RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis...

RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (Full Version)

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joether -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/19/2011 7:08:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Person A may get one less TV But Person B, C, and D all have good paying jobs. A single TV will support three jobs? If a TV costs $400, let's assume $100 goes to manufacturing, using a factor of four markup (which used to be typical some thirty years ago - I assume it's still that currently). Then for a single $70K manufacturing job (wages and benefits), 700 TVs will not be bought. To support a factory of maybe 400 workers, that's some 3 million televisions that got removed from the US economy per year. That's a lower standard of living. Your idea is flawed in places, DarkSteven. We live in 2011, not 1921. Most cars are not put together as a single piece but rather as part of an assembly line. Do I need to explain Henry Ford and the company he created? Or the business practice used to assemble cars? Lamborghini's are actually hand made and not so much assembled like those found in General Motors or Honda. So, the workforce will be sent up much differently between a Lamborghini's production verse that of something from GM. You take the idea that the end cost of a product, is the justification of everything that came before it. If that was the case, no new company would never enter into existance. A new automobile company has a staggering high 'iniital entry' into the market that is primarily manufacturing heavy, but needing skilled workers. Most companies do not make a first year profit (or second or third). It takes them awhile to 'get going' as it were to produce its product/service. Unfortunately, the market will not accept a $1,900 TV that has more or less the same specifications as one that can be purchased for $350. Hence, the company must be accurate in selling its product at the market cost, NOT, unit cost (i.e. cost to create the unit). As you employ workers, they take on additional costs just to go and do their job. Food, gas, transportation, etc, are all nessisary elements (A). Also, there are also costs not related directly to the job that also must be paid (B). Finally, what is left over is open to investing (C) and spending (D). A, B, C, and D, are areas that money can and will be directed towards. This money will be directed to entities that will 'fill up with' production/service levels and need (if it wants more profit) to hire additional workers to fulfil the demand (remember this word). Those additional workers will each have the A, B, C, and D elements like the first batch of workers, and thus, create addtional production/services being used. The problem with our economy isn't one of supply. There is plenty of supply, but not much demand for it. Its a basic economics model. As demand for a tv, cheeseburger, or even a Lamborghini grows, so to will the profit to be had from the D/S model. Creating jobs will create demand which will thus, increase profit potential. An as silly as it sounds, creating jobs will lower the unemployment rate.

SternSkipper -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/19/2011 7:17:52 PM)
quote: Why would I agree when its based on a false premise? And why would I take a decrease when you get an increase? Yo WillBe... they aren't gonna do a Batman sequel with "The Riddler" so spare us the "riddle me this shit" ... Fuck not I'll have to let Sanity down easy when I tell him they aren't going to do a Batman sequel with "Diaperman" either.

farglebargle -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 5:46:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Masta808 Why would companies pay an American work $7.00 an hour when they can outsource the same work to China or any other developing country for $0.35. To lower unemployment? Thats being Anti-Capitalist and Anti-Business. Basically what your asking for is business to give up their profit margins in favor of reducing unemployment, can it get any more anti-capitalist. The only way to compete with China is to reduce minimum wage to levels a China or developing country levels. It makes perfect sense to bring the 3rd world policies to America so we economically compete with the 3rd world countries. Now thats capitalism OR you impose a tariff on the imported goods to make their imported costs equal to domestic production. I'm not Anti-Business.. I'm PRO AMERICAN BUSINESS. Seriously. FUCK CHINA and FUCK EVERYONE WHO WOULD RATHER HIRE CHINESE THAN AMERICANS. What do you call it when someone's loyalty isn't to their own nation?

samboct -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 6:26:37 AM)
We've got to rebuild our manufacturing base here- otherwise we've got nothing. A few issues with the "problems" that have been raised around tariffs. 1) The idea that manufactured in China lowers prices to the US consumer I suspect is something of a myth. Take a company like New Balance that used to manufacture running shoes in this country and sold them for $100. Well, they moved some of their mfg to China, their quality went down, but the price still stayed at $100. Methinks the executive pay has shot up from that- and if we look at the statistics in between the highest paid person at the company earns and the lowest paid person at the company earns, we find that like the gap between the rich and poor- it's widened. This is a business problem due to greed and keeping up with the Joneses. It's the mantra of we have to pay for executive talent. However, while there are links between pay and performance lower down the ladder, at the executive level- doesn't exist. 2) Prior to Ronnie Rayguns, our defense industry used to have to have domestic sourcing for components. Ronnie wanted a weapons buildout, but needed a way to make it less expensive- hence the program "COTS" -commercial off the shelf technology was to be used as often as possible. After 10 years, we saw it really kick in- and mfg shifted to China- but again, weapons prices stayed high. 3) The idea that you can separate mfg from R+D is also idiotic. You learn stuff when you have to make it that you don't figure out in a lab so it becomes an iterative process. The Chinese learned stuff that US companies didn't know because they were building new gidgets. Look at a company like LG which used to be a contract mfg. They went from building individual components of TVs, to designing major parts of the product as well as mfg, and then they decided- why do we need to stick someone elses nameplate on what we're building? 4) You can't pay for R+D without mfg. The taxes and the economic boost you get from mfg used to be reinvested in this country for our R+D infrastructure. Well, that's become a real problem, and we've been cutting R+D. Guess who's been ramping it up? So how are we supposed to invent new stuff? When China does that too, where does that leave us? 5) Germany wrestled with the same problem- and came to the conclusion that certain industries had to be protected with tariffs such as machinery. Doesn't seem to have hurt their economy.... Sam

