RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (Full Version)

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StrangerThan -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/24/2011 3:48:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

You have to be really jaded not to be outraged by that video.
It was stupid of the park service to pass such a rule. It was stupid of the police to so mindlessly provoke such a meaningless confrontation. I don't know if it was because of the patriot act, but the police in the last 15 years are getting progressively more brutal. Hardly a month goes by in Portland where you don't hear about some cop killing wounding or just terrorizing one of the people they are supposed to protect. Lucky for the cops that most of their victims are homeless or "brown", so on one get too outraged about it. Suicide by cop is a more reliable way to kill yourself than hanging or pills.
Just because people didn't scream wihen the PA was passed doesn't mean we should watch this stuff in silence.


I must be jaded because I don't feel any sense of outrage. Nor did I find the arrest brutal as the link implied. This was not a group who just happened to get in trouble at a national monument. They went for the express purpose of creating and causing a scene.

As far as the pivotal moment? It occurs about 10 seconds into the video. The issue at that point became, not what they were doing, but resistance. The entire piece going forward has nothing to do with anything else. Nor is there a lead-in to what caused the initial confrontation in the first place. Forgive me for doubting that a simple kiss generated that type of response.





Iamsemisweet -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/24/2011 9:10:17 AM)

Stranger, I am not a person who has questioned authority a lot in my life, but that video outraged me. Not because the protestors weren't looking for trouble, because they were. But the rule that was being enforced was so fucking stupid, who wouldn't have protested it? And the cops' reaction was so extreme in relation to the harm that was actually being done. They could have written a citation for a fine, instead they escalated to the physical. It was enforcement as a way to say fuck you for defiance. Nice direction we are taking in this country.



StrangerThan -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/24/2011 10:09:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Stranger, I am not a person who has questioned authority a lot in my life, but that video outraged me. Not because the protestors weren't looking for trouble, because they were. But the rule that was being enforced was so fucking stupid, who wouldn't have protested it? And the cops' reaction was so extreme in relation to the harm that was actually being done. They could have written a citation for a fine, instead they escalated to the physical. It was enforcement as a way to say fuck you for defiance. Nice direction we are taking in this country.


Semisweet, gotta tell you, the instant you step across the line into resistance, your odds of being arrested just shot through the roof. I've had my share of run-ins with the law, and worked for a couple of law enforcement agencies. Straight up, defiance will get you arrested in a lot of cases more so than what you were doing in the first place.

Shrug. In this case, it was staged, a setup. I got no compassion for them.



Aneirin -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/24/2011 11:29:17 AM)

Authority must always win even when it is wrong, right and wrong can be decided later and often is via law courts, but if authority challenges and is shouted down, what use is that authority ?

That is why I believe those who actively seek authoritarial positions, where their authority comes from the uniform they wear really need to undertake psychometric testing in order to weed out the weak from the real, and that because of meglomania.



HardHum -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/24/2011 11:39:08 AM)

Right, I'm sure the same people who brought us the oppressive police state as depicted in the video will do a bang up job with administering our health care. These goons in Washington demonstrate over and over, day after day, that they shouldn't be in charge of anything that matters.



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/24/2011 11:39:19 AM)

Don't agree with you there. The problem is that when the courts decide, they often do so in the context of civil lawsuits when the agency is getting the fuck sued out of them. Disproportionately and mindlessly enforcing stupid rules actually undermines authority and cost citizens' money. Why the hell do you think there are so many civil suits against enforcement agencies. Because they believe they have to assert their authority at all cost. The homeless, crazy guy doesn't stop being confrontational when they order him to, so they shoot him. But at least he isn't questioning their authority anymore.
The cops got physical first. They could have simply written citations. Hope the Park Service gets their fucking ass sued.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Authority must always win even when it is wrong, right and wrong can be decided later and often is via law courts, but if authority challenges and is shouted down, what use is that authority ?

That is why I believe those who actively seek authoritarial positions, where their authority comes from the uniform they wear really need to undertake psychometric testing in order to weed out the weak from the real, and that because of meglomania.



Aneirin -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/24/2011 12:01:32 PM)

And that is the problem we have in society, the badge wearer can do as they like because of the litigation culture where at the end of the day the only people that actually win are the lawyers and insurance companies. Whats the use of receiving monies after the fact, does receiving monies via litigation make it all alright, are you that easily bought ?

Or is it those who hold badges of office should be the best and there do their job with professionalism and integrity, so the authority is automatically respected because of the professionalism and integrity they display, but if we allow this sueing and counter sueing ad finitum all we are doing, is allowing thugs to hold power over us, because that is what they are when they act in the ways mentioned in the OP.



StrangerThan -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/24/2011 2:02:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

That is why I believe those who actively seek authoritarial positions, where their authority comes from the uniform they wear really need to undertake psychometric testing in order to weed out the weak from the real, and that because of meglomania.


I couldn't agree more. That is a fact if there ever was one.



tj444 -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 10:47:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Because I believe the US was such a country people moved to to seek a better life, yet a couple of centuries further on, just listen to them moan about what they've become, as I believe is always the case once the 'honeymoon' period of wonder ceases.

But those that have the daring to leave their country of origin and seek a better life elsewhere, the immigrant, have to be admired for their tenacity, because one thing is for sure, not everyone can do it.

Perhaps it is those that can move elsewhere are the true survivors of our species, because they evolve whereas others, those that can't do what the immigrants do, stagnate and there end up moaning about everything, including immigrants as if they were the sole reason everything in their perception has turned to shit.

