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Alpha males - 9/13/2011 11:19:29 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Are alpha males healthy?

The Wall street journal ran this article today about the health risks of being an alpha male. Apparently the adrenaline from constantly feeling they are competing is detrimental to alphas' health. Apparently it is much healthier to be a beta male.
So Masters, do you generally consider yourself to be alpha males? Do you feel like you always have to be number one? And finally, for the Dominant Sadists, do you think you might enjoy rough play because it helps burn off the adrenaline you build up in the course of your daily life?

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RE: Alpha males - 9/13/2011 11:23:07 PM   
Endivius


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Interesting article. Probably won't change anything though. I like who I am. Maybe being a sadomasochist will keep me alive longer, and then by the time I'm 80 or so I can gather up all the free subs and live out my days in paradise.

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RE: Alpha males - 9/13/2011 11:25:56 PM   
JanahX


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I tend to like and am naturally drawn to Alphas ... but tend to do better with Omegas.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=omega%20male

< Message edited by JanahX -- 9/13/2011 11:31:24 PM >


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RE: Alpha males - 9/13/2011 11:34:30 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Apparently the adrenaline from constantly feeling they are competing is detrimental to alphas' health. Apparently it is much healthier to be a beta male.

I've never thought of myself as a "beta" male, but I've never felt a need to compete against somebody either.

My job is to live up to my own standards.

K.

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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 2:35:44 AM   
WCPD09


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I would definitely consider myself an Alpha male but not sure thats always about being number one. Yes, there is a certain competitive nature that is just a part of who I am and there is no question I'd rather win than lose (whatever that means), but there is also an acceptance of reality that it simply can't be that way always. Doesn't mean its easy to stop trying though. As for the "release" you mentioned, as you might guess, there are many powerful men who need to give up control for that release. I'm not a Sadist, but my being dominant isn't something that turns off or on, its just me. Its natural so there the continuation to my personal life is also natural. Its just who I am.

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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 4:59:36 AM   
Focus50


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Mighty dominant that I am, I've never considered myself an alpha male. Or beta....

I fit best under "independent loner". By definition, alpha's require a posse. Now if I'm stuck in a group situation, I'm happy to just go with the flow for as long as it's working or suits me. I don't even care if someone in that group feels the need to be alpha - right up until they start projecting their shit at me.

I do have to be "number one" in my personal relationships, though. Me and a posse of one....

As for health, I'm about to turn 57 and my GP recently described me as being in "obscenely good health". And I do like that I sleep very well at nights....

Focus.


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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 5:26:03 AM   
Buzzzz


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I don't consider myself an alpha male . or beta for that matter. I am just me. You would have to ask my kinky friends to see what they think of me (or maybe I should do that , just for kicks!!).

AS far as the sadist in me, I don't think I build up on adrenaline during the day, so that isn't the reason. I am a sadist cos it turns me on (get hard) to inflict pain on a willing subject. It doesn't work on casual play either. I need to have a connection with that person , and then it brings me to "top space".

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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 6:32:04 AM   
DesFIP


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Actually Janah, the ones that sneak in during and have sex with the unsuspecting female are beta males. Any study of chimpanzees will tell you that.

My father's a retired CEO. I never saw any of the behavior mentioned in that article among him and his friends. And yes, he was friends with many other CEOs, a few heads of (small) states, etc.


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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 6:51:35 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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The wsj article referred to this as beta behavior. In baboons, anyway, the beta go just as many females, but with far less stress.
quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

I tend to like and am naturally drawn to Alphas ... but tend to do better with Omegas.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=omega%20male


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 9:06:30 AM   
JanahX


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I kinda liked these definitions:

Alpha Male

The term 'Alpha Male' can be defined in both a classical and modern sense. The classical definition derives from the animal kingdom and represents a physical form of dominance over other males. The alpha male lion, for example, claims sexual rights to all females, fights off other male lions to enforce it, eats first after every hunt and dominates a vast territory of land for hunting rights.

In a modern/human sense, younger males (teens, early 20s) will subscribe to the classical form. Like a lion, they will often be the strongest, most intimidating, hit on all of the women beta males want, are usually the first to have new sexual experiences and often dominate a set territory in thier 'hunt' for new women, such as local nightclub scenes.

