Premeditated murder or an accident??

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Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/4/2011 4:31:29 PM

erieangel

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I'm not sure I'm liking where our criminal courts are going when prosecutors are so gung-ho on sending a child to prison for life.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-06-02/story/jacksonville-12-year-old-charged-first-degree-murder-brother

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/4/2011 4:41:57 PM

Politesub53

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Life without parole seems harsh for someone so young. The question would be, at what age is a child considered responsible for his own actions. The next question would be can he plead diminished responsibility. Whatever else it seems like he had beaten the todler before, so there has to be some sort of murder/manslaughter charge.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/4/2011 5:02:41 PM

Lucylastic

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what a sad horrid tale
mean kids are mean kids and while there may be a kajillion reasons behind it, the younger people he will come into contact with need looking out for. tough one, I see the need for punishment and a lot of therapy/reprogramming.But I dont know enough details to go beyond that.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/4/2011 5:38:18 PM

erieangel

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There was also on Alternet about this, but that site is decidedly far left-leaning. That story placed most of the blame on the mother because she left the kids alone even after the 12-year old had broken his brother's leg.

I admit it is a tale and not the first time a FL child has been charged as an adult. At 12, a child can't even consent to sex, but can held responsible to know the difference of right and wrong even if never having been taught the difference at home?

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/4/2011 5:45:53 PM

Lucylastic

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I read the mother was only 12 when she had the boy. theres a hundred problems right there.
Im not putting blame on anyone, again, left leaning info or not, I know better than to take situations like that at face value. BTW that is not a call on YOU< its just my "experience" with regard to "behind the scenes reality" kicking in.
Its a horrible situation and unfortunately there aren't enough resources out there to be able to put this family back together mentally, notwithstanding the fact that the toddler is gone:(

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/4/2011 8:13:21 PM

Fightdirecto

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The scariest thing, IMO, in the article wasn't about this kid. It was this:

quote:

Before Fernandez's indictment, the youngest person charged with a Jacksonville homicide was 13-year-old Thomas Thompson. He was convicted and sentenced to life in 1994 for shooting an off-duty corrections officer, Tammy Jo Johnson, to death in a robbery outside a Westside bar.

A 13-year-old shooting an off-duty law enforcement officer during the commission of a robbery outside a bar?

That, to me, is far more frightening.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/4/2011 8:43:40 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

I'm not sure I'm liking where our criminal courts are going when prosecutors are so gung-ho on sending a child to prison for life.

Can a life sentence visited upon a minor be reviewed when they reach age of majority?
One time a long time ago, like when I was a teenager. There was a kid who was horribly abused by his father and in turn killed his younger sister (might have been a sexual component too) and I honestly can't remember if it was RI CT or Mass... But I seem to remember the kid getting life and my Dad saying the judge had done so to keep him from ever being returned to the father as he had apparently gotten off scott free. That particular kid was released ... gotta wonder when you read the Mom was like 12 when he was born.... It's awful, no matter how you look at it.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/4/2011 11:11:01 PM

Termyn8or

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FR

Kill.

You see objectivity works both ways. It can be explained to you why someone would do this in terms you can understand, but then if you experienced it in their life, it owuld be different.

I have no animosity for killers anymore, only for bankers and politicians. I could be buddies with McVeigh, because he did what he thought was right, and when more people do that you will see that whether he was right or wrong and that at least he did what he thought was right. Your fucking leaders do what they KNOW is wrong, and as such will never incur my favor. What that matters is anyone's guess.........

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 12:02:05 AM

DeviantlyD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Kill.

You see objectivity works both ways. It can be explained to you why someone would do this in terms you can understand, but then if you experienced it in their life, it owuld be different.

I have no animosity for killers anymore, only for bankers and politicians. I could be buddies with McVeigh, because he did what he thought was right, and when more people do that you will see that whether he was right or wrong and that at least he did what he thought was right. Your fucking leaders do what they KNOW is wrong, and as such will never incur my favor. What that matters is anyone's guess.........

T^T

Oh come on, McVeigh knew what he was doing was wrong.

A child of the age this kid is also knows right from from, unless he's a sociopath, which I suspect he might possibly be. I agree with Lucylastic...this kid needs a lot of help. It's sad to think of a child being locked up for life, but maybe it's best to keep him away from society until he can be helped...if possible.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 12:43:18 AM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

A child of the age this kid is also knows right from from, unless he's a sociopath, which I suspect he might possibly be. I agree with Lucylastic...this kid needs a lot of help. It's sad to think of a child being locked up for life, but maybe it's best to keep him away from society until he can be helped...if possible.

At 12, the boy certainly knows right from wrong. Even if not taught at home, he probably went to school, and they teach it there to. A sociopath knows right from wrong, they just don't care.

What I'm sure will be all over the Florida papers, if not the internet, and I'm sure part of the defense for him AND his mother will be that the system "failed" them. She had a child at 12, so probably had TANF and medicaid. She no doubt has met more than her fair share of social workers in her short life. She has other children that are now in protective custody. So no doubt this boy comes from a severely dysfunctional home. Still he willfully beat a two year old child. Even without the toddler dying, this is a serious problem. He is obviously the oldest child, how many kids does this woman, who is only 25 have?