There are other countries in this world, one does not have to live in the US if they dont want to. Actually, for me, if I dont happen to find a boyfriend i want to live with before I decide to leave the US, I will be doing just that... Imo, there are several other countries that provide more of what I am looking for.. and hopefully, the US wont invade any of them.. [:D]



SternSkipper -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 11:38:36 AM)

quote:

There are other countries in this world, one does not have to live in the US if they dont want to. Actually, for me, if I dont happen to find a boyfriend i want to live with before I decide to leave the US, I will be doing just that... Imo, there are several other countries that provide more of what I am looking for.. and hopefully, the US wont invade any of them..


Hope ya find that boyfriend..... this country needs titmice



Termyn8or -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 1:51:10 PM)

Hmmmmm, seems this guy had made a name for himself. Of course he did nothing wrong - there, at that time.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Kincaid/cliff543.htm

"
The Russia Today propaganda channel, which has just cancelled the “Adam Vs. The Man” show featuring American Adam Kokesh, has come to the assistance of the brutal Assad regime in Syria. “A media delegation from the Russian channel ‘Russia Today’ visited the Military Hospital of Tishreen in Damascus and listened [to] the truth about Syria’s events from the injured soldiers and law-enforcement personnel,” reports the official Syrian news agency.
 
According to this bizarre account, the human rights demonstrators in the streets being shot and killed by the regime are “armed terrorist groups” that use “machineguns, snipers and grenades with the aim of killing.”
"
 
Sure is alot of smoke.
 
T^T



SternSkipper -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 2:11:07 PM)

quote:

Why, are (they) part of Homeland Security too!


Because the Patriot act basically deputizes everybody publicly employed for a security or first responder role (as well as imposing certain intelligence responsibilities on certain categories of privately employed personnel)...AND THEN the act goes into the diminishing of your suspended civil rights.
     The treat I am looking forward to most is when one of you magically disappears, days later one of you finds out they were 'detained' and upon asking why that was legal, are in turn detained.
  That one even astonishes russians I've seen discussing the patriot act.[:D]




SternSkipper -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 2:14:30 PM)

quote:

According to this bizarre account, the human rights demonstrators in the streets being shot and killed by the regime are “armed terrorist groups” that use “machineguns, snipers and grenades with the aim of killing.”


They have a better Patriot Act in Syria[:D]

Guys from HSA are probably watching the dailies from that country going "I coulda had a falcon"




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 2:17:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Why, are (they) part of Homeland Security too!


Because the Patriot act basically deputizes everybody publicly employed for a security or first responder role (as well as imposing certain intelligence responsibilities on certain categories of privately employed personnel)...AND THEN the act goes into the diminishing of your suspended civil rights.
     The treat I am looking forward to most is when one of you magically disappears, days later one of you finds out they were 'detained' and upon asking why that was legal, are in turn detained.
  That one even astonishes russians I've seen discussing the patriot act.[:D]




Watch those thunderstorms.



SternSkipper -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 2:45:26 PM)

quote:



Watch those thunderstorms.


So says Karl Rove's nephew



Termyn8or -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 2:47:53 PM)

"That one even astonishes russians I've seen discussing the patriot act."

I must admit that I had the common msconception shared by many US citizens about life in certain other countries - until I met immigrants from those countries.

Most of them really do consider going back. My employer years ago worked in conjunction with a church to supply things like appliances to new immigrants at low or no cost. They almost all agree that the days of milk and honey seem to have disappeared. Ask them yourself if you know any - if they think about going back. Some have given it great thought, and of those, some are gone.

T^T



SternSkipper -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 3:59:19 PM)

quote:

I must admit that I had the common msconception shared by many US citizens about life in certain other countries - until I met immigrants from those countries.


What 'common' misconception would that be? I've had ex soviet friends for over 35 years. My friend Oleg from college was a defector who used to work as a highschool reworking smuggled HP PC cards so they could be used for guidance modules in SS 25s.
   I saw him two years ago and asked "Had enough yet?" and he told me it was just getting interesting, adding "I'll teach you how to behave when it really gets трахал"



Termyn8or -> RE: Tired of oppression? Bet you wish you lived in America. (9/25/2011 6:07:25 PM)

"I've had ex soviet friends for over 35 years."

Well I haven't been so priviledged for that long. For decades it was drummed into our heads how bad communism and socialism are and how people have no rights, don't really own anything and can't do shit.

More recently when I actually met the people things took on a whole new cast. " You don't know you are controlled here, in communism you know ", " Where is the freedom ? ". People who are bilingual, trilingual and more, understand math, science and technology more than most here. People who learned real history, some of it from their families. People who went to real schools.

And now all the horror stories of the past about people disappearing and the government just taking your stuff, things like that which were in "the old country" are now here. Have a look at fear.org and it seems that confiscation is big business for law enforcement here now. We have Abi Graib and suspension of habeas, secret indictment, the RICO act, the PATRIOT act.

Thirty five years ago this is what these immigrants fled, and there was opportunity here. A decent economy, disposable income. People worked. People were healthy. This was the land of opportunity. It was also relatively free.

Look at it now. I brought up that this guy who got arrested had a history. Did I say that means he should've been arrested ? No I did not. I posted that to illustrate something else, something quite insidious and not too easy on the mind. If he was arrested because of who he is, how did they know who he is and that he would be there that day ?

In the old country you could get on a list if you didn't watch yourself. Read the PATRIOT act, that is specifically spelled out in it. It's not even a fucking secret and IMO there should be blood all over the streets from coast to coast, starting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. But there isn't.

"We" have no balls, no spirit of freedom, no solidarity and for the most part no weapons. Oh sure plenty of people have guns, but not only do few have the guts to use them and know how, these guns are no match for what the government has.

And the fear of the government is unpalatable so people revel in their illusion of safety, and drown their apathy in entertainment.

And believe it or not I'm in a pretty good mood right now. One day I'll tell you just how bad it REALLY is.

T^T



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