RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 4:14:31 AM)

each day hundreds of people have their heads beheaded- over dissing the quran.




StrangerThan -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 4:22:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And whenever the crazy religious fundamentalists try to impose their religious law on everyone else, I get concerned.

quote:


In Mississippi last week, the state Supreme Court rejected a lawsuit to stop a ballot measure (Amendment 26) defining a person as the moment of fertilization. The implications of the ballot measure are that abortion, contraception, in vitro fertilization, and stem cell research could be rendered illegal if the initiative passes. Mississippi’s highest court ruled 7-2 against stopping the initiative and said it did not have the power to review ballot initiatives before the vote takes place. However, in refusing to stop the ballot measure, the court revealed that it will uphold the proposed constitutional amendment when it passes. There is little doubt the ballot initiative will pass because Mississippi has the largest percentage (82%) of Christians in the country. Not surprising is that of 9 justices, 7 profess Christianity as their religion on the MSS official website.


http://www.politicususa.com/en/personhood-democracy



Told ya Mississippi was next.

But fuck, I didn't stick it under a sensationalized topic.




mnottertail -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 4:22:45 AM)

Well, seriously, what else would one behead?




Aylee -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 6:26:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

He is using the word "Sharia" to point out the hypocrisy of fundies screaming and fretting about the threat of Koran-based law and how that would be counter to everything America stands for while at the same time trying to impose their own Bible-based law.

Is there any basis in the Bible for the notion that "personhood" begins at conception?

K.



My guess is Jeremiah 1:5 :

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." (NIV)

Psalm 139:13 :

"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb." (NIV)

Psalm 139:16 :

"your eyes saw my unformed body." (NIV)

Luke 1:35

"The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God." (NIV)

~ Mary was not knocked up yet, so the Spook is calling the embryo holy.

Here is a link to the Warnock Inquiry Report for you: http://www.scribd.com/doc/48298002/Warnock-Report-of-the-Committee-of-Inquiry-into-Human-Fertilisation-and-Embryology-1984

I really do not have the energy to find the Catholic report.

Frankly one of the issues that no one talks about regarding all of this is how do we as a people/culture/society change when changes in technology and medical knowledge come about. For a long, long time, the only way to control reproduction and fertility was to control the entire woman. That is no longer true. So, how should our body of laws and our views of them change? Also, with this change, how should we view and judge those who lived before us?

As far as 'God' goes. IIRC, he was not so much into abortion as really digging on the infanticide. Abortion seems a lot cleaner and neater in comparison.




Real0ne -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 8:33:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

(3) The word "person" includes individuals, children, firms, associations, joint adventures, partnerships, estates, trusts, business trusts, syndicates, fiduciaries, corporations, and all other groups or combinations. NOTE HOWEVER, THE DEFINITIONS STATUTE DOES NOT LIST “MAN” OR “WOMAN” – THEREFORE THEY ARE EXCLUDED FROM ALL THE LEGISLATIVE STATUTES!!!

Gee, I could have sworn that men and women were "individuals."

K.




Every "legal entity" is a "person". The person belongs to the one that created it. The person is a transmitting utility, designated to perform a special duty or fulfill a specific purpose, unattached from it's creator/owner.  <- of course the only one in the world that is respected in law is the king.


quote:


"The law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will.

[It, the legal entity is an "IT" not a man or woman.  So if your IT is the legal entity yet they throw your body in prison if the "it" stood trial and not you?  Hey its "their" distinction not mine! LOL]

This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by the Author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance." --Thomas Jefferson: Legal Argument, 1770. FE 1:376

See what they did here?  LOL


In law, PERSONALITY means capacity of having, acquiring and exercising rights, using the term in its widest sense.  A legal person is an entity having interest which the law recognizes and secures, or, as it is commonly put, a subject of rights.  The type is the individual human being, as a natural person, and in modern law every human being, as a natural person has also a legal personality.   Juristic personality begins when the legal requirements for recognition of a group of associates as a legal person have been fulfilled, and the law in consequence clothes the association with the capacity of exercising a legal control over or influence upon the acts of othersNatural personality, the legal personality of the individual human being, begins upon birth and survival of birth.


This is all color of law.  In other words abstract bullshit for the most part.  Capacity determines rank essentially of your legal person.



Now title 18 defines those who presumably "chose" to be under the control and subject to the united states corporate "person".

quote:

TITLE 1 > CHAPTER 1 > § 8 § 8. “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant  (a) In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.   (b) As used in this section, the term “born alive”, with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsionor extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.   (c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being “born alive” as defined in this section.     http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode01/usc_sec_01_00000008----000-.html 


Of course it goes without saying they have no legitimate authority to claim or define anyone as a person.

