Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 10:46:21 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"That's one of the funniest things (though not the funniest thing) I've read all evening. :D "

OK funnypants. If light curves around a star because of gravitational effect(s), then that means that as it approaches the star it accelerates, either that or the star moves toward it. I'm betting on the former rather than the latter. If neither happens it breaks the laws of physics, the same laws these people are selling to the sheeple, which are not quite the real McCoy. You got a better theory ?

I'm glad you think this is amusing. Don't take this seriously, the favor has already been returned.

T^T

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 10:52:41 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		no acceleration in that sense. it takes a different space-time path.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 10:58:59 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

If you have infinite mass when you are going at light's speed, how much do you weigh when you are going faster then light?



An infinite amount? Do I get a nobel?


No. There is no infinite plus one.




I would never say there was an infinite plus one, just as I would say there is no pregnant plus one. If I take two infinite amounts I can put them on a scale they are equally infinite, even if one infinite amount is bigger than the other (the hotel problem)

Georg Cantor (mad as a hatter but could fuck with numbers) proved that unequivocally.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:01:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Technically the negative mass you would have at the start of this process to have might be a problem. (Maybe that is what dark matter is.)

But since a photon moves at the speed of light, it must then weigh an infinite amount, no?

. . .



no, its massless, which is WHY it travels at the speed of light

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:02:15 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"If you have infinite mass when you are going at light's speed, how much do you weigh when you are going faster then light? "

Infinite mass cannot be concieved by humans. That makes it a it tough to respond However if the assertion that mass moving, or accelerated to C is no longer mass, the amount of mass would then be irrelevant.

See this theory can get out of hand really easily, so, what the fuck. To start, consider the Doppler effect. Blue light has a higher frequency than red, when moving toward stars the spectrogram reveals the signatures of the elements in the star to be shifted either red or blue which indicated whether the observer is moving toward or away, and the approximate velicoty if enough accuracy is possible.

Now imagne traveling at C. You take off from Earth and step on the gas and get up to C. Any mass you encounter tooling across the heavens is moving at you at C, relative. It is not mass. The light that follows you, no matter it's origin, as you match speed with it (inhabit the same velocity space), it is matter to you. What was stationary matter when you were at rest might be moving at you at C which is now energy, and what was energy is now matter. Get it ?

What's more this can be going on in a complete sphere, not just a 360 degree circle. Even the two dimensional circle would yield an infinite number of possibilities, and a sphere, another universe more - of universes than infinity.

Sure it is a farfetched theory, but you know what ? If you think about it just because if you put too much uranium together it blows up does not really prove that energy is mass "times" the speed of light squared. It really doesn't.

T^T

(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:04:38 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"no, its massless, which is WHY it travels at the speed of light"

The problem with that is that photos are not massless.

T^T

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:06:02 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Georg Cantor (mad as a hatter but could fuck with numbers) proved that unequivocally."

Yuo owe me four grains of salt for that. Pay up.

T^T

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:07:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well yeah, it does. It says (as Einstein said) mass and energy at celerity are equivalent and interchangeable.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:09:17 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		FR...

Just want to make sure... there is no such thing as settled science EXCEPT... Anthropogenic global warming, That's a done deal.

Any questioning of that and your are a bigot, racist, christian idiot who wants to destroy the world.

Is that about right?

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:10:40 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Technically the negative mass you would have at the start of this process to have might be a problem. (Maybe that is what dark matter is.)

But since a photon moves at the speed of light, it must then weigh an infinite amount, no?

. . .



no, its massless, which is WHY it travels at the speed of light


Er, in order to make it fit into certain equations, they assign a photon 'relativistic mass.'

Certain things a photon does makes it function like it has mass.

But since one only ever travels at the speed of light . . .

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:10:49 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Nope, you are fuckin lost in this discussion Fats, you should bow out of it immediately. LOL.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:15:33 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Yes, I am aware it gets way out of hand real fast.

But infinite mass is the mass of the universei tself  in theory, since since the pieces of the universe cannot weigh more then the universe itself does, in theory (unless there is some of that anti-mass out there to "unweigh" the universe.)

Like I noted the math gets really interesting when you run things at these speeds.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:18:32 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Technically the negative mass you would have at the start of this process to have might be a problem. (Maybe that is what dark matter is.)

But since a photon moves at the speed of light, it must then weigh an infinite amount, no?

