RE: How safe are GMO's? (Full Version)

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SternSkipper -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 3:45:48 PM)

quote:


In recognition of the NE/SD game and your post I had a New Bedford/SoCal hybrid for lunch. Mexican (Portugese is too hard to find here) Chorizo and Clams. Awesome.


Edited Because I at fut first couldn't imagine that slimjim-like mex shit being related to Chourico[:D]
You had clams and Mexican chourico? That mexican sausage?
I grew up 8 miles from where the best chourico on the planet. In fact, when I was a lineman (late 20s) for the telco in Fall River, we used to go and have Chourico and Eggs as a guise to buy weed off none other than the famous Emeril Lagasse ... Yeah, he had a sordid past, at a place that translated would read Green Isle.
The Motto of Fall River is "We'll Try" the only time I have come dangerously close to pissing my pants was the first time I noticed that on the side of a police car. The only thing that stopped my guffawing was the cop's threat to arrest me for it.
  A little tip... if you are ever get taken to a Portuguese 'Athletic Club' be careful not to order "fish and chips" ... unless you like a roasted mackerel, served with a big long green pepper and a boiled and roasted whole potato as your prize. And if someone you're with insists on ordering for you and orders the Bacalhau for you, THEY HATE YOU[:D]




Aylee -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 3:50:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Thanks a lot Aylee. Now I have to spend the day looking for dark-chocolate covered bacon recipes!


There is a recipe?

Cook the bacon to desired crispness in the oven. Chill bacon. Melt your dipping dark-chocolate (Ghirardelli makes a nice one.) If you are worried about melting your chocolate, use a tinfoil pie tin and heating pad. Dip your bacon in the chocolate. Remove excess with fingers. Place on rack on tray. Refrigerate. **Add pretties if you want**

http://ghirardelli.com/products/bars_dipping_choc.aspx




kalikshama -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 3:55:07 PM)

quote:

Apparently, the US is fighting with the Europe, over labeling. In the US GMO's are not on labels, whereas in Europe they specify when GMO's are in a product. The US is butting it's head in and trying to make them stop with the labeling. Why should the US care how another country labels its food? Why is the US not labeling when GMO's are in food?


Cui bono? Monsanto

Among the documents obtained by Wikileaks include Monsanto asking the US government to maintain its strong pressure on the European Union legislation for the introduction of GMO foods.[79] After moves in France to ban a Monsanto GM corn variety, the US embassy recommended that 'we calibrate a target retaliation list that causes some pain across the EU'.[80]

------------

Read anything by Michael Pollen, starting with

Playing God in the Garden

Today I planted something new in my vegetable garden -- something very new, as a matter of fact. It's a potato called the New Leaf Superior, which has been genetically engineered -- by Monsanto, the chemical giant recently turned ''life sciences'' giant -- to produce its own insecticide. This it can do in every cell of every leaf, stem, flower, root and (here's the creepy part) spud. The scourge of potatoes has always been the Colorado potato beetle, a handsome and voracious insect that can pick a plant clean of its leaves virtually overnight. Any Colorado potato beetle that takes so much as a nibble of my New Leafs will supposedly keel over and die, its digestive tract pulped, in effect, by the bacterial toxin manufactured in the leaves of these otherwise ordinary Superiors. (Superiors are the thin-skinned white spuds sold fresh in the supermarket.) You're probably wondering if I plan to eat these potatoes, or serve them to my family. That's still up in the air; it's only the first week of May, and harvest is a few months off.

[snip]

I checked with the F.D.A. to find out exactly what had been done to insure the safety of this potato. I was mystified by the fact that the Bt toxin was not being treated as a ''food additive'' subject to labeling, even though the new protein is expressed in the potato itself. The label on a bag of biotech potatoes in the supermarket will tell a consumer all about the nutrients they contain, even the trace amounts of copper. Yet it is silent not only about the fact that those potatoes are the product of genetic engineering but also about their containing an insecticide.

At the F.D.A., I was referred to James Maryanski, who oversees biotech food at the agency. I began by asking him why the F.D.A. didn't consider Bt a food additive. Under F.D.A. law, any novel substance added to a food must -- unless it is ''generally regarded as safe'' (''GRAS,'' in F.D.A. parlance) -- be thoroughly tested and if it changes the product in any way, must be labeled.