Sorry (this isn't to you specifically DD), but I don't buy into the "poor kid, we can't blame him," mentality. It is that mentality that has the US in the position it is with kids today. There is always some kind of "twinkie defense" that says "it wasn't my fault I committed this heinous crime, it was because of..." Fill in the blank, from having a horrible childhood, to being bi-polar, having PMS, whatever. People have to be responsible for what they do, even at 12. If he had shoplifted, would anyone be saying, "poor kid didn't know right from wrong?" Nope, everyone would say he deserved punishment.

His mother, who knew what her oldest child was doing, and is also charged should receive worse punishment. I don't care about all the bleeding heart bullshit about her being a disadvantaged immigrant. She lied when the boy broke his brother's leg and didn't bother to take him to the hospital for two day. The medical report states that had she sought immediate medical care when she came home and found him like that, there is a chance he wouldn't have died. Both times her baby was injured, she lied to everyone involved and said she was home, in another room. Later admits she was out. Someone rip out her uterus and make sure she doesn't ever get knocked up again. It is pathetic.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 12:55:20 AM

DeviantlyD

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I agree with you LafayetteLady...but no matter what the situation, just the idea that a child is in this situation is sad. I don't align that thought with the idea of "poor kid, we can't blame him", because clearly the murder of a two year old child cannot be excused.

I think what you are saying, and I have to agree, is that more and more we see (particularly in these situations) a lack of personal responsibility (in this case, the mother's). People need to accept responsibility for their own actions and realize the "poor pitiful me" routine just doesn't fly.

I'd say more, but it's late...and I just can't articulate my thoughts distinctly. Blah. Time for bed!

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 12:55:58 AM

popeye1250

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What are you going to do?
These are; "The Obama Times."

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 1:01:01 AM

LafayetteLady

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Yes that is pretty much what I'm saying. And his public defender (which he will likely have) will trot out some diminished capacity defense. Now that I think about it, there is an excellent public defender down in Pinnellas county in Clearwater Courthouse. He must be chomping at the bit wishing he were north and could have this case. Sadly, if he did, justice wouldn't be served, because my friend is really very good and chooses to stay in the Public Defender's office. Pension is vested, he could hang a shingle anytime and have plenty of clients.

Oops, my turn to digress. Took both pain AND anxiety medication. Who knew it mae me ramble senselessly like that, hee hee.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 1:18:31 AM

DeviantlyD

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I know this is off topic....but I can't help say it...I know someone in Clearwater...that town (or the county it's in) keeps coming up lately...kind of odd. *ponder ponder*

Anxiety medication can be wonderful stuff! I took someone else's when I was in school stressing out majorly over an exam. Wow, did it ever help me de-stress! And I thought it would be a good idea to take one prior to sitting the exam. Boy did I bomb it bad! *LMAO* I got the lowest grade in the class. Live and learn...amongst other things, don't take someone else's meds. ;)

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 1:29:57 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

What are you going to do?
These are; "The Obama Times."

Christopher Frank Pittman (born April 9, 1989 in Florida) was convicted in 2005 of murdering his grandparents, Joe and Joy Pittman, at age 12, in November of 2001. The case drew national attention in part because of his age at the time of the crime and in part because his defense that the prescription drug Zoloft caused him to act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Pittman

And, yes, he was tried and convicted as an adult

What are you going to do?
This was the "Bush Times"

keep the partisan bullshit out of this.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 10/5/2011 1:31:36 AM >

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 3:33:34 AM

erieangel

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See, that's what bothers me about this case; its almost as if FL prosecutors get a hard on about trying children as adults. All of these kids need help, they ain't gonna get it in an adult prison.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 3:38:08 AM

DeviantlyD

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It's my understanding that convicted minors are kept in juvenile detention until they reach 18 years of age. So if he is convicted, he may be with older kids, but not adults.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 6:09:48 AM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

See, that's what bothers me about this case; its almost as if FL prosecutors get a hard on about trying children as adults.

Or FL prosecutors see beating to death your little brother as more serious than, "delinquency," which is what Juvenile Courts are set up to handle.

Such a little scamp for fracturing a toddlers skull.

But maybe those mean ol' officers should have just let him off with a warning.

quote:

All of these kids need help, they ain't gonna get it in an adult prison.

They go to a juvenile detention center until they reach the age of majority.

Need help? Possibly. I am not convinced that it would be a kindness to rehabilitate him.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 7:23:39 AM

kalikshama

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Thank you.

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RE: Premeditated murder or an accident?? - 10/5/2011 7:30:04 AM

kalikshama

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The mother "is charged with aggravated manslaughter by culpable negligence and is scheduled to go to trial in September."

Here's more recent stories:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-09-16/story/whos-blame-complicated-cristian-fernandezs-mom-says-younger-sons-death

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-09-14/story/cristian-fernandez-case-someone-surfed-internet-tots-life-was-slipping

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-08-31/story/cristian-fernandezs-mom-responds-t-u-letter

But Susana said in her letter that state officials knew of troubles in her home, following her move to Jacksonville months after her husband committed suicide in front of some of the family. Police were on the way to arrest the man for abusing Cristian when it happened.

Even still, Susana said officials from the Department of Children and Families put Cristian and her other children on a waiting list for therapy. The counseling and child care help they promised never came, she wrote.

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 10/5/2011 7:37:59 AM >

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