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Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 1:24:41 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
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Accepting that superficial external characteristics drive us to separate mankind in arbitrary groups we call "races" (although the exact division and its justification tends to be rather arbitrary or historically grown1)...
Accepting, only on the context of this post, that such concept not so damaging as useful (and this is a quite risky supposition, so "better don't separate at all" is a valid answer)...

How the heck should you call the people who are... who... ehm... who have a skin color and external characteristics, which are very widespread in Africa southwards the Sahara dessert? For example, in the sentence "A disproportional percentage of the inmates in South-African prisons is ....", where you HAVE to use a name for the group to point to a societal problem.
  • Blacks? is my favorite, as it is an approximation. A "big guy" is tiny compared to a mountain, but for a human being, he is big. A black man is dark brown compared to RGB color #000000, but is till rather black for a human.
  • Southsaharian African? At least is geographically good, but for population an approximation, people quite different were ruling South Africa some decades ago. It has another problem... if we attend to recent origin, it is ok, but not if we attend to remote origin (then, we all are Southsaharian Africans) or current widespread.
  • African? From Marrocco to Egypt, you will find other colors skins and external characteristics to be more common.
  • African-American? Same as above (an Egyptian immigrant in the USA is technically African-American) plus not all people with this color live in America. President Mbeki of South Africa is NOT African-American (even if Fox News once presented him as such).
  • Negro? Nigg**? In principle, not bad, as it attends the same criteria as "Black", and some of them call each other such words, but I have the impression these words were wasted by their use as insults (a strange phenomenon - in Spanish for example, "negro" is absolutely not insulting, is simply descriptive, as "blanco").
  • Blackie? "boy" (for 60's year olds too)? Well, that's insulting from a more objective perspective.
  • Curly-hairs? Wide-noses? Don't laugh, we do not have to concentrate necessarily on the skin color, and *everything* will always be an approximation. But the tutsi, for example, have thin noses in general...
I am sincerely interested on your opinions. Please tell us somewhere if you belong to this group or not, to help me evaluate.

As myself, I do not (although I am sure that SOME of that blood will run in my veins, there were many waves of Muslim invaders in Spain in the Middle Age, and I am sure that some of them were mixed with ... with... with that people I am mentioning.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) "historically grown" is SW-Developers slang for "completely absurd".

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 10/4/2011 1:36:19 AM >
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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 1:31:13 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline 		Here's a clue...I think anyone, regardless of their skin colour, would prefer to be called by their freakin' name!!!!!

Just FYI, this post is completely racist. It will be reported.

< Message edited by DeviantlyD -- 10/4/2011 1:32:40 AM >

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 1:43:12 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Here's a clue...I think anyone, regardless of their skin colour, would prefer to be called by their freakin' name!!!!!

Just FYI, this post is completely racist. It will be reported.

I made the mistake to un-hide you to read the answer. I won't make it again.
I hope there are punishments for reporting intentionally a valid posting. My posting is absolutely not racist at all.
And you cannot use the name when you refer to 43.034.203 people, for example in statistics of a country, you are being just annoying for the sake of it.
Bye.

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:09:15 AM   
Kirata


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I just want to be the first to wave "bye bye" before this gets tossed.

K.

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:10:02 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Here's a clue...I think anyone, regardless of their skin colour, would prefer to be called by their freakin' name!!!!!

Just FYI, this post is completely racist. It will be reported.



Gaspsssssssss...........man boobs..........

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:14:06 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

I made the mistake to un-hide you to read the answer. I won't make it again.
I hope there are punishments for reporting intentionally a valid posting. My posting is absolutely not racist at all.
And you cannot use the name when you refer to 43.034.203 people, for example in statistics of a country, you are being just annoying for the sake of it.
Bye.




The option of reporting a post for whatever reason is exactly that, an option. It is then down to the admin to decide on the content of a post.

Whether your post is racist or not is subjective, not as you see it, vindictive. Personally I feel your OP is dubious, but thats just me.

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:32:47 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Gaspsssssssss...........man boobs..........


Nope! Those are woman boobies. :)

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:38:56 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Gaspsssssssss...........man boobs..........


Nope! Those are woman boobies. :)



I cant just take your word for it. I need to do some errr.....research.

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:42:40 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline 		Polite:

An option? Of course, as it is also an option of the admins to punish intentionally wrong reportings.

"This post is completely racist"is as vindictive as my sentence, I am a bit surprised that you refer only to mine... i consider that everything in communication is subjective (2+2 is not 4 but 10 in a 3-based system) but this does not prevent people of saying things like "is completely racist" or "absolutely not racist at all".

Racism is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" (Merrian-Webster). Can you tell me exactly which superiority of which race may be derived from my posting, and based on which text? I find none at all, and this is the reason why I consider that this posting cannot possibly be racist.

If possible, all, please stick to the subject...


< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 10/4/2011 2:47:57 AM >

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:47:14 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Gaspsssssssss...........man boobs..........


Nope! Those are woman boobies. :)



I cant just take your word for it. I need to do some errr.....research.


Oh man, I walked into that one! :D

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:49:59 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I was talking about the subject, which was your OP.