''That's easy,'' Maryanski said. ''Bt is a pesticide, so it's exempt'' from F.D.A. regulation. That is, even though a Bt potato is plainly a food, for the purposes of Federal regulation it is not a food but a pesticide and therefore falls under the jurisdiction of the E.P.A.

Yet even in the case of those biotech crops over which the F.D.A. does have jurisdiction, I learned that F.D.A. regulation of biotech food has been largely voluntary since 1992, when Vice President Dan Quayle issued regulatory guidelines for the industry as part of the Bush Administration's campaign for ''regulatory relief.'' Under the guidelines, new proteins engineered into foods are regarded as additives (unless they're pesticides), but as Maryanski explained, ''the determination whether a new protein is GRAS can be made by the company.'' Companies with a new biotech food decide for themselves whether they need to consult with the F.D.A. by following a series of ''decision trees'' that pose yes or no questions like this one: ''Does. . .the introduced protein raise any safety concern?''

Since my Bt potatoes were being regulated as a pesticide by the E.P.A. rather than as a food by the F.D.A., I wondered if the safety standards are the same. ''Not exactly,'' Maryanski explained. The F.D.A. requires ''a reasonable certainty of no harm'' in a food additive, a standard most pesticides could not meet. After all, ''pesticides are toxic to something,'' Maryanski pointed out, so the E.P.A. instead establishes human ''tolerances'' for each chemical and then subjects it to a risk-benefit analysis.

When I called the E.P.A. and asked if the agency had tested my Bt potatoes for safety as a human food, the answer was. . .not exactly. It seems the E.P.A. works from the assumption that if the original potato is safe and the Bt protein added to it is safe, then the whole New Leaf package is presumed to be safe. Some geneticists believe this reasoning is flawed, contending that the process of genetic engineering itself may cause subtle, as yet unrecognized changes in a food.

The original Superior potato is safe, obviously enough, so that left the Bt toxin, which was fed to mice, and they ''did fine, had no side effects,'' I was told. I always feel better knowing that my food has been poison-tested by mice, though in this case there was a small catch: the mice weren't actually eating the potatoes, not even an extract from the potatoes, but rather straight Bt produced in a bacterial culture.

So are my New Leafs safe to eat? Probably, assuming that a New Leaf is nothing more than the sum of a safe potato and a safe pesticide, and further assuming that the E.P.A.'s idea of a safe pesticide is tantamount to a safe food. Yet I still had a question. Let us assume that my potatoes are a pesticide -- a very safe pesticide. Every pesticide in my garden shed -- including the Bt sprays -- carries a lengthy warning label. The label on my bottle of Bt says, among other things, that I should avoid inhaling the spray or getting it in an open wound. So if my New Leaf potatoes contain an E.P.A.-registered pesticide, why don't they carry some such label?

Maryanski had the answer. At least for the purposes of labeling, my New Leafs have morphed yet again, back into a food: the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act gives the F.D.A. sole jurisdiction over the labeling of plant foods, and the F.D.A. has ruled that biotech foods need be labeled only if they contain known allergens or have otherwise been ''materially'' changed.

But isn't turning a potato into a pesticide a material change?

It doesn't matter. The Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act specifically bars the F.D.A. from including any information about pesticides on its food labels.

I thought about Maryanski's candid and wondrous explanations the next time I met Phil Angell, who again cited the critical role of the F.D.A. in assuring Americans that biotech food is safe. But this time he went even further. ''Monsanto should not have to vouchsafe the safety of biotech food,'' he said. ''Our interest is in selling as much of it as possible. Assuring its safety is the F.D.A.'s job.''

[snip]




Termyn8or -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 3:58:51 PM)

"but if I do I actually prefer Kosher salt (which comes from both underground and sea sources) to sea salt"

Eeny meeny miney moe..... I just happened to respond to you y'know.

It is all sea salt actually. It's just some of the seas are no longer there. However the issues here are one - the refining process, and two - additive(s).

