of them, certainly some though. Edit to address the questions you added.

anniezz338 -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/13/2011 7:36:54 PM)
Yes, a place to start. Like the genders, male and female, breaking it further down as you go to get the details (hair color, height, body frame, etc.) I love that avatar... makes me want to go get the mower out.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/13/2011 7:41:03 PM)
Behaviours? Top/Bottom/Switch Tendencies? Dom/Switch/Sub Experiences? Don't see how that applies at all Desires? See above Current status? See above Ideals? Maybe Master/Slave but that's a bit of a stretch, I personally think they represent a style more than anything else really. I think of Hanners as a dominant switch mistress, and myself as a submissive switch slave. By this I mean that Hanners is the one who leads the relationship <dominant/submissive>, we both take turns topping and bottoming <switch>, and our dynamic is based on the premise that I obey, in all things, my only "right" is a veto that ends the dynamic. <mistress/slave>

akisha -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/13/2011 8:35:07 PM)
If we didn't use lables of some sort it would be pretty damn hard to meet with someone or play with someone. If i walked up to you at a play party and said "Hi would you like to role play with me?" but didn't tell you that I'm a submissive masochist, how would you know if we were compatible in our desires of play? Basic lables convey atleast some information about what we are into. If I just said I'm into BDSM that tells you dick all about what I am into. But if I say hey, I'm a submissive masochist then you know I want you to be in control and I like forms of pain. It gives us a starting point on which we can further discuss possible interactions. Lables are a neccessary evil.

Awareness -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 2:22:25 AM)
Look, this is really, really simple. Labels are a way to classify people into a symbology our minds can deal with so we have a basic guide on how to deal with them. It's the semantics of thought in action. You're over-thinking this shit. Yes. Really.

PeonForHer -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 2:29:08 AM)
I don't see that, Awareness. This is not the usual sort of question about labels - it goes to the question of motives for choosing one's label. I've noticed a big difference between people on that at CM, for instance.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 2:32:12 AM)
quote: You're over-thinking this shit. Yes. Really. And it seems you're under thinking things. [:D]

LadyPact -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 3:03:31 AM)
I try to make this as simple as I can. It's not perfect or universal. Just the quick guide to interactions with Me. I am a top. This has everything to do with activities that I might engage in. I am a Dominant. This is about My personality and My preference for being in control. I am a Mistress. This is about My deeper relationship with another person. I am a leather person. This is about the way that I interact with the community. I am a sadist. This is about the fact that I get My jollies hurting other people. From the outside, someone else might see Me as one of these or all of these. I suppose what I'm saying here is that I don't attempt to judge Myself through another person's eyes. No different than the 'nilla world, really. In that realm, I'm mother, sister, daughter, friend, etc. Yes, it really does depend on how they see Me. I've never had to define Myself in those non kink situations. The people in My life already knew. If you don't get caught up in it, you probably know, too.

Awareness -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 3:27:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: You're over-thinking this shit. Yes. Really. And it seems you're under thinking things. [:D] If I want to hear from an idiot, I'll summon you. Until then, go play with someone who'll give you the time of day.

Awareness -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 3:37:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I don't see that, Awareness. This is not the usual sort of question about labels - it goes to the question of motives for choosing one's label. I've noticed a big difference between people on that at CM, for instance. No, the problem is that the OP is attempting to rationalise labels as a perfect descriptive syntax with an underlying teleology. In actual fact they're self-chosen vague approximations using the mind's symbology of the moment. The shared symbols with approximate meanings into which we cram our self-apprehended identities. It's the kind of question I'd expect from someone with Asperger's Syndrome.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 3:39:35 AM)
I'd go with a combination of behaviours and current status. Current status: in all honesty I raise an internal eyebrow at a self-proclaimed master/mistress who is single (and people will please not jump on me for that - like I said, internal. This is my own personal feeling.) There are some labels I think you have to be actively doing something/being something to someone else to use. Behaviours: maybe I'd be picky and change that to 'interactions'. In my opinion the most important thing is how a person reacts to other people. Dominantly? Dominant. Submissively? Submissive. Both, depending on time/person/the phase of the moon/whatever? Switch. Masochistically? Bottom. Sadistically? Top. &c &c That system leaves the freedom for people to have different labels depending on who they're interacting with, which is important for me as a dominant top who is sadistic but also masochistic.

PeonForHer -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 3:41:36 AM)
[:D] I'll say this for you: when you do 'grumpy', you do it well.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 3:43:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness No, the problem is that the OP is attempting to rationalise labels as a perfect descriptive syntax with an underlying teleology. I think that actually you're the one overthinking the question. It's possible to struggle with labels, not because you think they ought to be a perfect descriptor, but because people hear whatever label you've chosen as closest to you and then infer all sorts of things that aren't there. You've never had that problem? Fine. But it's a very human, very interaction-based problem that many non-autistic people struggle with.

Awareness -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 4:01:35 AM)
That's pretty much my entire point. Every shallow interaction we have with people gives them a very coarsely-grained idea of the reality of who we are. Self-chosen identifiers give very vague general ideas about us, but depend upon both our self-awareness - in terms of choosing one which could be objectively said to be apt - and the baggage attached to that label by the listener. That's simply the reality of human communication and most people understand that really knowing someone comes through association and a certain level of insight. I mentioned Aspergers because the question appears to originate from a place of wanting an absolute precision which flies in the face of social reality. It wasn't an insult, simply an observation.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 4:08:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Self-chosen identifiers give very vague general ideas about us, but depend upon both our self-awareness - in terms of choosing one which could be objectively said to be apt - and the baggage attached to that label by the listener. So then the questions 'what parameters are you using to choose your objectively apt label and what baggage do you attach to other people's labels?' are fair ones. Because to someone whose labels according to all the factors she's listed above all cohere, the answer is obvious. To someone whose labels conflict, it isn't. quote: I mentioned Aspergers because the question appears to originate from a place of wanting an absolute precision which flies in the face of social reality. It wasn't an insult, simply an observation. I didn't take it as an insult; I just think it's incorrect. Think of it as a queer cultural thing; thinking about labels is what we do. It's compulsory, or they revoke your membership and you have to go back to being mono or bisexual. <readability edit>

Kana -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 5:34:55 AM)
Quick thoughts 1-Labels are used by lazy minded people as a shortcut way of dovetailing things. 2-It seems to me that for whatever reason, Americans are obsessed with labels. 3-People are incredibly complex, contradictory, constantly both disappointing and astonishing and way way way too complicated to be defined by any simple generic term. 4-So you wanna label me, look under Kana. Anything else sells me, and the labeler, short and does us both a disservice.

DesFIP -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 6:16:25 AM)
I don't know Kana. Both beef stew and peaches are canned foods, but without the label you're in for one hell of a surprise if you open a can and don't get what you were hoping for.

Kana -> RE: Kink Identity Labels (Serious thread- please don't panic and move it, mods) (9/14/2011 6:29:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I don't know Kana. Both beef stew and peaches are canned foods, but without the label you're in for one hell of a surprise if you open a can and don't get what you were hoping for. True. But labeling still doesn't begin to describe the taste, feel, texture and sensation of the foods. In fact, you kinda back up my argument. Labels like that tell you what the item is, maybe some nutritional value (which may or may not be deceptive, I mean have you ever looked at what a "normal" serving size is), a picture that looks nothing like the content and quickly conveys a very narrow limited range of information about whatever the contents are. But labels, unless you count fluffery and advertising, won't tell you that Johnny Walker Blue is the bomb and Old Crow is rotgut.

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