I get the impression those you consider "on topic" will also be those that agree with you.

I also get the impression more people tahn not, will consider your post racist.

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:51:04 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Gaspsssssssss...........man boobs..........


Nope! Those are woman boobies. :)



I cant just take your word for it. I need to do some errr.....research.


Oh man, I walked into that one! :D



My arms are always open for you......

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 2:58:17 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I was talking about the subject, which was your OP.
I get the impression those you consider "on topic" will also be those that agree with you.
I also get the impression more people tahn not, will consider your post racist.

1. is not true for your next message.
2. is not justified and aggressive.
3. is not justified, and I would like to know why. Really.
Best regards.

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 3:02:00 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Oh man, I walked into that one! :D



My arms are always open for you......


For me? Or my boobs? :P

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ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 3:05:57 AM   
invisiblus


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline 		It will help you to understand it better if you ask the same question for Europe. You can see many different shades of skin color among European countries. A Fin's tone of skin color is not same as a Frenchman, and Spanish people don't share the exact skin color with German's.. Examples are countless.

Now trying to answer following questions will help you to make up your mind on the subject.

You are a Spanish person. Spanish people have darker skin than most other Caucasians, but lighter skin color than lets say Africans. How would you categorize yourself? Are you a caucasian? What makes you a caucasian while your skin color is relatively darker when compared to Germanic, and Slavic people?

Let's say you are going to refer French prisoners in a Norwegian prison. It is very likely that French prisoners will have relatively darker skin color than Norwegian inmates. Would you refer them by their skin color? Origin of the country? or which reference point would you use?

Instead of trying to solve the questions in your mind over examples that are not really related to you, use yourself as an example and start answering your own questions from there. You will come up with healthier answers.

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 3:08:30 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

For me? Or my boobs? :P


I assumed I would get the total package, and not just parts in the post ( Thats English for mail ).. lol

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 3:12:16 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		You are no master!
mons

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 3:13:54 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

3. is not justified, and I would like to know why. Really.
Best regards.



"Accepting, only on the context of this post, that such concept not so damaging as useful"

So, in the context only of your post, suggesting the seperation of people by race is, in my opinion and I suspect that of others, racist.

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 3:19:21 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

3. is not justified, and I would like to know why. Really.
Best regards.



"Accepting, only on the context of this post, that such concept not so damaging as useful"

So, in the context only of your post, suggesting the seperation of people by race is, in my opinion and I suspect that of others, racist.

Thank you, from the heart, but how possibly accepting that using a concept to divide the population (not physically separate), accomplishes the definition of racism of the Merrian-Webster?

Imagine that i want to study the effect or racism in the social-economical structure of a country. Is it racist if I divide the population on "races" to seek if, for example, a [put a race name here] has extraordinary problems for getting a job?

PS: By other side, then you are saying that the site is racist? Because in the site collarme.com, they GIVE the opportunity to say you "Ethnicity". Or is the name "race" which disturbs you?


< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 10/4/2011 3:27:12 AM >

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RE: Race and skin color. - 10/4/2011 3:25:33 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: invisiblus

It will help you to understand it better if you ask the same question for Europe. You can see many different shades of skin color among European countries. A Fin's tone of skin color is not same as a Frenchman, and Spanish people don't share the exact skin color with German's.. Examples are countless.

Now trying to answer following questions will help you to make up your mind on the subject.

You are a Spanish person. Spanish people have darker skin than most other Caucasians, but lighter skin color than lets say Africans. How would you categorize yourself? Are you a caucasian? What makes you a caucasian while your skin color is relatively darker when compared to Germanic, and Slavic people?

Let's say you are going to refer French prisoners in a Norwegian prison. It is very likely that French prisoners will have relatively darker skin color than Norwegian inmates. Would you refer them by their skin color? Origin of the country? or which reference point would you use?

Instead of trying to solve the questions in your mind over examples that are not really related to you, use yourself as an example and start answering your own questions from there. You will come up with healthier answers.

Thank you for your posting. I did not come to any answer, but I will try what you say...

I am Spaniard. If you divide the groups of population, for example, to study the impact of racism, or to study the colors you must use in baby puppets to reflect the population (you cannot use infinite colors, the production forces you to simplify), then you have to simplify.

In that context, a "south-european" puppet and a "north European" puppet would be good ideas. But if you only have four colors to choose, then I would group both in an "european" puppet and make the others similar to a Nigerian, a Chinese and an Indian person. Guessing now that I have to sell puppets to the whole world, that is. I would ignore the Latin-american (and I was born in Chile from Latin-american parents) because (a) some are similar to European babies and (b) others are similar to Indian babies. If I can have five models, I would introduce them. If I have six, I would introduce Indonesian and move the Indian to Arab. And so on.

I would not call myself "Causasian", I consider this name ambiguous and problematic (in Russia it means something pretty different, and there is a problem of racism against those people), and still, the site itself forced me to do it because there is no "South European" Ethnicity. BTW... do you consider the site racist for dividing humans in such groups?

Now - how does this resolve the problem?

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 10/4/2011 3:29:08 AM >

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