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Falling Down - 10/2/2011 2:26:20 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		The title is derived from a 1993 movie, ostensibly tracing the breakdown of perhaps the ultimate Average Joe while taking a load of pot shots at the society we've created.  Two scenes come to mind just looking at the threads and the news headlines of the past few days. 

Not economically viable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX4b_rhT0nU&feature=related

and I want breakfast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eREiQhBDIk

Featured on yahoo this morning -

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/going-lot-worse-ecri-achuthan-says-recession-unavoidable-141929160.html
http://news.yahoo.com/700-arrested-protest-nys-brooklyn-bridge-030009188.html

Clinging to the bottom of the page is a 2.15% drop on Wall Street Friday.

We have stubbornly high unemployment, political parties wrangling for votes ahead of next year's election, a Supreme Court showdown occurring somewhere in the frenzy of next year's campaigns, a dysfunctional Congress, a deficit we can't get our arms around right next to an economy that won't move and we're running out of options. We have three military involvements at the moment, a population clinging to the edge of the chasm dividing left and right while the voices at the bottom scream louder and louder, a jobs vacuum that's sucking life out of local and state governments and has noticeably few bright spots even in the jobs that do return.

Confidence in government is at an all time low. Protesters are massing. Old folks are living on less and less since gas and groceries don't count when it comes to costs. Institutions, businesses and government are all looking at new ways to separate you from your money, if not in taxes, then in fees or charges.

There's a reason for that you know. In the entire cycle, there's only one entity that actually contributes to the pool, and that's you, the people. You pay the taxes. You buy the goods and services. Without you, no matter what government does, the entire thing collapses.

And winter is coming.

The question isn't at this point, are we falling down. We are and have been for a while. The question is, at this point in history, what will you DO. I could care less which side, which movement, which party you support with your words.

Will you attend a rally?

Will you write your political representatives?

Will you call your Congressman or Senator?

If it takes social or economic boycotts to get the message across, enough is enough, will you take part?

You already know what's important to you. If watching the endless finger pointing and blame games circle round and round in these forums teaches anything, it's that minds are pretty much already made up in an arena where it takes longer to list the differences than it does the similarities.

The question is, will you support your stance with money, time, and individual effort that goes beyond simply arguing points or reading blogs?

Decide, because the election cycle is just beginning and the animosity is going no where but up,


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--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain
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RE: Falling Down - 10/2/2011 6:31:44 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Stranger,

I'm hunkering down, and protecting the people I love.

When/if things do indeed "hit bottom", I intend to be part of the reconstruction.

In effect, we have an engine that is at red-line, being given more gas and it's likely to explode.  I want to be away from the blast radius so that I can help clean up, care for the wounded and rebuild afterwards.

Firm


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RE: Falling Down - 10/2/2011 7:41:43 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Occupy Pittsburgh... I cant wait!

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RE: Falling Down - 10/2/2011 7:49:33 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am the Gauleiter of Richville, MN. When the catyclism is visited upon us, this township shall be secure.

It is going to be very unamerican of me but it seems to me that our hobsons choice is self fulfilling failure.

We have the guys that are supposed to solve our problems insuring that they create ever increasing problems and when given any choice choose only themselves, and they are still the ones that are supposed to fix it.

fox chickencoop, chicken and fox.

There can be no true reform in a country of scoundrels. A fire at the Reichstag is the only way to undertake meaningful change.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/2/2011 7:50:54 AM >

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RE: Falling Down - 10/2/2011 8:02:44 AM   
StrangerThan


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Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Stranger,

I'm hunkering down, and protecting the people I love.

When/if things do indeed "hit bottom", I intend to be part of the reconstruction.

In effect, we have an engine that is at red-line, being given more gas and it's likely to explode.  I want to be away from the blast radius so that I can help clean up, care for the wounded and rebuild afterwards.

Firm



That should have been option 1 above, I guess. Of course, it was 2:30am on a night where I'd sworn to go monster hunting, where the five-year old and I reset the "monster cam" (trail cam) out near the trees we check every morning to ensure no monsters came visiting during the night, and where I know I need to get back in bed cause whether I'm ready to go in the morning or not, they will be.