. . .



no, its massless, which is WHY it travels at the speed of light


Er, in order to make it fit into certain equations, they assign a photon 'relativistic mass.'

Certain things a photon does makes it function like it has mass.

But since one only ever travels at the speed of light . . .




OH, GAWD....particle wave dualities.......its like talking to a mirror, innit?


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:26:35 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Yes, the old question, is it a particle or a wave . . . ?

But we need to catch a photon and then weigh it to know for sure  . . .

I don't make any "hard" statements about physics, too much has been learned ant it is changing by the month too.And I had a minor in it at one time. From what I am seeing Einstein just started the journey.



(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:30:03 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Re: Are photons massless?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are two answers to this question. The theorist's answer is "yes, the photon is massless. Were it not, the elecric potential energy of a charged particle would vary like 1/re^(−mγr) instead of just 1/r, among other effects." The experimentalist's answer is "probably. Our best measurements of the photon's mass are consistent with 0 and the upper bound they set is 15 or 16 orders of magnitude smaller than any other known mass."

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 9/28/2011 11:31:20 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:30:13 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Just a question though, before we dismiss the whole thing. Even if it is just to be intrigued by the String possibilities, how much faith do you have that what we now know about how the universe works, is any sort of final answer?


We don't know the final answer. We never have known. We never will know (Godel). 'Knowing' (in the sense of having a complete consistent proven explanation of anything/everything) is forever beyond human potential and the limits of reason.

We have some pretty neat explanations that work most of the time. We ought to keep investigating. It keeps the boffins off the streets, out of trouble and gives them something to boff on about.

But people have always had 'pretty neat explanations that work most of the time'. Genesis 'worked' for a few millennia and look how shonky that is in the light of evidence available today.

There never will be a final answer. The best humans can do is a best available explanation - a cute narrative. IMHO we need to remember that a lot more than the details of the current best available explanation, no matter how charming or intriguing they are - a bit of modesty is becoming here.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/28/2011 11:35:46 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:40:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Yes, the old question, is it a particle or a wave . . . ?

But we need to catch a photon and then weigh it to know for sure  . . .

I don't make any "hard" statements about physics, too much has been learned ant it is changing by the month too.And I had a minor in it at one time. From what I am seeing Einstein just started the journey.






all electromagnetic spectrum (light by any other name, or music, or cookery or whatnot) is for all intents and purposes a wave. and a particle. and a floorwax. and a dessert topping. Mathematics is not a perfect dicipline. there is always (and even in particle physics a close enough for government work and the instruments we fuck with) thing going on, since 1/0 is impossible and undefined. but something very akin to that is what we are measuring here so we gotta plug in a little somethin somethin.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:50:04 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"That's one of the funniest things (though not the funniest thing) I've read all evening. :D "

OK funnypants. If light curves around a star because of gravitational effect(s), then that means that as it approaches the star it accelerates, either that or the star moves toward it. I'm betting on the former rather than the latter. If neither happens it breaks the laws of physics, the same laws these people are selling to the sheeple, which are not quite the real McCoy. You got a better theory ?

I'm glad you think this is amusing. Don't take this seriously, the favor has already been returned.

T^T


You missed the point! *LOL* I wasn't referring to the part about light bending. Will I have to say it outright? Or can you guess? :P

_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/28/2011 11:51:51 PM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Yes, the old question, is it a particle or a wave . . . ?

But we need to catch a photon and then weigh it to know for sure  . . .

I don't make any "hard" statements about physics, too much has been learned ant it is changing by the month too.And I had a minor in it at one time. From what I am seeing Einstein just started the journey.






all electromagnetic spectrum (light by any other name, or music, or cookery or whatnot) is for all intents and purposes a wave. and a particle. and a floorwax. and a dessert topping. Mathematics is not a perfect dicipline. there is always (and even in particle physics a close enough for government work and the instruments we fuck with) thing going on, since 1/0 is impossible and undefined. but something very akin to that is what we are measuring here so we gotta plug in a little somethin somethin.


It beats having to publicly fess up to how they just haven't got it quite right yet. Harder to get grants with the "we don't know how in hell the universe works" approach.

I still see the portrayals of atoms from the 1950s being shown about,. with the little electron balls in orbit around the nucleus.





(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit - 9/29/2011 12:01:13 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hey, dont fuck with that model. I am a child of he 70s!!! A BETTER LIFE THROUGH CHEMICALS!!!!!!



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Breaking the ultimate speed limit Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109