Older alpha males, however, will evolve the classical traits of stength, intimidation and dominance beyond the physical by gaining power over men through thier very means of living and professional reputation. A powerful business executive, for example, will hire, promote, demote and fire others according to how well they serve his own interests. Rock stars, famous actors and other individuals of 'power' hold very simular capabilities over others in thier respective professions.


Beta Male

In the animal kingdom, the alpha male is the dominant member of the community. He’s like a cartoon caveman, commanding deference. The betas are wingmen, collaborative and conciliatory. In human terms, betas make the best mates. They do more in the house, and probably in the bedroom.

An unremarkable, careful man who avoids risk and confrontation. Beta males lack the physical presence, charisma and confidence of the Alpha male.
A totally typical male. Most definitions here are wrong: betas aren't particularly sensitive or even meek, they just are much more follower than leader.

Plenty of insecure, pushy, loud guys are betas: most frat boys (especially the toady), most Ivy Leaguers, most football players, most Tea Partiers, most suburbanites, most rednecks, etc. Since they 1) don't have followers they aren't alphas and 2) don't have much of a mind of their own aren't gammas.

A man that is unsure what to do next, yet willing to do it, whatever it may be. Usually a man that is waiting for direction from a woman because he is under the delusion that he will get a lifetime of pussy for being there for her, whenever, where ever...essentially missing the point of being a man.


Gamma Male

Male who avoids pack mentallity.
A Gamma Male is the third step down in the hierarchical taxonomy of the male sex, directly below a Beta Male and fathoms below an Alpha male. A Gamma Male unconsciously adopts or duplicates female behaviors, values, or expectations in the hopes of winning female admiration. He does this because he is too paralyzingly timid to attempt to directly win the affections of female through the Alpha Male traits of confidence and swagger.

The Gamma Male never appears confident or comfortable with whom he is. In a relationship with a female, he acts like one of her girlfriends. Further, the Gamma Male is wont to show his "feelings" in a cringe worthy manner, bringing audible sighs of shock and disgust from even the most unassertive and passive Beta Males. In comparison to other males of higher evolutionary development, he is a pitiful creature.


Omega male

The polar opposite of the Alpha Male. Omega Males can have friends and close acquaintances but prefer to accomplish things on their own without the help of a group. Omega Males generally don't belong to any cliques and have no desire to be the leader or most outstanding of said clique. Omega Males have relations with people from all groups and carry a resourcefulness and cunning (sometimes strength) to get a job done with their own skill. This being said, an omega male can have great pride without it manifesting as "ego." (There are always exceptions.

An Alpha Male MUST absolutely be perceived by his peers as the toughest, most popular, and smartest. An Omega Male cares little for this recognition...but knows that he is all those things and more.

Alpha males must have the support of his "boys." This can be the foundation for many shallow and superficial relationships. An Omega Male needs support from time to time, but has few true friends who know him intimately and generally shuns shallow acquaintences.

Omega is a logical choice, when faced with the problem of describing people who are clearly not subservient to an alpha yet cannot be described as an alpha themselves, There is no set criteria for an Omega, the sole common trait is one of being a rogue social wander who avoids binding attachments generally rejects social hierarchy treating everyone equally based on personal judgment, and refuses to be drawn into tribalistic feuds between groups of people


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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 9:30:35 AM   
MtGames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

I kinda liked these definitions:



Other than the definition for Alpha, those are so far off from the standard definitions as to be essentially unrelated to them.
Classic definitions from study of wolf packs and similar:

Beta
Second in command, generally pretty dominant but willing to put up with someone else above them in the heirarchy.  At least for now.
Beta wolves may leave the pack to form a new pack with them as the Alpha, or may become the Alpha when the previous Alpha gets too old to hold their position.  In human terms, a Beta is a strong dominant, but not the strongest in their group.  A Beta in one group might be the Alpha of a smaller group.

Omega
The individual at the bottom of the pecking order, in wolf packs this is likely the weakest and dumbest of the wolves, and the last one to get to eat at a kill.  sucks to be them.  In humans, this would be a sub that other subs boss around.

There is no standard definition for Gamma, in this context.


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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 9:52:10 AM   
JanahX


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I didnt realize we were talking about wolves or gorrillas or animals for that matter ... sorry---> ME BAD.

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The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 9:58:31 AM   
DesFIP


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Would you quote your source for those definitions?