So far the only monster we've found is me wandering out half asleep with her early in the morning to pull the sd card.

But yeah, security and subsistence shoulda been up there in the options.


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RE: Falling Down - 10/2/2011 7:13:18 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		It is interesting post to me. A few days ago I walked to work. I work for a company that is located at degraded East part of the city. When I reached work I talked to my co-worker asking if he has seen a movie "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas. Every person I met in my way was totally messed up (and the street was crowded). Neo-liberal corporate globalism does not work for many, poverty and hunger is increasing worldwide. What can you do about it? It is a systemic crisis. At, first one needs to understand the system and survive personally. Secondly, spread the knowledge and use your vote and a tiny amount of power left to push for a better, more fair system. 

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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 12:11:37 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I can let this all slide. It means nothing.

Do not ask my secret unless you are ready for it. You ain't.

But the fact is I am totally content and fine without all this. It really will not affect me. I got beer, guns and houses. It just doesn'rt matter at all. No mortgages, payments or any of that bullshit. And now that I stopped growing weed my electric bill ain't shit.

I simply don't care because I have no reason to care. The only thing I do care about is people, my people, my people here in fact. The rest of the world can go fuck itself because that's the only entertainment we can afford for them.

It's over, I only care about so much, your starving kids in Africa ? I'll shootem for a buck apiece, plus you supply the bullets,. Other than that they are your problem.

You starting to understand here ? I can't care about starving families of twelve in fucking Zimbabwe, or anywhere. If I did care it would be about people in my own country.

Fuck me.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 10/3/2011 12:15:08 AM >

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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 4:18:29 AM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		This is not uncommon peaceful state of mind, ready to die. I meet it occasionally, plus a lot of people are hypocrites. 

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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 6:17:01 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Stranger,

I'm hunkering down, and protecting the people I love.

When/if things do indeed "hit bottom", I intend to be part of the reconstruction.

In effect, we have an engine that is at red-line, being given more gas and it's likely to explode.  I want to be away from the blast radius so that I can help clean up, care for the wounded and rebuild afterwards.

Firm



Thing is, there have always been discontents, conspiracy nuts, survivalist types, and the occasional enclave that separates itself from society until the feds figure out a reason to raid them. What makes this place in time unique is that so many people are angry, so many disillusioned, so many feeling disenfranchised, so many ready to just say fuck it, so many looking for someone to blame, and we're running out of options in both economic terms and social terms. 

What is becoming clear to many Americans is that our system is broken. I mean I hear that feeling voiced every where I go, north to south, east to well, mid west. I haven't been to the west coast in maybe 4 or 5 years.  Obama ran on hope and change. What I've been hearing for the last few months had little to do with hope, and a lot to do with change. Problem is, there is no clear path of change, meaning separate paths with different results, and change being a word that acts like an all-encompassing veil.

You wrote a thread not long ago talking about a deep and structural change. We need one. The question is can we survive one?

Dunno, but it is an interesting time to be alive.



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--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 7:53:51 AM   
SternSkipper


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Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