Kosher salt is a good alternative for people who can't get or don't want to pay for the full blown salt. What of it I've seen it usually has a label that warns that "this salt will clump up". That is because is does not have an anti-clumping agent. Salt clumps up because it combines with water in the atmosphere. Our bodies are mostly water and if something inhibits water and salt from combining it is reasonable to assume that this will have an effect on how it is absorbed and metabolised by the body. Some proponents of salt contend that there is no such thing as too much salt, at least without that additive, however I am not buying into that. I take it with a grain of salt :-)

Now if you actually can get unrefined salt there are a couple of things to remember, it is not all created equal. I have two varieties which I mix. They are harvested from different areas of the planet, but both of them being unrefined have many minerals in them. Most of these other minerals are not that abundant, but a bunch of them are ones that we need very little of in the first place.

Note that when they refine salt they make as much revenue from what is refined out of the salt as they do on the salt. And as to the clumping, the stuff I have is so agroscopic that if left in an unsealed container in the summer water will collect in the container. It is practically a dessicant ! It also makes stainless steel rust and eats away ceramic teeth in grinders, leaving me at times with no other option than a mortar and pistle, and it ate those alive until I got a couple from Edmund Scientific Corp. (that place really went downhill, that was the smallest order I had ever placed with them, they used to be excellent for scientific stuff)

But the point there is that life in the seas is bathed constantly in water that has seasalt disolved in it, for their entire lives. I think that's good.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 4:04:30 PM)

"Take a tanker truck to the beach, suck up a bunch of seawater, take it home and put it in wading pools inside of a greenhouse."

That's not how it's done actually, but the result would be almost the same.

T^T




Politesub53 -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 4:20:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Farmed seafood is almost indistinguishable from sea caught, and so much cheaper its ridiculous. PETA will find something to whine about though.



As will Republicans in Alaska.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/12/congress-gm-salmon




Politesub53 -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 4:24:24 PM)

GM modified potatoes have been planted in the EU, Germany is one place, not modified as food, but modified to give a high starch content for use in industry.

The worry of most Europeans is that any such crop could find its way into the food chain. This is mainly the reason, as well as a better taste, for the rise in organic farming in the EU.




Aylee -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 4:26:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Take a tanker truck to the beach, suck up a bunch of seawater, take it home and put it in wading pools inside of a greenhouse."

That's not how it's done actually, but the result would be almost the same.

T^T


http://www.maineseasalt.com/about-maine-sea-salt-co.html

Check again. I think that PBS has even done some learning specials on it.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 4:29:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Farmed seafood is almost indistinguishable from sea caught, and so much cheaper its ridiculous. PETA will find something to whine about though.



As will Republicans in Alaska.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/12/congress-gm-salmon


Not for the same reasons, obv.




Politesub53 -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 4:34:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Farmed seafood is almost indistinguishable from sea caught, and so much cheaper its ridiculous. PETA will find something to whine about though.



As will Republicans in Alaska.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/12/congress-gm-salmon


Not for the same reasons, obv.


Interesting that you didnt say anything about the republican veto though huh.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 4:35:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Farmed seafood is almost indistinguishable from sea caught, and so much cheaper its ridiculous. PETA will find something to whine about though.



As will Republicans in Alaska.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/12/congress-gm-salmon


Not for the same reasons, obv.


Interesting that you didnt say anything about the republican veto though huh.


Since I'm not familiar enough with the issues and since your response had nothing to do with my sarcastic PETA remark, why would I?




Politesub53 -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 4:44:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since I'm not familiar enough with the issues and since your response had nothing to do with my sarcastic PETA remark, why would I?



My bad, you assure me you know everything about everything, right up until I ask for a link or point out something you have missed.

I wont do it happen again........... Ha ha kiddinggggggggggg




DeviantlyD -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 10:09:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And as to the clumping, the stuff I have is so agroscopic that if left in an unsealed container in the summer water will collect in the container. It is practically a dessicant !

T^T


Never heard of the word.

And, a desiccant is hygroscopic. [8|]




Termyn8or -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 10:33:37 PM)

"Check again. I think that PBS has even done some learning specials on it."

Not. Shallow pools with an inlet from the ocean, they fill at high tide. Then the inlet is blocked off so as not to become an outlet at low tide. The sun itself dries the seawater and leaves the seasalt deposited and then it is shoveled up.

That is how "organic" seasalt is harvested, whatever PBS says is their business.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: How safe are GMO's? (9/19/2011 10:35:54 PM)

"And, a desiccant is hygroscopic"

Oops. You are right on that.

Nonetheless you gotta keep the shit sealed or else.

T^T




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