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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:58:58 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		well, i find it interesting that on the one hand, people think there should be more kids born and on the other hand, they dont want immigrants. Oh, and then they also dont want to pay more for their food or products they buy (to pay a more liveable wage to workers)..

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:59:26 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		When you grow up on a farm, well...you work the farm. Our school year is set up around the harvest, yanno!

Croppers and pickers don't have such a glam life, though they sure do it for years, there used to be a big cycle of workers that would go through Southern Ontario, into Michigan and back. Farming here isn't what it was, though, mostly they stay in Ontario now.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 1:00:48 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I'm not one of those people. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

well, i find it interesting that on the one hand, people think there should be more kids born and on the other hand, they dont want immigrants. Oh, and then they also dont want to pay more for their food or products they buy (to pay a more liveable wage to workers)..


< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 9/27/2011 1:11:24 PM >

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 1:22:12 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Well, I ain't one of those people.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

well, i find it interesting that on the one hand, people think there should be more kids born and on the other hand, they dont want immigrants. Oh, and then they also dont want to pay more for their food or products they buy (to pay a more liveable wage to workers)..


I wasnt referring to you thinking that (sorry if it sounded like that), just many other people out there think those things.

Apparently, the dept of labour is requiring employers to pay more, not sure if that helps those that do farm work by picking produce by the pound or not. Not sure if that will translate into more jobs for Americans or if it means more small businesses going out of business.. Time will tell, i guess. Imo, inflation will increase and make it harder for people to have kids.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/smallbusiness/1109/gallery.regulation_nightmares/5.html


< Message edited by tj444 -- 9/27/2011 1:23:42 PM >

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 4:19:17 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		We're at 310 million people in this country now. Why do we need more?
The only ones who want "more growth in population" are big corporations who want more,..."consumers" for their overseas made products.
We're not "people" to them we're "consumers."
As for labor, there is certainly no shortage of high school dropouts and people with worthless "degrees" who are unemployed in the country.
And most of them have EBT cards and get a check once a month from whatever.
As for "immigrants" we're a mature country and really don't need anymore immigration.
Any immigrants who are working in this country doing manual labor are going to be using medical services and a bunch of other things that will have to be paid for by.....the Taxpayers! Like the saying goes, "there's no such thing as "cheap labor."
If we could have worker programs with China or India where only the workers come over for a specified period no families, and where the employers paid for all medical, dental etc and they posted a bond assuring that their workers wouldn't be using any taxpayer funded services I think that would be more agreeable to many people. After all they're comming to "work" for a specified period of time then they go back
Those programs shouldn't involve U.S. citizenship, green cards etc. You come to work for 12 months then you leave.
In this area of the state we have 14% un-employment and in the Westrn part of the state they say it's 17-21%.
I'm sure plenty of them would like a job on a farm provided it paid good wages and had benefits. And I certainly wouldn't mind paying 10-15% more for produce to make that happen. They say that "labor" accounts for 8% of the price of produce.
Pay them $20-$25 an hour and good benefits!
How is
paying $1.50 for three apples instead of $1.20 going to affect anyone's life?
And lastly I think we should do things to help the Farmers! If they can use American labor and make more money that's a win/win.


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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 5:17:26 PM   
SillyMan


Posts: 46
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline 		we need fewer people, not more.
there are far too many already.
we'll all starve, or die fighting for the resources we need.

actually, that would reduce populations wouldnt it?

sorted.

sm

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 5:40:32 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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From: The dog house
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Well, being gay, I'm either part of the problem or the part of the solution, depending on what the problem is. Let me know when you get that question sorted out and I'll either apologize or accept your thanks.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 9:24:31 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you, heather

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 9:34:47 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather



Well, being gay, I'm either part of the problem or the part of the solution, depending on what the problem is. Let me know when you get that question sorted out and I'll either apologize or accept your thanks.


Being gay doesn't mean not having kids.  I know of many gay women who chose in vitro.

Re: the OP, Fertility issues are heartbreaking for many women.  Telling them "We have enough kids already" is rather cold.


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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 9:37:12 PM   
AdorkableAiley


Posts: 920
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

The whole idea of a fertility crisis is sort of ludicrous. How could any country's future be threatened by a low birth rate when there is such an enormous surplus of people in the world. If you don't have enough people being born in your country to maintain your society (a concept I find hard to accept anyway), then just increase immigration, they have plenty of people to spare in Africa and Asia.

There are more than enough people to go around already, it's not like there's a shortage. Nobody needs to be having any extra kids.



I think I love you girls!!! So smart and so right! You hit the nail on the head with this one and took the words right out of my mouth!


Ailey

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 11:00:29 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		well, I am the OP, and I don't think I said that. It also is not something I would ordinarily say to a woman who couldn't conceive. I might mention adoption, however.
Back to the article. I have kids, I love my kids, but I could have been equally fulfilled if I had been childless. I never dreamed about being a mother when I was a kid, I dreamed about having a job. What's more, this article is right, it is really, really hard to build a career and raise kids, and I couldn't have done it without my ex. My ex husband was the best father I ever saw. I got really, really lucky.
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather



Well, being gay, I'm either part of the problem or the part of the solution, depending on what the problem is. Let me know when you get that question sorted out and I'll either apologize or accept your thanks.

