Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 7:33:13 AM)

The Christian Post

quote:

An Alabama town is giving non-violent offenders a choice between going to jail or going to church. But critics, pointing to church-state laws, say the program is not really optional.

The "jail or church" program is called "Operation Restore Our Community," or ROC, and will begin next week, local TV station WKRG reports.

How the program works is simple: offenders found guilty of misdemeanors will either pay their debt to society by paying fines and going to jail, or going to church every Sunday for a year. If offenders choose church, they will have to check in with pastors and police weekly. At the end of the year, their case is dismissed.

"It's an easy choice for me," says Bay Minette Police Chief Mike Rowland. "If I had to choose between going to jail and paying a heavy fine or going to church, I'd certainly select church."

"That's no choice at all," Robert Boston, the senior policy adviser at Americans United for Separation of Church and State, told The Christian Post. "The equivalency is so out of whack, it’s ridiculous."

The lop-sidedness of the two choices is essentially a way of "funneling people into churches," Boston said.

He also noted the ROC program is offensive to nonreligious people as well as people of other faiths, since offenders are not given a choice that represents their beliefs.

However, even with religious alternatives, Boston still finds the program to be problematic. "It's not the job of the government to place people in places of worship," he said.


Ala. Town Tells Offenders To Find Jesus Or Go To Jail

quote:

It’s a long-settled principle of law that the government cannot condition a desirable benefit, such as staying out of jail, on a person’s willingness to adopt a certain faith or even be exposed to it. This program is patently unconstitutional, and if the city insists on going ahead with it, it’s only a matter of time before someone sues.

In the media coverage about this matter, I’ve noticed that all of the talk centers on churches. Supposedly, 56 churches have agreed to take part. I did a little research about Bay Minette this morning. What struck me was that for a town of 8,500, it sure has a lot of Baptist churches. (I guess I shouldn’t have been too surprised. This is southern Alabama, after all.) Other denominations listed included Pentecostal, United Methodist, Presbyterian, Church of Christ, Roman Catholic and Assemblies of God. I didn’t see anything non-Christian listed.

Of course, the town’s religious diversity (or lack thereof) isn’t relevant. Bay Minette could have a range of Christian and non-Christian houses of worship in town. It still wouldn’t be right for the government to set up a program to channel people into them. Rehabilitating small-time offenders is a noble goal, but the town will need to come up with something else. Putting people in a position where they are forced to choose between sitting behind bars or going to religious services is patently unconstitutional.

Anyone want to bet that the first individual or organization that sues the town over this program will be accused of "persecuting Christians"?




NiceGuyNihilist -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 7:40:33 AM)

I wonder what they'd do if I made it my new hobby to show up at church every Sunday and ask the most discomforting questions about the Bible I could think of? Send me back to jail?




tazzygirl -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 7:42:01 AM)

I would sue them.... I wouldnt accuse anyone of persecuting if they did sue. This is blatantly unconstitutional.




Aneirin -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 8:01:24 AM)

Cool; headphones in.




tazzygirl -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 8:08:27 AM)

Might help if that made sense.




StrangerThan -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 8:57:10 AM)

Easy fix, send them to jail. 




lazarus1983 -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:19:35 AM)

Well that's an interesting idea. Take people who commit selfless actions, and put them in a setting that promotes selflessness.




StrangerThan -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:31:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Well that's an interesting idea. Take people who commit selfless actions, and put them in a setting that promotes selflessness.


What's interesting about.. "I don't wanna go to church. I want to go to jail. But because you're saying I have the option I'm going to sue your stupid ass for violating the Constitution" and saying, ok, fuck it. Send them to jail.

Just curious.






erieangel -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:37:10 AM)

Unconstitutional.  Years ago, these same people would have been the choice--jail or the military.  Now its jail or church??  I wonder if the town went so far as to say which churches are acceptable?




mnottertail -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:38:46 AM)

Soldiers for Christ, so I assume the Salvation Army would be on the list.

I wonder how many go Missing in Action?




StrangerThan -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:44:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Unconstitutional.  Years ago, these same people would have been the choice--jail or the military.  Now its jail or church??  I wonder if the town went so far as to say which churches are acceptable?


There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about saying, fuck it, send them to jail.




housesub4you -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:46:02 AM)

So are they saying that going to church is as much a punishment as going to jail?  




lazarus1983 -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:49:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Unconstitutional.  Years ago, these same people would have been the choice--jail or the military.  Now its jail or church??  I wonder if the town went so far as to say which churches are acceptable?


The article points out that they didn't accomodate for different religions.

Years before the military or jail idea, one of our nation's first prisons consisted of 24 hour solitary confinement and a bible. If you follow the history of corrections, the pendulum often swings from confinement to reformation. Depending on the public's perception of the goal of corrections.




tazzygirl -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:52:18 AM)

In this instance

Church = freedom
Jail = incarceration

Not so sure how that would stand up in a court.

The implication is that if you sit in church on sundays, you will have paid your debt to society. And the case is dismissed after a year.

Hell, are they even tried before this happens? Or are their records expunged?




DanaYielding -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 9:57:30 AM)

I'm not very religious but have a little bit of knowledge and I'm just wondering, why is this such a bad thing? I mean when I was young and going to church I was taught to love my neighbor, don't steal, don't kill, be compassionate, be charitable and be a part of something bigger than myself.
What did i miss or forget about church?




mnottertail -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 10:04:16 AM)

The fact that many of us have an intellectual starchblocker that leaves us without redemption in these matters.

That is, the state may be simply wasting more taxpayer monies inneffectually, because for many of us, justice would be deaf as well as blind.


Reverend Ron, of the church of 'Jesus Christ!!!! What's happenin' now????'




StrangerThan -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 10:05:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In this instance

Church = freedom
Jail = incarceration



Yeah, you really got to hate the idea of church to have a problem with not being incarcerated. I agree. It's probably unconstitutional. I also think to myself, give me the option of hanging out in prison 24/7 or going to church a few times a week, I'm going to church. Thing I'm not going to do is sue you over giving me the option to stay out of jail.






mnottertail -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 10:10:02 AM)

So as an act of redemption for a civil or criminal impropriety, the civil and criminal adjucator will offer me a choice in my act of contrition to perform a civil and criminal impropriety?

Why not just make me smoke a funnie? I could get with that.




DesFIP -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 10:11:49 AM)

I can't see just attending church to be of use. Now, going for counseling weekly with your spiritual advisor as well would be more helpful. And community service. It's insufficient to be effective imo.




StrangerThan -> RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? (9/27/2011 10:16:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So as an act of redemption for a civil or criminal impropriety, the civil and criminal adjucator will offer me a choice in my act of contrition to perform a civil and criminal impropriety?

Why not just make me smoke a funnie? I could get with that.



Apparently you can have a better chance at that if you go back to being Reverend Ron.




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