Protesters are massing. Old folks are living on less and less


Yesterday, I helped to elderly men, a WWII and a Korean War vet set camp in Dewey sq. Frankly I was real concerned because the older one Vinny, well he's 80s action and doesn't look to hot, whereas the Korean Vet was one of these guys who'd gotten the low fat plenty of exercise message after a minor heart issue and could probably do more push-ups than me.
    I expressed my concerns about Vinny to John, the KW vet. And he put it this way, he kinda put himself between me and his buddy and said in a low voice "I'll drag Vinny back home when it gets chilly. But we're not here for anybody's sympathy and I do appreciate what you're saying son". I made apologies for being presumptive and he grabbed my arm and said "Look, that building over there is the Postal Annex. I worked there from about 4 months after I got a forced retirement 8 years ago. No health problem, it was regulations. When I stepped out on the street and saw just how wrong things were for the first time, I was just shocked. I never had to apply for a loan outside the GI Bill and I watched a son-in-law put a noose around his neck with a nasty mortgage with some loan company fronting for a German bank. The kid worked from high school on, built a great career as a machinist, served his country, the whole package. They told him he had no credit history when he went to refinance his house to pay for the cancer treatments Pilgrim wouldn't approve. My daughter's alright, but they're paying they don't lose the house now because the mortgage is 2/3 of what they make" For a large part that's why I am here. That and if they turn the troops on these people I want to serve my country one more time before I'm too feeble".
   I can't help feeling "this is fucking dark" when I look into these people's eyes and see their conviction.  there's a resolve I haven't seen in so-called protest movements and marches. I donm't think this will dead end. maybe they'll disburse these people. But the resentment is fomenting and guys who fancy themselves as as pontificates or the wiser head as in these forums clearly haven't been paying attention as a tide rose. Not their fault... fox didn't cover it. But somehow, many millions managed to glean enough information to show up for (and that's despite the other networks not reporting either). And all around those people are folks engineering their own way into the project in creative ways that constantly surprise me. You want to talk about Yankee Ingenuity? This is it in action.
Certainly no something the armchair politico will get. They'll still be mistaking people for 'hippies', and cat calling when it marches right past door (figuratively).
    I really like this post. It really is time to put up or shut the fuck up. And it's funny... in my coffee-less fog i wandered in thinking mostly about a Govt mule tune called "Falling Down"


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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 11:00:21 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		Skip, there's more than one tide. I mean hell, you're a man of the sea I reckon. You know the kind of water that exists where current and wind collide, or two currents run head on into each other.

It's like... the Pamelico Sound, described in storm conditions as "the washing machine."




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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 1:46:29 PM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

Protesters are massing. Old folks are living on less and less since gas and groceries don't count when it comes to costs.



If I may be allowed ... 

Old folks are living on less and less also because their retirement has been eviscerated by the resultant of their funds being half-way wiped out by runaway deregulation that allowed self-destruction of financial markets to such extent as to wreck everything else. When you see your retirement mutual fund being reduced month by month, year after year, there is no "political debate," no philisophical aspect to it whatsoever. Numbers don't lie. Nor do the R/L experiences of those closest to to me. People having to do short sales on their house 5-15 years after retirement, if lucky, being foreclosed if not so lucky, after working 40-50 years ...


There is a reason I don't own a gun.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/3/2011 2:04:34 PM >

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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 2:14:23 PM   
Edwynn


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~FR~


I've already given at least 20-30 links to this crap in numerous posts prior, but honestly, if people cannot even trouble themselves to dig into the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act or the "Comodity Futures Modernization Act" and the subterfuge behind all of it, I don't know what to tell you.

You either have to actually want to learn something real or you do not.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/3/2011 2:42:14 PM >

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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 3:20:42 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		It all goes back to the monetary system and the country being sold out in the new deal to the highest bidder.

When people get a clue that this is a trruly feudal fucking society and the brits have more "real" rights than we do I cant imagine the shit not hitting the fan in a really big way.

When you have ex attorney generals trying to get rico case into court again ALL the california judges and holder siting on it you know or should at least have a clue we are in seriously bad shape and the deMOBcracy is in full gubafia operation.



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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 4:59:52 PM   
StrangerThan


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Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

It all goes back to the monetary system and the country being sold out in the new deal to the highest bidder.

When people get a clue that this is a trruly feudal fucking society and the brits have more "real" rights than we do I cant imagine the shit not hitting the fan in a really big way.

When you have ex attorney generals trying to get rico case into court again ALL the california judges and holder siting on it you know or should at least have a clue we are in seriously bad shape and the deMOBcracy is in full gubafia operation.




That's the issue RO. People are getting a clue, about a lot of things. The question is, what will you DO? We are at a point in history where a difference can be made. What that difference will be, I don't know. Everyone out there has a different stake and looks to a different outcome for their slice of pie in the sky.

It is not going to let up either, not with elections coming. The real antagonistic, finger pointing bs won't start until Republicans settle on a candidate. Then it will be, the same mumbo-jumbo that's haunted every other election in my memory. It is coming. They want you focused on each other, not on them, cause they cannot stand the scrutiny.