Masta808 -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 4:17:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Masta808 Why would companies pay an American work $7.00 an hour when they can outsource the same work to China or any other developing country for $0.35. To lower unemployment? Thats being Anti-Capitalist and Anti-Business. Basically what your asking for is business to give up their profit margins in favor of reducing unemployment, can it get any more anti-capitalist. The only way to compete with China is to reduce minimum wage to levels a China or developing country levels. It makes perfect sense to bring the 3rd world policies to America so we economically compete with the 3rd world countries. Now thats capitalism OR you impose a tariff on the imported goods to make their imported costs equal to domestic production. I'm not Anti-Business.. I'm PRO AMERICAN BUSINESS. Seriously. FUCK CHINA and FUCK EVERYONE WHO WOULD RATHER HIRE CHINESE THAN AMERICANS. What do you call it when someone's loyalty isn't to their own nation? Way to add substance to the topic. To answer your question. A Capitalist Corporation or a Mercenary.

Masta808 -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 4:19:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: nyphylim Has no one noticed the South Korean boom? Ther have HUGE import taxes. Lets look at liquer for instance. A bottle of American whiskey runs around 130,000 wan or 130$ US when I was over there. They make Soju and sell it for around 3000 wan, yes, thats around 3$ US. You tell me which one sells there. Im not sure what point youre trying to make, but the answer to your question is Soju. "Although beer, whiskey, and wine have been gaining popularity in recent years, soju remains one of the most popular alcoholic beverages in Korea because of its ready availability and relatively low price. More than 3 billion bottles were consumed in South Korea in 2004.[13] In 2006, it was estimated that the average adult Korean (older than 20) had consumed 90 bottles of soju during that year." like a True Scottsman, a True American Patriot will always answer American.

nyphylim -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 5:50:27 PM)
Like I said, the import taxes are working for Korea. That and the making of consumer products for other countries.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 6:03:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nyphylim Like I said, the import taxes are working for Korea. I still havent figured out what you think "working for Korea" means. If "working for them" to you means depriving consumers of something they want by making it prohibitively expensive then it appears to be working. I dont consider that "working". If you apply it to goods that are more important than alcohol it clearly doesnt work.

tj444 -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 6:23:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct We've got to rebuild our manufacturing base here- otherwise we've got nothing. Sam The cost of living in the US is extremely high, people cant afford to pay for most things to be manufactured in the US (even if you were to tack on tariffs on imported goods). They would still buy imported goods, either that or simply not buy anything at all cuz they dont have the money to. Jmo

samboct -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 6:58:29 PM)
TJ The cost of living in this country isn't that high- try Switzerland as a counterexample. Nor do I buy the idea that people have to buy cheap Chinese crap- seems to me that we've been buying more stuff, but not necessarily getting happier. Furthermore, in terms of what we need to survive- the prices of things like food, oil (to a first approximation) cars etc. are pretty close globally- housing varies tremendously. As Krugman points out- we're living in a rentier's economy (the people that collect the rent get rich, the rest of us get poor. But somehow I don't see the solution as buying more cheap crap from China. Sam PS- I do wanna play with your tit mouse. You have two, why can't I play with one?

SternSkipper -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 7:36:29 PM)
quote: like a True Scottsman, a True American Patriot will always answer American. See A capitalist like myself hopes they'll skip the booze and buy these rocks my homie just cooked up for them... it's even in nice little ziplocks with korean writing on it... fuck if I know what it says... Tiora Tora Tora or something like that.

