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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/29/2011 10:17:13 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

quote:

Really inept and inexperienced, this guy.

He might not be inexperienced but he was pretty inept.

*shrugs*

How so?

Firm

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/29/2011 10:54:00 PM

tweakabelle

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While Rumsfeld's ineptitude is definitely a known known, his competence, if the response to 9/11, and the organisation of Iraq and Afghanistan (epic fail/epic fail/epic fail) is anything to go by, is definitely an unknown unknown.

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 1:45:05 AM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Im not going to shit on his experience as a forces man...just his political bollocking up

Disagreeing about his policies is fine with me.

And, apologies, I got you a bit confused with DD, as you responded to my post to her.

Firm

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 6:06:48 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

While Rumsfeld's ineptitude is definitely a known known, his competence, if the response to 9/11, and the organisation of Iraq and Afghanistan (epic fail/epic fail/epic fail) is anything to go by, is definitely an unknown unknown.

Yes, I understand. Perfection based on total understanding and the grasp of all future possibilities is the only standard of "competence" that you will accept.

Firm

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 6:29:45 AM

farglebargle

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Well, that and not lying to us that Iraq was any sort of imminent threat to the United States.

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 6:46:34 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

While Rumsfeld's ineptitude is definitely a known known, his competence, if the response to 9/11, and the organisation of Iraq and Afghanistan (epic fail/epic fail/epic fail) is anything to go by, is definitely an unknown unknown.

Yes, I understand. Perfection based on total understanding and the grasp of all future possibilities is the only standard of "competence" that you will accept.

Firm

I thought I made the standard I was using to assess competence explicitly clear. As you seemed to have missed it, it's "if the response to 9/11, and the organisation of Iraq and Afghanistan (epic fail/epic fail/epic fail) is anything to go by".

Even though I spelt it out in black and white, it seems you felt a need to go off and invent some wholly imaginary standard to then falsely attribute to me.

Dream on.

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 6:56:59 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

While Rumsfeld's ineptitude is definitely a known known, his competence, if the response to 9/11, and the organisation of Iraq and Afghanistan (epic fail/epic fail/epic fail) is anything to go by, is definitely an unknown unknown.

Yes, I understand. Perfection based on total understanding and the grasp of all future possibilities is the only standard of "competence" that you will accept.

Firm

I thought I made the standard I was using to assess competence explicitly clear. As you seemed to have missed it, it's "if the response to 9/11, and the organisation of Iraq and Afghanistan (epic fail/epic fail/epic fail) is anything to go by".

Even though I spelt it out in black and white, it seems you felt a need to go off and invent some wholly imaginary standard to then falsely attribute to me.

Dream on.

I see nothing in your posts which would allow anyone to determine "competency" in any of the issues you raise.

Firm

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 7:00:07 AM

farglebargle

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Management Skill: FORECASTING

Performance Goal: Accurate forecasting

quote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2738089.stm

Friday, 7 February, 2003, 20:50 GMT
Rumsfeld foresees swift Iraq war

Mr Rumsfeld is in Europe to try to gain backing for possible military action against Iraq.

"It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," he said, speaking at the American air base at Aviano, in northern Italy.

Appraisal: Failed to meet performance goal. Inaccurate forecast causing billions in direct losses...

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 9/30/2011 7:01:41 AM >

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 7:38:21 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

“He’s one of the greatest Americans that has ever lived,” one woman said.

Wow. Now there is someone living in the land of illusion. He was one of the most inept defense secretaries ever. He had no military background and was completely wrong for the job.

I sympathize with those veterans. When I think of all of those who have been killed and wounded (including the Iraqi people) I am just sick about it. That war should never have happened.

I don't like the guy but that is simply untrue.

Donald Rumsfeld
Military service: US Navy (1954-57, Lieutenant)

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 8:07:47 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Im not going to shit on his experience as a forces man...just his political bollocking up

Speaking of bollocking up, though I only have a vague idea what that means, you need to return the ass pics.

Please?

Pretty Please?

Pretty, pretty please?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/30/2011 8:10:10 AM >

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 8:26:51 AM

Lucylastic

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Better?

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 8:29:28 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Better?

Much.

I just wish that was me under there.

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 9:15:07 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

quote:

Really inept and inexperienced, this guy.

He might not be inexperienced but he was pretty inept.

*shrugs*

How so?

Firm

His reorganization of the military.
The Rumsfeld doctrine
the fight with the CIA over armed Predators.
Approving torture.
The Iraq invasion plan that did not included securing weapon's dumps, international frontiers and cultural institutions.

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 10:11:03 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

quote:

Really inept and inexperienced, this guy.

He might not be inexperienced but he was pretty inept.

*shrugs*

How so?

His reorganization of the military.
The Rumsfeld doctrine
the fight with the CIA over armed Predators.
Approving torture.
The Iraq invasion plan that did not included securing weapon's dumps, international frontiers and cultural institutions.

So you disagree with them. This does not make him "inept".

Firm

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 10:26:01 AM

farglebargle

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No, he's inept because when you hold him to discrete, measurable performance goals ( i.e.: Estimates accurate to within +/- 5% ) he's a miserable failure.

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 9/30/2011 10:40:51 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

quote:

Really inept and inexperienced, this guy.

He might not be inexperienced but he was pretty inept.

*shrugs*

How so?

His reorganization of the military.
The Rumsfeld doctrine
the fight with the CIA over armed Predators.
Approving torture.
The Iraq invasion plan that did not included securing weapon's dumps, international frontiers and cultural institutions.

So you disagree with them. This does not make him "inept".

Firm

I don't disagree with him on all those points. He was just inept at all of them.

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 10/1/2011 8:44:25 PM

FirmhandKY

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FR:

Looking for DD.

Firm

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RE: Veterans attempt citizens arrest of Rummy - 10/1/2011 9:32:02 PM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

quote:

Really inept and inexperienced, this guy.

He might not be inexperienced but he was pretty inept.

*shrugs*

How so?

His reorganization of the military.
The Rumsfeld doctrine
the fight with the CIA over armed Predators.
Approving torture.
The Iraq invasion plan that did not included securing weapon's dumps, international frontiers and cultural institutions.

So you disagree with them. This does not make him "inept".

Firm

Inept: the word really doesn't even begin to encompass this level of ineptitude, every experienced commander was saying you needed more ground troops to maintain order in an operation like this - the result of Rumsfelds nickle and dimeing the operation so he could bring in planeloads of cash to bribe Iraqi officials.

It led to complete chaos, allowed AQ to move in a begin operations against American forces within a very short time frame - guys that even Saddam would have capped in the head and thrown in a ditch somewhere as soon as they showed their faces.

It was a total clusterfuck, they turned out a whole batch of "Prisoners" that turned out to be orphans, who promptly swallowed by the human trafficking network that likewise, sprouted, probably within hours of the invasion. Salvagers dismantled the entire electrical grid for the copper, stores and museums and hospitals were looted, while vastly undermanned and unprepared US troops could do nothing but stand and watch.

Shit, he ought to stand trail for that alone, if he had been a regular general, he'd have been courts martialed.

And it went on, and on, and on, we barely managed to get the situation under partial control after the "surge", which was basically closing the barndoor after the fucking cows were long gone.

This was one time when "go big or stay home" was the right approach, and everybody but Rumsfeld seems to have known that, even the generals think he's a fucking idiot.

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