Like Skipper said, it's time to put up or shut up. Get involved dude. I don't care with which side, which branch, which trend of thought. 


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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 8:39:33 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

This is not uncommon peaceful state of mind, ready to die. I meet it occasionally, plus a lot of people are hypocrites. 


Congrats for those thinking that Fellow might be on the wrong end of it sometimes, but I cannot count myself among them.

People have forgotten lessons learned 30-40 years ago, for those some paying attention then, much fewer now.

I have my survival skills in place, but what Fellow says above is 1,000 times more important.

One of the few I would seek out, if the worst were to happen.







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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 9:42:43 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"There is a reason I don't own a gun."

Sounds like about the same reason that I do.

My last post didn't sound too nice, there is a very good reason for that. Y'know, it's not like I don't care about anyone at all, but I know who I care about first. Hunkering down is the name of the game, no major purcheses, eliminate debt, pay everything off. And I am liquidating a bunch of stuff and "we" are going to take up less space.

I have a very significant investment in tools and machines and it is time for them to pay off. Now if you're talking about society, well when the shit really starts hitting the fan I guess I won't have to pick sides as I already have. When the shit goes down, if you see me coming DO NOT be wearing a suit and tie or any other kind of uniform. Nuff said.

I am pleased that people are taking it to the streets, and I hope the thing goes ballistic. It's about time. Things are always the worst they've ever been and it is time to stop. The ballot box is not going to do it. I've been saying it for decades and now people are waking up, and now the bloodbath is coming. I just hope it isn't too late.

I see a future with American suicide bombers and the like, McVeighs under every rock. I see a future in which the government fears the People, which is as it should be. There is only one way for that to happen folks.

It's going to wreck the place, there will be a deceased standard of living for everyone, but that is coming anyway. There will be no credit, there will be alot of crime and the police will be impotent.

I just hope it's not too late. Unfortunatley the end result will probably be a socialistic society, but that's what everything seems to degrade into as populations become bloated and soft. An anaethma for some of us, but we are dying off. So in my last days I might not do alot of good, but I will take some assholes out, believe me. Please tell me I only have a month to live or some shit. I'll do a driveby from NY to DC.

I might not be much help in building the new, but I think I can be of some help tearing down the old. And that is what is needed.

T^T

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RE: Falling Down - 10/3/2011 11:07:14 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:


It's like... the Pamelico Sound, described in storm conditions as "the washing machine.


No shit there's more than one tide... but I gotta concentrate on the one I face into and that one is on it's best behavior up in Boston. And while that could change the cops I've talked to aren't terribly inclined to go up against citizens they see as having a legitimate gripe. And that's pretty much how they're seeing it right now I think. Here's the deal though... the nay sayers are making out like this is all kids and 'hippies' like they would know a fucking hippie if it ran em over in a volkswagon bus ...IT'S NOT I'm 52 years old professional. there was a VERY LARGE MIDDLE AGED DEMOGRAPHIC there there were a lot of women there who are single moms also... it's like America in terms of the demographic... with maybe not quite as many old people. But even they were there in countable numbers ...  All I know is it's better to take this up than to sit around pissing on people.
  You're talking about down in  the carolinas right? That's where all the pirate wrecks are and shit if I remember correctly... I've been by the outside a number of times, probably never to close to the barrier islands though... don't like em.And I haven't been real big on sailing what we always called 'stupid water' growing up.



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RE: Falling Down - 10/4/2011 7:04:53 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		Stupid water it is, especially for the deep keeled crowd. Even on good days though, with two major river systems pouring into the western side, you can run across that odd feeling as if the water shrugged and just picked you up and moved you over a few feet.

The washing machine effect is a good analogy for the country right now though, at least to me. The forces driving us stem from a deep discontent over the economy, the growing distance between classes, between left and right ideologies, and for many, just trying to survive. There are a lot of people angry, and angry over different things. If that's not enough, the political types are going to wind that up in the coming months, and the drum is already pretty damned tight.


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