[/

Re: the OP, Fertility issues are heartbreaking for many women.  Telling them "We have enough kids already" is rather cold.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 11:32:49 PM   
NuevaVida


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Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

well, I am the OP, and I don't think I said that.

Oh no, semisweet, you didn't, and I did not mean to imply that you did.  I apologize if it seemed that way.  I was speaking to a general mindset that I've seen (and which seemed to be expressed here by others).

But I agree that the choice to have kids and a career would result in a challenging life.  How fortunate you are to have experienced such a good father for your kids.  Sadly, that seems to be a rarity.

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 9/27/2011 11:33:05 PM >

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/28/2011 12:16:42 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
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From: The dog house
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quote:

Being gay doesn't mean not having kids. I know of many gay women who chose in vitro.

Definition of JOKE
1 a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist
b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something (2) : an instance of jesting : kidding <can't take a joke>

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/28/2011 12:21:10 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"then just increase immigration, they have plenty of people to spare in Africa and Asia. "
 
Leave them there. Let us share a bigger piece of the ever crumbling pie here. Less people, more freedom. Less people more room. Less people more jobs per. Less people more EVERYTHING !

Go ahead and disagree. And tell me how I must share. L O L. Not happenin'.

T^T

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/28/2011 12:24:30 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Not that I think 6 year olds should be working in the fields anyway."

Nope, not until they're ten.

But that means on the family farm, not for some strawboss.

T^T

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/28/2011 12:28:52 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
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From: The dog house
Status: offline
quote:

Go ahead and disagree. And tell me how I must share. L O L. Not happenin'.

Go ahead and read the whole sentence.
quote:

If you don't have enough people being born in your country to maintain your society (a concept I find hard to accept anyway), then just increase immigration, they have plenty of people to spare in Africa and Asia.


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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/28/2011 12:42:48 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"paying $1.50 for three apples instead of $1.20 going to affect anyone's life?"

I agree so much but your math is off. First of all under the NLRB, if anyone really obeys it, it is almost impossible to pay piecework. You have a wage and a bonus, and if you have quotas you have not many options, like dismissal, which gets nothing done.

Workers who get paid piecework can be on 1099s, which most of them do not want because it's 15.2% off the top PLUS your own witholding. No US citizen does that for long. We want W2s if anything. But the employer needs a writeoff for the labor so it's a compromise situation, they cheat how much they can afford and pay the rest. It's a tricky balance especially if you don't want to get audited.

With all this, those apples would not be $1.50 instead of $1.20, they would be more like $5.00. That is not insignificant.

But really if you don't like fruit and fresh produce we can live without them. Most of the major crops like wheat and corn (or frankencorn) are harvested by machine. Illegal imigrants don't usually run machines like that. Some may but if they get hurt you just shoot them and bury them on the spot. At least the people I know do.

But there are other things illegals do on ranches and farms, deal with the cattle and shit, whatever. You increases labor costs you are literally taking food out of your own mouth.

And we should do it, absolutely. If you have to pay $1.66 for a nice big red delicious apple, and the fact that it is over twice what it used to cost means that one of your countrymen is able to feed his family without resorting to welfare, then you fucking do it ! That is the nature of the money game, the money ain't worth shit and when we squeeze these wetbacks BECAUSE WE CAN to bring us great produce at rock bottom prices, we have no fucking business whining about it when the big companies do it to us.

Nuff fucking said.

T^T

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/28/2011 1:11:10 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"paying $1.50 for three apples instead of $1.20 going to affect anyone's life?"

Nuff fucking said.

T^T

he's not gonna believe food inflation will be that bad. Not until all he can afford is cat food, and not the good stuff either...

I see it already actually.. I call it my "Blueberry Index"(TM). In CA I was buying blueberries like crazy and I was paying way less for blueberries imported from Chile than here in WA state and this is where they are grown. In fact, i never bought any this summer here in WA state at all cuz they were way too much and as much as I love my blueberries, I just couldnt justify it. Even illegals pay tax and support the economy (some more than others) but California buying Chile blueberries, the US gets squat from people spending $ on imported food, it supports farmers & workers in Chile, not here.. But hey, if you want to export farm jobs like manufacturing jobs were, then so be it...

If certain things happen here, I expect that a lot of small farmers will stop growing or go out of business,.. then lets see where food prices go...

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/28/2011 12:53:29 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Being gay doesn't mean not having kids. I know of many gay women who chose in vitro.

Definition of JOKE
1 a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist
b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something (2) : an instance of jesting : kidding <can't take a joke>


Um, duh.  I knew it was a joke but thanks, kiddo.  It was a joke that made a false assumption.  ::shrug::

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 9/28/2011 12:54:18 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/28/2011 2:42:31 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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Profile   Post #: 40
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