Masta808 -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/20/2011 10:32:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: nyphylim Like I said, the import taxes are working for Korea. I still havent figured out what you think "working for Korea" means. If "working for them" to you means depriving consumers of something they want by making it prohibitively expensive then it appears to be working. I dont consider that "working". If you apply it to goods that are more important than alcohol it clearly doesnt work. Exactly, how dare Korea make Imported Goods more expensive than Domestic Goods, its Anti-Capitalist and Anti-Foreign Trade. I never understood why a country would want their own people buying their own product and keeping their money in Korea. The American model is so much better, instead of buying American products we buy product from China which essentially sends our money to China. Now thats Capitalism, American Capitalism.

tj444 -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/21/2011 4:51:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct TJ The cost of living in this country isn't that high- try Switzerland as a counterexample. Nor do I buy the idea that people have to buy cheap Chinese crap- seems to me that we've been buying more stuff, but not necessarily getting happier. Furthermore, in terms of what we need to survive- the prices of things like food, oil (to a first approximation) cars etc. are pretty close globally- housing varies tremendously. As Krugman points out- we're living in a rentier's economy (the people that collect the rent get rich, the rest of us get poor. But somehow I don't see the solution as buying more cheap crap from China. Sam PS- I do wanna play with your tit mouse. You have two, why can't I play with one? umm, well, there are many places in the US that are very expensive, California which is one of the biggest economies in the world.. I lived in Orange County and a starter home is $500,000. I have no clue about Swizerland but then you either have to be filthy rich or already born there so that excludes 99.5% of the US population... But compared to China, India, etc, those countries, the US is expensive, which is why wages there are so much less than here, thats what my point was.. But seriously, people bitch about those jobs that have left the US but who of those people (that do the bitching) would actually take a minimum wage sweat shop slave job if one was offered to him/her in the US? Imo, none would.. PS - As you can plainly see, i have only one tit mouse so no, you cant play with it! (tj slaps Sam's hand)

willbeurdaddy -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/21/2011 5:14:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 But seriously, people bitch about those jobs that have left the US but who of those people (that do the bitching) would actually take a minimum wage sweat shop slave job if one was offered to him/her in the US? Imo, none would.. Not when they can collect welfare, thats for sure.

Masta808 -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/21/2011 5:20:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 But seriously, people bitch about those jobs that have left the US but who of those people (that do the bitching) would actually take a minimum wage sweat shop slave job if one was offered to him/her in the US? Imo, none would.. Not when they can collect welfare, thats for sure. Exactly, welfare is so much better than getting a job, all you have to do is have 4 kids and every female is pregnant. You can get $500 a MONTH. That will cover, housing, food, electricity, clothes, with money still left over to buy a tv, xbox, playstation, a refrigerator, and a microwave. Hooray free money.

subbisherri -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/21/2011 5:51:42 PM)
quote: Has no one noticed the South Korean boom? Ther have HUGE import taxes. Lets look at liquer for instance. A bottle of American whiskey runs around 130,000 wan or 130$ US when I was over there. They make Soju and sell it for around 3000 wan, yes, thats around 3$ US. You tell me which one sells there. South Korea isn't a good trade example, America props it up and goes along with trade restrictions in order to use the South as a buffer to North Korea. The "greater good" and all that. On the other hand, one COULD argue that every time one of you buys your dope from Canada or Mexico, you're putting an AMERICAN out of work! So what if the domestic product is vastly inferior, overpriced Idaho skunkweed should be good enough as long as the baggie says "Made in America."

DarkSteven -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/21/2011 6:34:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subbisherri On the other hand, one COULD argue that every time one of you buys your dope from Canada or Mexico, you're putting an AMERICAN out of work! So what if the domestic product is vastly inferior, overpriced Idaho skunkweed should be good enough as long as the baggie says "Made in America." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdlIPAB1blA [8D]

samboct -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/23/2011 4:52:57 AM)
tj Wages in China have been climbing quickly, and as I noted earlier, I think a big chunk of the reason why jobs have to move to China is to allow executive salaries to skyrocket. Furthermore, some cities in China such as Shanghai- well, they ain't exactly cheap- I think apt rents are comparable to NYC if not higher. Hong Kong has some of the most expensive office space globally. In short, I don't really buy the wage argument- never have. Bellyaching about wages is what happens when the people running the company are running out of vision as to how to grow a business. PS-what do you mean, you only have one tit mouse? Don't those things normally come in pairs? Sam

thompsonx -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/23/2011 5:03:52 AM)
quote: No you moron. Those hired to make iPads take their paycheck and buy stuff. But the people who BUY iPads have less money to spend on OTHER stuff, because they had to pay inflated prices for the iPad. That takes jobs away from those making the OTHER stuff. Since the iPad employees manufacture far more than they are paid the net is an overall reduction in the country's buying power So you would be in favor of removing the .30 cents a pound import tarrif on sugar?

Moonhead -> RE: "Made in USA" is the solution to our economic crisis... (9/23/2011 5:09:48 AM)
A hit, a very palpable hit!

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