Legitimate authority comes by contract.

the word individual in "lego land" is used to differentiate between body corporate and body singular.

The rights spoke of in the DOI are largely disposed of when you enter into contract under tha constitution which of course the "state" claims they have have the right to force you to do, see the abrahamson case.

.



[image]local://upfiles/59055/21E2FE6243E24C69B5EF3DB18600F2D3.jpg[/image]


oh and "Chief" has the same rank as KING, such as the commander "in-chief", chief's and kins are "recognized" sovereigns.

Neither of whom are personally suable, you can only sue one of their corporation trusts.


birthers you reading this?










mnottertail -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 9:12:44 AM)

That is fucking typically retarded asswipe.

No factuality whatsoever.




Fightdirecto -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 11:56:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
He is using the word "Sharia" to point out the hypocrisy of fundies screaming and fretting about the threat of Koran-based law and how that would be counter to everything America stands for while at the same time trying to impose their own Bible-based law.

Is there any basis in the Bible for the notion that "personhood" begins at conception?
K.

One of the many things I learned growing up a PK (Preacher's Kid) is that many Christians, many non-Christians, and many anti-Christians are Biblically illiterate (but then, many Christians and anti-Moslems are illiterate when it comes to the Koran and many Christians and most anti-Semites are illiterate when it comes to the Thalmud).

Most people, sadly, deep down inside want someone else to do their thinking and their research for them. People in my Dad's congregation would often ask him, "What does the Bible say about //fill in the blank//?" and my Dad would say, "As a Christian you should be reading your Bible. Look it up. " And some would get offended that he won't give them the answer and do the research work for them.

Or they would say something like "The Lord helps those who help themselves. It's in the Bible", and Dad would say "No, it's not in the Bible - it's a line from a hymn written by John Wesley." And some would respond, "But I heard Pat Robertson say it on the The 700 Club and he said it was a teaching of Jesus Christ" - because it was easier for them to believe what a TV preacher said than for them to take the time to look it up in their own Bible.

I once encountered an atheist who declaimed, "The Bible says such-and-such, and that's stupid". When I asked her where in the Bible it could be found, she said, "Sam Harris said the Bible says it in his book, The End of Faith. As for me, I have never read the Bible and never plan to. Why should I bother reading fiction, since Sam Harris already did the research?"




Real0ne -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 1:00:29 PM)

I promise I wont do that again!  [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/free-fighting-smileys-3951.gif[/image]honest!




Moonhead -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 1:04:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, seriously, what else would one behead?


Ask Rule.
[;)]




MileHighM -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 1:11:39 PM)

That could be said for //Fill in Blank// ideolgy as well. How many tea partiers have read the constitution, Smith, Burke, federalist papers, etc etc. How many progressives have read the constitution, Marx, Rousseau, Zinn etc etc. People often argue recycled garbage fed to them by media sources.

What's just as bad is how many people argue thier position without knowing the other guys... How many cons have read Marx, How many libs have Hayek?

Most people are lazy hacks, they want to know what to believe not why to believe.

I think it is best to evolve ones ideas over time, try not to be married to a ideological identity.




Moonhead -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 1:16:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM
How many cons have read Marx

Nobody who's claiming teh Kenyan is a Marxist, for a start...

(I confess I haven't read Hayek meself, but I have gone through Rand, Friedman, Mitford, MacDonald and a bit of Schicklegruber...)




MileHighM -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 2:07:09 PM)

I wasn't... What are you getting at?




calamitysandra -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 2:18:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

each day hundreds of people have their heads beheaded- over dissing the quran.



I know I am showing an frightening amount of naivety just by asking, but anyway:
Any chance that you could provide some sources for your assertion? 




Aylee -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 2:24:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

try not to be married to a ideological identity.


But we LOVE each other! If you keep standing in our way like this, we will just elope!




Moonhead -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 2:27:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

I wasn't... What are you getting at?

Just a response to your "the right ain't read that, the left ain't read this", comment. Not a criticism, I just thought I'd better be honest and admit that I hadn't read the other name you dropped.




MileHighM -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 2:31:19 PM)

I was talking about your kenyan comment... Was implying he was a marxist?




Moonhead -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 2:37:40 PM)

I'm not (he strikes me as a right leaning centrist American and/or a high tory British just like the chimp) and I wasn't implying that you were, but there's plenty on here who insist that he is too a Marxist and has a sinister leftist agenda to turn America into the late USSR. Sorry I didn't make that clear.




Masta808 -> RE: "Personhood" movement is Christian-Sharia Law... (9/15/2011 5:41:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

each day hundreds of people have their heads beheaded- over dissing the quran.



Its because NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!




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