But I wouldn't compare a male who sneaks in and rapes a female as being equivalent to someone who prefers martial arts to football myself.


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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 11:34:54 AM   
Epytropos


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I find that whole idea limiting. It barely works for non-pack social animals (IE dolphins, lower primates), and human interactions are a thousand times more complex.

On the one hand I quite enjoy being the most important and well-thought-of member of a group, I live for competition, and I'm mostly comfortable in group situations. At the same time, though, I also go through prolonged periods of isolation in which I talk to virtually no one and never partake of group activities and I very commonly decline to compete if I feel the competition is meaningless or I'm simply not in the mood. If I'm playing a game or sport, not winning is not an option, but if a group of guys gets in a cock-measuring contest over their sex life or how much money they make or what they bench I tend to be vague and coy because it strikes me as rather infantile.

My friends tend to describe me variously as an alpha or an arrogant asshole, so take that for what it's worth.

As to wearing off adrenaline, that's not a thing. Adrenaline is not consumed by activity, it's simply absorbed over time. If anything exhilarating sexual experiences would worsen the negative impact of prolonged adrenaline exposure because sex stimulates adrenaline production. I do definitely prefer rough sex for the rush, though strictly speaking pure sadism is less a rush for me and more a calming, zen experience.


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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 1:29:09 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Most people who thump their chest loudest about the whole alpha male crap haven't had a recent biology course.

In nature, Alpha males are also frequently cuckholded...

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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 1:59:48 PM   
Focus50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

I didnt realize we were talking about wolves or gorrillas or animals for that matter ... sorry---> ME BAD.


Well yeah; we humans are a social animal rather than a pack animal. And we live our lives more on reason than instinct.

Though the terms 'Gamma' and 'Omega' in this context are new to me, by your definitions, this weak and dumb bottom feeder identifies most with Omega male. Still, I get that 'Omega' at least means last - which doesn't sound good in a pack situation, *IF* that's how humans lived.... lol

Focus.


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Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Alpha males - 9/14/2011 9:26:58 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Would you quote your source for those definitions?
Urban dictionary, I think.

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RE: Alpha males - 9/15/2011 12:55:07 PM   
Mr4sg


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Sounds like one of those researches akin to the "meat eaters are less social people than vegetarians".

Few months after that publication, the researcher got booted for faking research data. People read tendencies in everything. Under cover of science, basically, some are reading tea leaves and predicting the future from chicken bones. With extra science sauce. Extrapolations of data without knowing all the complexities of factors , or even knowing all the factors, is just bollocks.

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RE: Alpha males - 9/19/2011 8:09:14 PM   
Tristan


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quote:

Omega male

The polar opposite of the Alpha Male. Omega Males can have friends and close acquaintances but prefer to accomplish things on their own without the help of a group. Omega Males generally don't belong to any cliques and have no desire to be the leader or most outstanding of said clique. Omega Males have relations with people from all groups and carry a resourcefulness and cunning (sometimes strength) to get a job done with their own skill. This being said, an omega male can have great pride without it manifesting as "ego." (There are always exceptions.

An Alpha Male MUST absolutely be perceived by his peers as the toughest, most popular, and smartest. An Omega Male cares little for this recognition...but knows that he is all those things and more.

Alpha males must have the support of his "boys." This can be the foundation for many shallow and superficial relationships. An Omega Male needs support from time to time, but has few true friends who know him intimately and generally shuns shallow acquaintences.

Omega is a logical choice, when faced with the problem of describing people who are clearly not subservient to an alpha yet cannot be described as an alpha themselves, There is no set criteria for an Omega, the sole common trait is one of being a rogue social wander who avoids binding attachments generally rejects social hierarchy treating everyone equally based on personal judgment, and refuses to be drawn into tribalistic feuds between groups of people


I'm not sure how to describe myself, but I kind of like this description.  I always tended to be the oddball who never really fit into any group, but was also never really an outcast either.  I tend to be fiercely competitive with one and only one person...myself.  I am often determined to do my absolute best on much of what interests me at the same time putting in little effort in what doesn't interest me.  I am comfortable taking control, but have little interest in dominating anyone except maybe in the bedroom.

I have very high confidence, and manage others in my job.  I listen, understand the job requirements and scope of work, usually ask the right questions, and generally get what needs to be done with little stress or confrontation.  My health is very good. 

(in reply to Mr4sg)
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